Monday, July 07, 2008
Sectarianism and politics in Glasgow East
Defeat in Glasgow East is apparently another line in the sand for Gordon Brown’s leadership of the Labour Party. There are many questions about the Roman Catholic vote in the constituency and even complaints of anti-Catholicism in the Labour Party. Meanwhile the Conservatives leader David Cameron will be holding an event in a Roman Catholic church as part of their campaign. It is also an area that Iain Duncan Smith has done much work in through his social justice initiative. Fraser Nelson offers his perspective on sectarianism, politics and the by-election, concluding:
“Sectarianism may still be bad in Glasgow East, but the poverty is far, far worse.”
UPDATE: In Glasgow David Cameron has called for less sensitivity and more judgementalism.
Fair Deal @ 11:07 AM
I’d disagree with the sentiment on political betting that Catholic support for Labour has nothing to do with policy. A lot of Catholic social teaching fits better with the Left than the Right. Abortion would be the big one where it wouldn’t..
But there is not a cat’s chance in hell of the Tories winning this seat. That’d be an Earthquake unknown in British politics. If Labour lose it, it’ll be to the SNP, which would have only slightly smaller of an impact, given that the Union rests on the votes of so many Labour Catholics.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 01:19 PMThe Catholic/Irish vote in the East End have been Labour’s bedrock since the days of John Wheatley.
Perhaps that loyalty is starting to unwravell-perhaps.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 01:28 PMGiven their very good situation in England the tories dont have to worry about Scotland. I presume there is a visceral reaction to someone who sound like Cameron does - because as soon as he opens his mouth it immediately suggests to his audience they are in for another round of highland clearances with a healthy does of polltaxery thrown in.
Presumably that is why the referendum on independence is being put off by the SNP as every time a Tory says anything about Scotland it will bag another tranche of voters for independence.
The Scottish Catholics simultaneous allegiance to both England and Ireland is an ideological complexity that (speaking as I often do on behalf of all the plain people of Ireland) we can never hope to understand.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 02:02 PMNews from the ground on the Herald blog
Earthquake in GlasgowPosted by: Gaavster, Ayr on 4:05pm today
“I am a first time ‘activist’ and I was out and about in Glasgow over the weekend, doing my bit for my country and my people, and I have to say it was really encouraging…. There was definitely trepidation on my part. to begin with, in to how the SNP would be received in a staunch Labour heartland, but those nerves soon dissipated and I have to say that the signs are looking really good…. The responses we got from the ordinary folk (circa 70%) in the street was that they were willing to put their faith in someone and something different come election day and that they had had enough of the cow-towing to Westminster and the complete indifference with which they have been subjected to for many a long year… They want a party that will deal fairly and openly with Local and Scottish Issues and the number of people who said to me ’ Aye, and over a hundred years of oil left in the North Sea….’ Roll on the 24th and the tipping point…. SAOR ALBA
I am a first time ‘activist’ and I was out and about in Glasgow over the weekend, doing my bit for my country and my people, and I have to say it was really encouraging….There was definitely trepidation on my part. to begin with, in to how the SNP would be received in a staunch Labour heartland, but those nerves soon dissipated and I have to say that the signs are looking really good….
The responses we got from the ordinary folk (circa 70%) in the street was that they were willing to put their faith in someone and something different come election day and that they had had enough of the cow-towing to Westminster and the complete indifference with which they have been subjected to for many a long year…
They want a party that will deal fairly and openly with Local and Scottish Issues and the number of people who said to me ’ Aye, and over a hundred years of oil left in the North Sea….’
Roll on the 24th and the tipping point….
SAOR ALBA”
SAOR ALBA indeed.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 02:30 PMMessed that cut and paste up a bit sorry but you get the drift.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 02:46 PMThe person from Ayr need not have been worried about the East End.
the mould for the SNP was broken there in 1987.I know.
I was there.Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 02:58 PMSNP had 300 people out on Saturday Phil - keep that up for 17 days and it’s surely ours.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 03:03 PMAre Plaid Cymru standing as well, Dewi?
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 03:50 PMLol Picador - same movement…
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 03:55 PMWhen is polling day?
