Thursday, May 08, 2008
SDLP suffering from Durkan’s indecision…
If there is a raging debate going on inside the SDLP it is barely obvious to those on the outside. Yesterday we noted Conall McDevitt laid down an elegant case for the SDLP going on its own. in yesterday’s Irish News, Brian Feeney argued that Mark Durkan’s ‘weakness and indecision’ as a leader is the primary political quality currently defining his party’s future:
After the SDLP’s breakfast in bed with Fianna Fail at the Carrickdale, Fine Gael finally woke up to how real the courtship has become. It issued a statement saying any closer SDLP relationship with Fianna Fail would mean a fundamental rethink of Fine Gael’s relationship with the SDLP. Whoo. Scary. Well that wouldn’t take long given that Fine Gael has had next to no relationship with the SDLP.
What there was could best be described as mutual exasperation. In fact Fine Gael in the past has shown more affinity with the NIO’s front party than northern nationalists.
Even so, Fine Gael’s shot across the bows was enough to spook Durkan into remembering that there are two other parties to be reckoned with in the south. He reckoned he’d better give them their place.
In that context Durkan’s afterthought about Labour and Fine Gael was downright insulting so both parties will correctly ignore him.
They will be well aware, even if Durkan is not, that the SDLP committee Durkan set up to consider ‘all political options’ is his admission that the SDLP is dead. The party is over. In the words of the Monty Python sketch, it has ceased to be. A political party doesn’t set up a committee to consider its own position.
Neither does Feeney think that there is any other serious suitors (there are some in Newry who will dispute at least one element of what follows):
There is no ‘Labour element’ in the SDLP. It’s a middle-class Catholic party. The party has no infrastructure in Newry. It has no members at all in most working-class districts of Belfast. We know Derry is just dying to go Fianna Fail. Besides, the SDLP leadership will not go out of business only to become the northern wing of a Stickie-led Labour Party in Dublin. They hope linking up with Fianna Fail will offer life after death to the party leaders but a link with Labour would be what Ian Paisley likes to call “a Sadducee’s grave” – no resurrection.
Finally, he cites a knotty, but not necessarily insurmountable problem:
What’s holding up a decision, apart from Durkan’s inability to act decisively? Timing is one issue. The right moment to announce a FF/SDLP candidate for Europe next year but one who won’t go down in humiliating defeat to Sinn Fein on the first outing. Secondly, since Fianna Fail will not contest British elections what on earth will become of the SDLP’s Westminster seats? Alasdair McDonnell has long been an ardent advocate of Fianna Fail but he couldn’t call himself a Fianna Fail candidate in the next British general election.
Mick Fealty @ 11:10 AM
In Conall’s defence he does chair the largest branch in the SDLP and one which has grown it’s vote over the past decade.
All politics needs an ideological basis otherwise it is simply populism and reactionary.
I think there is a big opportunity for a progressive party in the North and I believe FF would love to be able to call themselves social democrats. The SDLP are quite different from any party on this island. They are proudly Irish and progressive and do not carry any bagage from the past. That could well turn out to be a very attractive thing to other parties.
I am glad Conall is sticking up for the SDLP and showing some leadership on the issue.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 09:48 PMWhy is the SDLP regarded as the only ‘Strategic Partner’ for Fianna Fail? Recent relevations regarding dealing with property developers in north Antrim would tick most of the boxes for the DUP
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:02 PMI find the SDLP-FF Anschluss fascinating. Bring it on!
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:14 PMBrian Feenet for North Belfast on an abstentionist ticket. Ex-stoop. Republican. Dodds - toast!
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:16 PMBrian Feeney for North Belfast on an abstentionist ticket. Ex-stoop. Republican. Dodds - toast!
