Friday, March 16, 2007
SDLP criticise Sinn Fein of ‘over canvassing’…
On our last Slugger Radio outing Sammy noted that Sinn Fein’s electioneering techniques were miles ahead of the field. Unfairly so, say several senior SDLP MLAs.
Dolores Kelly:
“We were getting reports of Sinn Fein going twice to the same doors on the day of the election asking if people had voted,” she said. “People were complaining to us that there were up to 10 men standing outside the voting station and that they found it quite intimidating.” She said there were also cases of republican ballads being blasted at SDLP candidates when they arrived at polling stations.
SDLP MLA for Newry and Armagh Dominic Bradley had a similar story: “Some people I know of were canvassed up to four times during the course of the campaign,” he said. “I think they were selected. In other words, anyone that was not convinced, they would revisit.” One nationalist source said she saw Sinn Fein members holding an elderly man’s hand and putting the voting card into it to show him who he should vote for. She said party members had a colour-coded register defining whether voters were definite Sinn Fein, possible Sinn Fein, SDLP and those who didn’t vote last time.
But there is hardly any secret about this method. Slugger was told during a Sinn Fein campaign in Oldpark in North Belfast in the last Assembly elections in November 2003, that they categorise voters in core areas as either green (definite SF) or yellow (possible converts). It’s methodical, and in the heartland areas it seems to deliver. It may be one reason Sinn Fein are the only party with five seats in a single constituency. And, most importantly, it’s entirely legal.
In fairness, the real problem may simply be that other parties are under canvassing.
Mick Fealty @ 06:44 PM
Shamrock
For the third and final time, he was asked to leave. I have already said if you don’t believe me ask the man himself.
There was plenty of witnesses that saw it happen.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:11 PMAFAIK forms were submitted for all stations, but authorisation did not come through- one of several clerical mishaps on the part of the good folks at Banbridge- and further action may be taken. It’s largely irrelevent of course, unless Chris wants me to say that it caused the SDLP to lose a seat, thus fulfilling his belief that I’m chomping on sour grapes.
I never heard about the Dominic issue, but if he was asked to leave, then it would simply reinforce my point about polling staff not being trained. The fact is that most staff do not know the rules, thus by definition do not know how to enforce the rules e.g. the badges issue.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:13 PMBTW Chris- are you linking your assertion that Dominic was asked to leave to the point you make about Meigh? Was he asked to leave the polling station you speak of on account of there not being authorisation for SDLP representation there?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:17 PMInformation is passed out of polling stations- even Roisin admitted it above without realising it’s illega
Admitted what, El Mat? I’m not a member of Sinn Fein, so I hope you’re not insinuating that I made some admission that I’m not even in a place to do. All I’ve done is comment on something that happens in elections all over the world, including the grown-up versions.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:19 PMSammy,
Thanks for the clarification.
El Mat,
Thanks for the clarification also.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:22 PMRoisin-
Why would I assume you’re a Sinn Féin member? You said: “Why’s that a problem? It happens in elections all over the world.” i.e. you admitted it happens. I have no idea what your knowledge, or lack thereof, is of polling station activity here.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:22 PMLet me raise another related point that I’d certainly like to see progress on.
At the end of poll, I believe polling agents/ candidates should be entitled to question local presiding officers about the precise number of ballot papers issued during the day.
To me, this seems like a basic entitlement to ensure transparency and limit the potential for vote tampering from the moment the polling stations close.
On the matter of polling agents, they play a very important role in ensuring political parties can provide testament to the integrity of the electoral process on the critical day of poll. In a society where little trust exists between competing traditions, I would have thought measures aimed at further restricting the transparency of the electoral process should be resisted.
btw the ‘stub’ argument is entirely bogus. If El Mat has actually ever attended an election count then he/ she would know that the idea that a person spends the whole time there waiting for a single ballot paper to be overturned to find out how a solitary person has voted is simply laughable, never mind a monumental waste of time.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:23 PMEl Mat,
Sorry, I just didn’t want my comment to be misconstrued.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:23 PMEl Mat - Dominic had automatic authority to go any of the polling stations within his constituency - he didnt need to complete any form so I can understand why Chris is relating him being asked to leave to the fact that they never filled out the required forms. There were no forms to fill if you were a candidate.
I the electoral office staff did not allow him in then there should be some serious questions asked.
I think Chris has simply changed the true facts to suit himself and discredit the organisation within the SDLP - i Dominic was asked to leave it couldnt possibly be because noone from the SDLP had been offically allocated to that station - and that is what Chris insinuated at the beginning of this thread!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:25 PMChris D-
I don’t believe I raised the issue of the stubs on this thread initially, and as I said, it’s wholly separate from the main thrust of this thread. Also, who ever said anything to the effect that “a person spends the whole time there waiting for a single ballot paper to be overturned to find out how a solitary person has voted”? The point is in theory a vote can be traced by whoever has access to stored papers and stubs subsequent to an election and subsequent to the count- that is all.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:27 PMShamrock- that’s the point I’m trying to clarify, i.e. is Chris attempting to marry the two incidents.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:29 PMThe point is in theory a vote can be traced by whoever has access to stored papers and stubs subsequent to an election and subsequent to the count- that is all.
