Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Slugger out and about for ‘Orangefest’
I have no idea how this one will work out but I’m intending to head to an 11th night bonfire and 12th parade this year (held on the 13th I understand). I’ll be bringing my baggage along with as open a mind as I can muster and intend blogging on the days, with maybe some twittering, as things progress. I’ve already had two offers of escort and help explaining any confusing aspects from a tweet.
What I’d now like to know is do other Slugger folks fancy joining up for the day? Republicans looking to challenge themselves? People that just haven’t been before? People willing to guide others through events and hold their hands if they get nervous?
Ideas of what to do, joining up and offers of assistance all welcome.
btw: this isn’t intended as a ‘One Small Step’ type thing, I’m as happy to come away with prejudices reinforced as reconsidered.
UPDATE: after speaking to Mick we will be running a live blog via Cover-it-Live - participants, supporters, demonstrators, the just pure apathetic and Slugger readers that get along to where ever for however long for whatever reason will be able to add their views.
Mark McGregor @ 05:29 PM
“I’ll be bringing my baggage along with as open a mind as I can muster”
So that will be hand luggage only, Mark? ;)
PS See if you can spot the British and Irish civil servants from the BIIC Joint Secretariat. Those pin stripe suits tend to stand out in crowds of Orange Lil clones. :)
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 06:42 PMWe “did” orangefest last year - I’m half sorry top be out of the country over the Twelfth this year, as I’d quite like to see how it’s different this year.
You can still catch some of the observations at http://alaninbelfast.blogspot.com/search/label/orangefest ...
Also worth noting that experience in Belfast would be quite different to other towns and particularly more rural areas.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 06:50 PMDo you not think it’s a bit late in the day for you to be exploring things at first hand, given the amount of comments you have already made?
Wouldn’t it be better to do research first. Well, that’s what I do, and keep an open mind before I do it, thereby avoiding having prejudices to be “reinforced or reconsidered” BEFORE I pontificate.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 06:51 PMAlso, Mark, it would be much better to attend more than ONE bonfire and ONE parade before reporting in. Otherwise, the research would be merely (preliminary) impressions, if that. No?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 06:55 PMEddie,
Could that be done while still getting a feel for the continuity of the day most experience? I’m happy to consider the idea of going to more than one of each thing - though that would require more than one ‘guide’ or one wiling to move about.
Of course I’ll be researching the topic before attending but I’m not a great one for book learning over experience.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:04 PMMark - in all honesty you’d need to do more than “consider” going to more than one bonfire or one parade before I, for one, would give any credibility to any possible “reinforcement” or “reconsideration” of your prejudices, if your piece is to be definitive.
But that could take a year or two, or maybe a lot of travelling over one very busy weekend. If you can’t do that, well, let’s have your reactions anyway - though these will be just impressions.
It would help, though, if you could tell us now in advance what your existing prejudices are, so we can compare before and after.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:15 PMDundrum would be an illuminating (sorry) throwback to oul’ times as it is held in the middle of a mixed religon housing estate where catholics have to put the shutters up early doors and hope for the best..
In Belfast, why not try Taughmonagh as a fair smattering of clandestine Malone Road Prods slum it for the night with the orange trash neighbours ?The blow-ins are easily spotted as they invariably quaff wine and quackers but bugger off back to civilisation before Jackie’s ‘army’ go mental on the buckfast, start the duelling banjos contest and finish up by dissing Big Ian (a new entry at number 1), Big Gerry and The Holy Father.Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:20 PMEddie,
I’m an agnostic, Irish socialist, republican. My prejudices are that everything it seems to represent is both hostile to and the antithesis of what I value. I think of it as a threatening demonstration against what I believe in and see it as nothing more than base sectarian quasi-religious triumphalism.
Should be an easy job to have me walk away with a less negative view as I can’t imagine what would make me have a worse one.
I can’t as you suggest get to numerous events. I’ll within limits and guidance from those helping out do my best to get a feel for something completely alien.
You going to offer to be one of the guides? Or just complain?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:25 PMMark, I’m an agnostic non-Republican and I can understand your prejudices and it’s praiseworthy that you want to explore the subject - though I don’t think you can do it through one bonfire and one parade. That was the point I was making to you; I wasn’t complaining
Lemme tell you - some orangemen are worse than you think; and some are better than you think. Me, I won’t be near any bonfire or parade.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:31 PM.......an’ get your mammy to press your celtic shirt. Don’t want to let the side down.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:39 PMEddie,
Via some people that have no reason to help out it looks like I’m going to get to a family bonfire and a more rowdy one, the Belfast parade and a rural one. Still deciding on which field I head to. Best I can do. Still hoping others will give the idea a go. I’m only really doing it in expectation of free booze for the ‘mad fenian’!
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:50 PM‘I’m only really doing it in expectation of free booze for the ‘mad fenian’
Careful ‘themmuns’ don’t soak you in booze and throw you on the boney, Mark. You’ll end up like Edward Woodward on The Wicker Man..
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 07:59 PMposted by Kathy C
I think going to an orange order bonfire is like going to a KKK cross burning….both are celebrations of hate….
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 08:02 PMThe bonfires have nothing to do with Orangefest, so it would be quite inappropriate to consider the activities there as being part of Orangefest.