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:16 PMANY party that allows talented politicians like Brian Feeney & Martin Morgan to walk away deserves to be held up to total ridicule and ALL the criticism coming it’s way. These were 2 people who got their hands dirty in nationalist inner city North Belfast and the SDLP let them go. THAT WAS SHOCKING and many who voted for them simply stopped after that. They are indeed a conservative rural middle class party and appear quite happy to remain so. Fianna Fail & the SDLP are natural allies with a mutual constituency, big business & rich farmers but like other things in nature all is NOT what it seems. Fianna Fail do NOT need the SDLP but the SDLP DO need Fianna Fail. When the merger happens it will be a complete take over lock, stock and barrel.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:23 PMLurig
Fianna Fail do NOT need the SDLP but the SDLP DO need Fianna Fail. When the merger happens it will be a complete take over lock, stock and barrel.
I think you’re right but in the sense that Hong Kong was a complete takeover lock, stock and barrel for the Chinese. It was the bitterest pill they ever swallowed. Bring it on. Bring Social Democracy to a natural country for social democracy. Like the Chinese swallowing capitalism, Ireland will swallow social democracy.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:39 PMSo Fianna Fail wouldn’t take the oath? Ha, ha! They would sell their sole to the British Queen if they thought it would get them into power! Sir Tom Kelly, Fianna Fail’s biggest fan, has already lead the way!
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:50 PMI should have said ‘soul’ in my last post instead of ‘sole’. It must have been a Freudian slip as I was talking about people who are under the British jackboot!
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:56 PMChristina
There’s none so enslaved by the British than those who spent their lives using the methods of the British, violence, and achieved nothing.
The good thing about the SDLP is that they’re uniquely Irish and international at once.
They are the party of non-violence, not the violence that founded empires, great and small.
You should celebrate as this is a great time to be Irish. Have a toast to Social Democracy, the foundation stone of a New Ireland.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 11:38 PMNow, I’m far from politically astute but for the life of me I can’t see how FF benefit from any of this. It’ll take a generation’s worth of work and re-organisation to compete with SF anywhere outside of the current SDLP strongholds of Foyle and South Down, even in 2011 a SDLP/FF amalgamation wouldn’t be the largest party in any of the new 11 councils. Is playing second fiddle to SF in the North really going to do them any favours in the State?
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 11:46 PMFor some nationalists/republicans, anything that opposes Sinn Fein’s monoply of power in our areas is to be welcomed.
Few, outside nationalist areas, have any real understanding of the power/nepotism/cronyism that Sinn Fein exerts on peoples’ lives. The reality is: if you’re in the club, if you, ‘kick with the right foot’ (remember that?), it’s happy days. If you’re a ‘left-footer’, the dole awaits.
So, for some, any nationalist iniatative that breaks this stranglehold would be welcomed.
The SDLP are incapable of re-gaining the ground they lost to Sinn Fein.
That forces the question: is an SDLP/Fianna Fail coalition capable of re-gaining the ground lost to Sinn Fein?
Absolutely. It would work.
Fianna Fail have the capability to take the SDLP to a new plane - if the SDLP are big enough to grasp the opportunity.
Alternatively, if the SDLP remained myopic and refused a Fianna Fail-inspired coalition offer, then they would be wiped out, once and for all at the polls.
Fianna Fail will flourish, nonetheless.
Sinn Fein will also get burned by Fianna Fail’s intervention. Many of those who vote for Sinn Fein now, do so, because of the inherent weakness of the SDLP, and the apparent strength of the Unionist parties.
Fianna Fail would offer the perfect balance: a real All-Ireland deal, that no-one else could replicate.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 12:40 AM“The SDLP are incapable of re-gaining the ground they lost to Sinn Fein.
That forces the question: is an SDLP/Fianna Fail coalition capable of re-gaining the ground lost to Sinn Fein?
Absolutely. It would work.
Fianna Fail have the capability to take the SDLP to a new plane - if the SDLP are big enough to grasp the opportunity.
Alternatively, if the SDLP remained myopic and refused a Fianna Fail-inspired coalition offer, then they would be wiped out, once and for all at the polls.