El Mat
But can they?
Once the ballot papers have been sorted and tallied, is there not a duplication of the numbers? By this I simply mean are there more than one Ballots with the number (eg)’385’ on them- i.e. one for every polling station in which more than 384 people voted?
I am genuinely asking the question as I do not know the answer (Sammy may be required at this juncture.)
In any case, were that to be true, it would be impossible to trace the vote to an individual polling station after the count proper had commenced (ie post-verification.)
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:33 PMthe badges issue
That happened us as well El Mat and when we told the polling staff to ring Banbridge Amanda Mason clarified that the badges were legal.
In relation to Dominic I am not linking anything. Dominic was asked to leave that morning in Meigh and that was the polling station where you didn’t send in the forms.
BTW the reason why I say you didn’t send in the forms was because I overheard one of your own people say that.
I won’t name names but you can guess who I am talking about when you think of the area in question.
Was he asked to leave the polling station you speak of on account of there not being authorisation for SDLP representation there?
You would have to ask the Electoral officer why she asked him to leave.
I think Chris has simply changed the true facts to suit himself and discredit the organisation within the SDLP
I’m getting a little sick and tired of anonymous stoops on this board of accusing me of lying.
El Mat could you confirm with Dominic that this happend so that Shamrock can apologise for questioning my integrity.
I don’t need to alter or make anything up, the stoops actiually do it for me.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:38 PMIf Dominic was asked to leave on account of there being no agents at Meigh, then that is a disgrace, but simply serves to show the ineptitude of the system. The badges issue shows it as well. I am aware of registered party representatives being improperly ‘bossed’ by polling staff, but thankfully they knew their rights and stood their ground. It isn’t the workers’ fault- for the most part they are just drafted in for the day to make a few extra quid. The system needs to be overhauled, professionalised and tightened- democracy and everyone involved in elections would benefit- party volunteers and candidates have enough to deal with around election time without having to deal with ill-informed jobsworths.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:46 PMIf Dominic was asked to leave on account of there being no agents at Meigh, then that is a disgrace, but simply serves to show the ineptitude of the system
I don’t know why he was asked to leave, I simply know that he was.
It isn’t the workers’ fault- for the most part they are just drafted in for the day to make a few extra quid
Agreed, although I must say that the staff at my station were 100% professional.
party volunteers and candidates have enough to deal with around election time without having to deal with ill-informed jobsworths.
Agreed
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:51 PMAnd will also agree that my points have been made in good faith, rather than being the wine of sour grapes?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:56 PMSome of your points ;)
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 11:59 PMEl Mat,
Picador- what are you on about?
I would like to hear your opinion about why the SDLP performed poorly in the recent election.
And what the party needs to do to ensure the rot is stopped.
Because so far all I’ve heard from the SDLP is head-in-the-sand ‘it’s all the nasty Shinner’s fault’ type explanations. And clearly that isn’t good enough.
The party is going down the tubes unless some serious soul-searching is done. And that, in my opinion, would be bad for nationalists in the north.
Regards,
PicadorPicador
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 12:04 AMPicador-
In particular, I want to know what you mean by:
“To the party hack known as ‘the killer’”
Party hack?
“Nothing will be achieved by just complaining in public.
Au contraire, complaining in public makes the party make look even more inept and ridiculous than it already is.”
So why say au contraire? What you say concurs with the point I made i.e. complaining in the media about such issues will be of no benefit. You simply put your own spin on the net outcome of such comments.
As regards the reasons for the SDLP electoral performance- these are varied and I certainly won’t be sticking my head in the sand. Nor will I be going into detail about them on a public forum either, not least because I have no sway in terms of dealing with them- it is for the party to decide the best way forward.
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 12:17 AMEssentially the SDLP are saying they were hammered by Sinn Fein because they had a better election machine?
Outrageous! Why didn’t somebody spot this and ban the buggers before they went off and won all these seats?
You couldn’t make it up;)
Perhaps Sinn Fein could lend them some activists next time.
Even things up, make it fairer, level the playing field, etc.
Obviously it would be easier to introduce legislation to restrict the number of Sinn Fein activists involved in election campaigns, stop them knocking doors to maximise the turnout and prevent them carrying out constituency work, thus making it less likely that people would vote for them.
Of course the easiest solution would be to put a moratorium on elections until the SDLP figure out a way to get into power without the need for the support of the plebs.Chris
I heard Bradley was turfed out of Meigh polling station. Can’t remember the details though.
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 01:53 AMIt is perfectly possible to marry up the ballot paper and the stub (which the electoral staff write your individual electoral number on).After the count the ballot papers are already sorted into bundles ie. all Sinn Fein together, all SDLP together and so on.It is certainly possible that the British government could ascertain exactly who voted for each candidate or who spoiled their vote etc.Does anyone seriously consider that this information has not been used in the past ,or that it wont find it’s way to MI5’s shiny new headquarters in holwood(all part of the war on terrorism don’t you know).
SECRET BALLOT MY ARSE.Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 02:55 AMA couple of things about Dolores Kelly’s accusation.