I, personally, have not attended a bonfire for many years because of the widespread teenage drunkenness associated with it, but I reckon that a few ‘narrow-eyed’, green and white hoop-shirted left-footers should help liven things up a little! :-)
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 08:07 PM“I think going to an orange order bonfire is like going to a KKK cross burning….both are celebrations of hate…. “
Who really cares….....
but i must say that your country is doing really well in world relations at the minute Iraq/Afghanistan, N Korea etc etc etc raining death and destruction wherever you go
btw what country where the KKK from ?
[Keep it civil - moderator]
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 08:10 PM> The bonfires have nothing to do with Orangefest
Ahem, in the city, I’m not so sure that’s the case. Feel very much part of the tradition. And while they may be the domain of the younger folk, they’re not discouraged, and some in the parade will have been to see their local one - if what I saw last year is anything to go by.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 08:19 PMWhy not do what most Unionists do and head off to Malaga?
The lumpenproletariat, of whatever so called ‘community’ just drink and ‘go wild’. not much different to going to Buncrana, or Salthill.
You say you’re an ‘Irish’ socialist, so that’s the ‘socialism in one country’ approach. In fact it’s just petty parochialism Wolfie.
. Why not just call yourself an ape (which we all are), and accept that tribalism is part of our evolutionary heritage.Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 08:36 PMThe mini 12th parade in East Belfast this evening was more like a ‘spot the sash’ parade. I know the OO have accepted that they have ‘around’ 30k members, but take the loyalist bands out of the equation and you would be left with less than 1k sash wearing members.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:01 PMAnd for the enthusiasts:
Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland parades and resolutions.
Independent Loyal Orange Institution parade and resolutions
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:20 PMPicture the scene an Irish Republican Socialist turning up at an eleventh night bonfire.
If things turned nasty you could end up hearing this wee song.You shake our nerves and you rattle our brains,
Republican socialists drive us insane
You’ll never break our will, but what a thrill
We’ll stick on top of the boney and set your Balls on Fire!You scorned the 12th and thought it was funny,
You came along and I thought you were a bit of a honey
I changed my mind, after a bottle of Buckfast wine,
You’ll be on the boney, with your Balls on Fire!I’m pissed baby,
Ooooooh! feels good!
I’m pissed baby,
Weeel, I want another bottle of Bucky, wonder if I should
This wine, so fine,
I would tell this world that this carry out is mine, mine, mine, mine!I chew my nails and I twiddle my thumbs,
I’m really nervous, but it sure is fun
Come on, you rebel, you drive me crazy!
On top of the boney, with your Balls on Fire!
BreakWeeeel, I’m pissed baby,
Ooooooh! Feels good!
I’m pissed baby,
I want another bottle, wonder if I should
This wine, so fine,
I want to tell this world the Buckfast’s mine, mine, mine, mine!Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:31 PMAlan,
yesterday an Orange spokesman on Radio Ulster went out of his way on two occasions to state that the OO has nothing to do with organising or managing bonfires around the province. The parades themselves are normally well organised and marshalled, which cannot be said about bonfires.
btw, I’m not in the OO.
Kathy C,
You may already know this, but the effigy represents a Benedict Arnold-type character in Irish history who in 1689 betrayed the protestant community in L/Derry which was under siege by catholic forces. He wasn’t actually burned on a bonfire. Part of Irish folklore, you understand. We are not quite as barbaric as the KKK! Not at the moment, anyway.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:34 PMMark, Great idea, but.. I’ve never live blogged but I’ve been a reporter fora long time, live and recorded, admittedly within narrower parameters than yours. You can be as opinionated as you like. One big challenge of live blogging it seems to me is when you leave off observing and start typing. Too much of live blogging, even from professional reporters learning the skill, is fumbling about the subject, caused perhaps by a nervous need to start chattering too quickly. This can be irritating to the reader, even if fun for the blogger. It also seems to me you can get swamped with material very easiliy and miss good stuff. If I were you if I may say so, I’d cheat a little and let impressions settle a bit before typing. A bit like keeping a diary only faster. Keep it spontaneous, sure, but give yourself time to get a clear impression. Don’t hesitate to correct yourself either. May I suggest a two fold approach? Great that you intend to keep an open mind. Yes, report how it strikes you, with your own baggage and all the rest of it. But also report if you can, on what it’s doing for the protagonists. This can be tricky as I know full well, for you risk getting thumped. ( Try hawking round with a camera or even a compact tape recorder). But unless you do that and manage some dialogue, you’ll have failed to capture the essence of the thing. It also helps if you can take a note. Good luck!
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:51 PMI’m looking forward to the blog. Should be interesting to see if nationalists can ‘fit in’.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 09:58 PMCathy,
“I think going to an orange order bonfire is like going to a KKK cross burning….both are celebrations of hate….”
Sad but true. Except that in Northern Ireland bonfires are regarded as expressions of “culture”. As are Orange marches. Each to his own I suppose.
At the normal end of the scale, hubby and I will be celebrating genuine culture on 11 July by attending the Galway Film Fair. Then it’s on to the Galway Arts Festival, where we’ll be taking in Primal Scream, David Hockney, Femi Kuti and other delights.
We both wish you all the best with the Neanderthal “cultural” celebrations in the North :^)
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 10:26 PMFaites excuses: “Kathy C”, not Cathy!
Posted by on Jul 01, 2009 @ 10:28 PM