Fianna Fail will flourish, nonetheless.
Sinn Fein will also get burned by Fianna Fail’s intervention. Many of those who vote for Sinn Fein now, do so, because of the inherent weakness of the SDLP, and the apparent strength of the Unionist parties. “
Tell me why?
In theory that’s fine - but I’d suggest that’s a situation where it’s more hope than expectation, The Northern Nationalist electorate have more than enough cop on to see through the political expediency of FF trying to bate SF into submission in their own back yard. FF will have to play a long term game if they’re to have any hope of being a force this side of the border - SF are too entrenched in FST, MU, WT, N&A;and WB for FF to have any impact in the short to medium term
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 01:06 AMOriginal Sam
The Northern Nationalist electorate will vote for the biggest cock on the block if they think it will deliver a United Ireland, always have, always will and don’t fool yourself otherwise.
Think i’m wrong? why else would they reject those who opposed the murdering of their neighbours sons in ditches, and reward those who’s eyes were looking through cross-hairs?
SF have stolen the SDLP’s clothes for years, Durkan whines about it ad-nauseum, his favourite soundbite is ‘if you want to know what SF policy will be in ten years time look at the SDLP’s now’.
The question for Durkan is does he have the political nous and courage to do to SF what they did to the SDLP, copy them. Govt. North & South = Harmonising regimes = Closer to UI.
SF sold the package and Nationalists broke down the doors to get at the sales early, only problem was the Republic’s electorate knew snake-oil men when they saw them.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 08:11 AMThe SDLp will never go for abstention. It goes against the grain of everything they believe in.
And I understand that Eamon De Valera signed the Oath, albeit in a darkened room.
____________________________________________
JohnFianna Fail understand this and as a result they are quite content to let the SDLP go to Westminster for them. Remember Fianna Fail are not talking about abstentionism at Westmintser - they won’t contest Westminster elections. Fianna Fail will let someone else do it for them.
Its the 21st century version of DeV’s “empty formula” description of the oath. I think Stewart’s point about the SDLP rebranding as “Fianna Fail-Social Democratic Party” is a good one. FF-SDP would be known as “Fianna Fail” to the man on the street but could still be the PES affiliate that the middle class lefties want to stay in. FF-SDP could go to Westminster while Fianna Fail in Dublin could claim they don’t send MPs to Westminster or take and oath to the Queen.
“Fianna Fail-Social Democratic Party” as a strategic partner would be classic Fianna Fail double think - being all things to all men. Abstaining from Westminster and fully participating in it all at once. Very much Fianna Fail’s pragmatic republicanism.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 10:20 AMthe PES affiliate that the middle class lefties want to stay in.
Christ. I repeat: no one cares.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 10:43 AMthe PES affiliate that the middle class lefties want to stay in.
Christ. I repeat: no one cares.
Kensei
Perhaps I was too subtle - I think that was implicit in what I said!
That said I still stand over Fianna Fail’s capacity to be all things to all men and on “abstention”
JD
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 11:11 AMthe main reason ff was thinking of joining sdlp was because dermot ahern, ireland’s erstwhile foreign minister and aspirant leader, had been shafted by bertie ahern into that wasteland of ambition the department of foreign affairs. how else could dermot ahern whose seat is close to the border maintain a hope that he might one day lead the soldiers of corruption than by pursuing the pet project of the proposed merger. Dermot Ahern now will continue to pursue it, but it will never wash and he is finished politically. BTW? Alastair McDonnell is distributing literature in south belfast which does not mention the sdlp on it once.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 11:17 AMANY party that allows talented politicians like Brian Feeney & Martin Morgan to walk away deserves to be held up to total ridicule and ALL the criticism coming it’s way. These were 2 people who got their hands dirty in nationalist inner city North Belfast and the SDLP let them go.