Quote from The News Letter article -’Upper Bann SDLP MLA Dolores Kelly attacked Sinn Fein’s election tactics.
“We were getting reports of Sinn Fein going twice to the same doors on the day of the election asking if people had voted,” she said.
“People were complaining to us that there were up to 10 men standing outside the voting station and that they found it quite intimidating.”
She said there were also cases of republican ballads being blasted at SDLP candidates when they arrived at polling stations.
SDLP MLA for Newry and Armagh Dominic Bradley had a similar story: “Some people I know of were canvassed up to four times during the course of the campaign,” he said.1. Dolores Kelly’s comments appeared in the News Letter - not the the Irish News, or better still and where one might think it more appropriate to the Upper Bann constituency, neither has this accusation appeared in the Lurgan Mail, Portadown Times, or the two Banbridge papers which of all have a unionist (small U) editorial slant.
2. The SDLP election machine was so sparce on the ground that Dolores Kelly herself had to man a polling booth in Aghagallon (her home area) on election day
3. Brid Rodgers, with a marked register, knocked the doors of selected houses in the Ballyoran estate on the Garvaghy Road in Portadown trying to encourage people to go to vote SDLP with little success. (This happened between 4.45pm and 5.30pm.
4 What was played over PA systems throughout the day was the audio of the SF election broadcast shown on TV - not Republican ballads
5 If 10 people had been standing outside the polling station at any one time, the answer to that is very simple - they were people waiting on lifts back home. Think about it - 10 people from any party would be better off used by any party through rapping doors, giving lifts etc.
6. If people’s doors were canvassed up to 4 times by SF as alleged by Kelly and Bradley, that only shows the manpower involved in the SF election machine and the weakness of the other parties. Many doors didn’t even gt knocked by the SDLP once.
7 In Upper Bann, where SF polled twice the vote of the SDLP and where SF personel were stretched to the limit, there were no “no-go” areas. Every potential nationalist home, even those in loyalist areas of Portadown and Banbridge received a visit, or at the very least, letters from O’Dowd and Ward as well from Gerry Adams. Did the SDLP do likewise? No.
8 Two Sinn Féin seats here at the next election - the SDLP took all for granted while SF went and sought every vote.
9 Compare these results:- (percentages are of overall vote within the constituency)
1997 Westminster Election
Brid Rodgers (Social Democratic and Labour Party) 11,584 (24%)
Bernadette O’Hagan (Sinn Féin) 5,773 (12%)1998 Assembly Election
SDLP 11,947 (23.7%) 1 seat
SF 7,216 (14.3%) 1 seat2001 Westminster Election
Dara O’Hagan (Sinn Féin) 10,771 (21.1%)
Dolores Kelly (SDLP) 7,607 (14.9%)2003 Assembly election
SF (O’Dowd) - 9,494 (21.8%, +7.5%) 1 seat
SDLP (Kelly) - 6,818 (15.7%, -8.0%) 1 seat
2005 Westminster election (5 May, 1 seat)
Sinn Fein 9,305 (21.0% -0.1%)
SDLP 5,747 (13.0% -1.9%)2007 Assembly
SF 10,851 (25.3 +3.5)
SDLP 5,450 (12.7 -3.0)
Their has been a complete reversal in the fortunes of both parties. 2 SF seats next time around. And theit at least 2000 votes, either through non-registration or lack of ID to play for given previous results. Only SF will be likely to attrect those.Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 05:00 AMHere’s a big question for the Shinners to answer. SF have given O’Dowd a relatively big public profile, but SF also ran a largely unknown cllr from Banbridge along with him. Why did SF not put forward the Garvaghy Road spokesman Brendan Mac Connath as a candidate? After all, there was a major fanfare to the media when he became a full-time worker for SF a few years ago.
Big public profile personality with him which many ‘Taigs’ in loayalist areas who would normally keep their heads down could associate with, as he was seen to lead his community in one of the blackest’s town in the north(which also historically kept their heads down) to a victory -its almost ten years since the big week-long Drumcree strike and after that no Orange marches got down Garvachy Road.
Major slip up by SF there - Mac Connath and O’Dowd would have been a dream team and both would have been elected.
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 05:14 AMAbsolutly pathetic press for the Stoops. I heard them complaining in the polling station I was in all day long about Sinn Féin… I’ve never seen huffin like it in my entire life. Every box for SF was covered in my polling station btw whereas the Stoops had two or three people in at a time (most of which was spent yapping to Electoral Office officals present).
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 05:44 AMHaven’t posted on this site before but the reliable talk inside and outside the shinners is that Breandan MacCionnaith (note the correct spelling of his name) was one of the very few who actually questioned and opposed the recent treacherous policy changes put forward at the special ard fheis by the PSF leadership and also at other internal PSF meetings in the Six counties. Probably explains why he wasn’t an election candidate. Rumours are he has left PSF, but no-one knows for sure, pity he wasn’t one the alternative Republican candidates in the recent elections as he has previously proved that he can strike a cord with all Republicans and 90% of nationalists in the Six Counties. Still, he might be with PSF. Anyone know his present status?
Posted by on Mar 17, 2007 @ 05:46 AM