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 04:31 PMGlas is a fairly rare example of Gaelic and Welsh words being the same - black (Di/Dubh) is another.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 04:32 PMPhil - July 24
Sammy - Glasgow actually a Welsh (Brythonic) name from when we ruled Strathclyde (Ystrad Clud) Glas (green) Cae (Field) - soft mutation + some centuries of glaswegian prounounciation = Glasgow. In (hmm) etymological terms Glas is an extremely weird Welsh word in that it meant Green for thousands of years (as reflected in place names such as Maes Glas) but now means Blue. Did some medieval Welsh monk just decide on that or what there some genetic Celtic colour blindness?...off to Google…..Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 04:56 PMLearn something new every day So strange - blue looks so different to Green to me - like the difference between the sky and the grass. RG Cuan - where are you when you are needed?
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:01 PMYeah, we go that glas colour-blindness going on too. Glas = green….or grey!
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:05 PMThere’s every possibility that Labour could lose a mid-term by-election at a time of great unpopularity even in the East End of Glasgow. But trying to paint the Glasgow Labour Party as anti-Catholic because some of them support abortion would be like trying to paint Sinn Féin as anti-Catholic because they support civil partnerships for gay people.
The Catholic Church in Scotland is playing a very dangerous game; not only do less people go to church now I don’t think that many people are too keen on being lectured on how to vote from the pulpit. It seems a particularly venal game as the SNP are every bit as socially liberal as Labour.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:13 PMAside from the sectarian influence (declining but still a factor) surely it would be the end of Brown,Sammy, if Labour lost here?
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:23 PMHave to agree Sammy.
the Labour has deep spores into the Catholic community in a similiar way to Fianna fail in rural Ireland.Your analogy with Sinn Fein & civil partnershipsis an accurate one imo
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:35 PMDewi it is a mid term bye-election.
Heaven wont fall :0)
However should SNP win on the 27th and then hold it at the GE-then,then something will have changed in the ghetto where I was born.And yes lads it is a fekin ghetto
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:40 PM24th mun Phil…..
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:46 PMVoting on a Monday dewi?
What happened to thursday?
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 05:56 PMPhil - am I going mad? - It’s Monday today, Thursday on 10th, + a fortnight that’s 10 +14 = 24. (I think…)
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 06:13 PMNo hassle Dewi-Brit elections are usually on a thursday.
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 06:50 PMAs is this one Phil !!!! - A fortnight Thursday, July 24th….
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 08:10 PMCheers dewi-I’m due over the week after but I might change my schedule-I would love to be at the count ;0)
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 08:33 PMnice post from the Guardian blog: There’s something afoot>
I was born and brought up in the East End of Glasgow before moving away to London and then to sunnier climes. My family have lived in the East End of Glasgow for generations, and many of them still live in the Glasgow East constituency. They are working class, ‘Catholic’ and until recently were Labour to the core. But not anymore.
My mother is almost 70, and has lived in the East End of Glasgow all her life. She remarked the other day how for the first time she can ever remember people are excited by the prospect of an election where their vote really can make a difference. I have 9 family members who are entitled to vote at this by-election. All of them used to vote Labour, and all but one are voting SNP this time. They are not entirely convinced that the SNP will prove to be any better, but they are revolted by what the Labour party has become. Although lingering suspicions about the SNP remain, most say they’d vote ‘yes’ to independence when there is a referendum. My mother, much to my pleasant surprise, has become an enthusiastic advocate of Scottish independence.
My father is the one who won’t be voting SNP, but it’s his attitude which perhaps ought to worry the Labour party most. He’s now retired but was a manual worker and a union organiser. It’s his proud boast that his grandfather was a founder member of the Scottish Labour party and knew John Wheatley and James Maxton. But he’s not proud of what the Labour party has become. He can’t bring himself to vote for any other party, but he can’t bring himself to vote Labour either. He’s going to abstain. He even said that perhaps it might be better for Scotland to become independent as that’s the only way there will ever be any chance of Scottish Labour finding its soul again.
When Labour cannot even count on the votes of people like my dad, then as we say in Glasgow - the gemme’s a bogey
Posted by on Jul 07, 2008 @ 08:49 PM