Couldn’t let this comment by Lurig go unchallenged. I grew up in the Oldpark ward in Feeney’s and Morgan’s heyday and (coincidentally live within a few hundred metres of Feeney, Morgan and Maginness all these days). I have no gripe with Marty Morgan at all, who was prepared to get his hands dirty, but Feeney? I never saw the man except when he was collecting his children from St. Malachy’s, the only time he was ever seen near the New Lodge unless there was a TV camera in the vicinity.
Talk is cheap. Feeney talks real purty but delivery was never his strong point. And not that it’s my role in life to defend the SDLP, since he left politics he seems to spend his time slagging off the Stoops with the implication that they’d have been sooooo much better off if only they’d have done what he said. And in case you think I’m just being bitchy, here are the SDLP votes in Oldpark since the ward was created, which given all else that has happened in NI in the past 23 years hardly bespeaks Feeney’s vote-getting prowess:
2005 (Maginness) 15.9%, 2001 (Morgan/Connolly) 19.1%, 1997 (Morgan/O’Hara) 16.3%, 1993 (Morgan/Prendiville) 15.8%, 1989 (Feeney) 18.4%, 1993 (Morgan/Prendiville) 15.8%, 1985 (Feeney/Hunter) 16.1%
The SDLP and/or FF will never get anywhere by navel-gazing, but that’s what they’re going to spend the next three years doing, before they get hit by a landmine in the 2011 elections. Pity, but still, non-sectarian progressives of whatever stripe will always find a warm welcome in Alliance.
Oh, yes, and Alasdair disowning the SDLP on his literature… what could he be thinking!
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 01:03 PMIt always helps when people on slugger have a fucking clue what they’re on about.
I received said McDonnell literature, if you look carefully i’m sure it will tell you who paid for it i.e. a Westminster budget, that means party political has to stay out of it. Its a means by which the local MP communicates with his constituents.
Now the SDLP might be many things but they are sticklers when it comes to respecting protocol’s and administrative restraint.
But if you wolves want to howl “CONSPIRACY!!!” at the moon don’t let me interupt.
Eire i don’t know about but Sammy i expected more from a seasoned sluggerite like you?
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 02:36 PMRe literature from Alistair McDonnell - I received this at two addresses, one in South Belfast, and one in East Belfast.
I know in the past I may have been expected to vote twice, but surely not for the same candidate in different areas.
Sorry, I forgot about the Robert McCartney scenario
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 03:05 PMI received said McDonnell literature, if you look carefully i’m sure it will tell you who paid for it i.e. a Westminster budget, that means party political has to stay out of it. Its a means by which the local MP communicates with his constituents.
I’ve done these reports too, and if you pay for part of them yourself you can make some party political comment, and as far as I know it’s customary at the very least to pay for a small part of it to include the party logo. At least in my experience.
I received this at two addresses, one in South Belfast, and one in East Belfast.
That isn’t suspicious - Royal Mail delivery areas don’t match constituency boundaries, so you always get some bleed over at the edges. Was the East Belfast address in BT6 or BT8 by any chance?
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 03:34 PMIn response to the comment, by the usually accurate Mick Fealtey, I have to ask him where all this so-called young talent in Sinn Fein is supposed to be? I’ve looked about for it all over and can’t find any. We have Daithi McKay in the Assembly who is famous for being the Baby of the House and not much else. All these young Shiiners do nothing more than read their pre-prepared scripts- badly. They strike me as being second rate actors more than the second rate politicians they claim to be.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 03:45 PMCan I just point out the bloody obvious? If the oath were removed tomorrow, Fianna Fail would not take seats at Westminster. The natural party of goverment of Ireland will NEVER NEVER NEVER take seats at Westminster for reasons which have nothing to do with Northern Ireland, the oath, or the Gods of Irish Republican history.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 04:45 PMThere have been multinational parties before, Briso. The Greens claim to be, and before you scream they aren’t a natural party of government, what about the Ba’ath Party?
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 04:48 PM
