Friday, March 16, 2007
SDLP criticise Sinn Fein of ‘over canvassing’…
On our last Slugger Radio outing Sammy noted that Sinn Fein’s electioneering techniques were miles ahead of the field. Unfairly so, say several senior SDLP MLAs.
Dolores Kelly:
“We were getting reports of Sinn Fein going twice to the same doors on the day of the election asking if people had voted,” she said. “People were complaining to us that there were up to 10 men standing outside the voting station and that they found it quite intimidating.” She said there were also cases of republican ballads being blasted at SDLP candidates when they arrived at polling stations.
SDLP MLA for Newry and Armagh Dominic Bradley had a similar story: “Some people I know of were canvassed up to four times during the course of the campaign,” he said. “I think they were selected. In other words, anyone that was not convinced, they would revisit.” One nationalist source said she saw Sinn Fein members holding an elderly man’s hand and putting the voting card into it to show him who he should vote for. She said party members had a colour-coded register defining whether voters were definite Sinn Fein, possible Sinn Fein, SDLP and those who didn’t vote last time.
But there is hardly any secret about this method. Slugger was told during a Sinn Fein campaign in Oldpark in North Belfast in the last Assembly elections in November 2003, that they categorise voters in core areas as either green (definite SF) or yellow (possible converts). It’s methodical, and in the heartland areas it seems to deliver. It may be one reason Sinn Fein are the only party with five seats in a single constituency. And, most importantly, it’s entirely legal.
In fairness, the real problem may simply be that other parties are under canvassing.
Mick Fealty @ 05:44 PM
Mick-
That’s the problem- people know it goes on, but can do very little- that’s why the lobbying to tighten the regulations road would be better. Nothing will be achieved by just complaining in public.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:05 PMMick
In other parts of the world, it’s not even legal for party workers to record the information of who has or has not voted - an extension of the idea that the ballot should be secret.
Except Mick as I alluded to earlier the ballot is not secret. Whoever holds onto the ballot papers post election can tell for example who voted for the RSF candidates. Is there any legality in this?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:08 PMTo the party hack known as ‘the killer’
Nothing will be achieved by just complaining in public.
Au contraire, complaining in public makes the party make look even more inept and ridiculous than it already is. Were these candidates on message or were they just shooting their mouths off in an undisciplined manner?
But you’re right. Nothing positive will be achieved by complaining to the News Letter.
BTW. Any comments of a meaningful nature to be made on the mess that the SDLP finds itself in?
Regards,
PicadorPosted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:19 PMbelfastwhite,
You don’t need just the ballot papers, but also the logbooks that note the electoral roll number against the ballot paper serial number. I don’t think it’s likely, but I agree that we should hear a bit more about what is done after each poll with the ballot papers. I’d like to think that they are destroyed.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:21 PMbw,
El Mat’s point relates to the actual conduct of the election itself. But that’s an interesting question, and possibly one for the Electoral Commission. Do have specific reason for being concerned about the security of that information?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:22 PMMick
IMHO it is of much more concern if a third party actually knows who you voted for rather than if you voted at all. Am I concerned about the security of that information who wouldn’t?
Comrade
I don’t know specifically but I would take it the logbooks and the ballots end up in the same place.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:30 PMEl Mat
What a load of nonsense and typical sour grapes. You only want man power restricted on polling day because your party don’t have the numbers.
I was doing polling agent in Newry and Armagh and in a local polling station Dominic Bradley was politely asked to leave by the head electoral officer.
Seems the stoops forgot to send in the polling agent forms for Meigh.
That is the level of their competence.
The suggestion that Sinn Féin polling agents do anything illegal is baseless.
Nothing more than sour grapes from the stoops!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:32 PMI’ve always had concerns about the fact ballot papers can be tallied with the stub to ascertain how someone has voted and can’t think of any situation where it would be used for legitimate purposes- surely if an election was found to be so corrupt that the ballots would have to be checked in such a way, it would be more equitable to re-run the election. It’s a separate issue though.
Picador- what are you on about?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:34 PMCG,
I’m not sure that El Mat did mention Sinn Fein (or any party for that matter) in relation to any illegal practices. Can we stick to what people say, rather than what we think/wished they’ve said!!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:38 PMCan I say anything here without the torrent of abuse? What’s the point in trying to contribute to debate if you’re just going to get shouted down. I’ve made it quite clear that I think it’s pointless complaining to the media, but have the personal opinion that tightening the system to help remove any doubts that anyone may have (and indeed remove any unwarrented criticisms of those who may be operating legitimately) would be beneficial. At no point have I said the reasons given in the News Letter article were behind the SDLP’s result, therefore I fail to see how I warrent being accused of being a hack or displaying sour grapes.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:39 PMChris Gaskin
Dominic Bradley was a candidate and therefore didnt have to fill out any polling agent forms for himself - he was automatically entitled to attend any polling station in his Constituency!
What a load of lies - dont come on here and talk such nonsense - if Dominic was asked to leave the polling station then the presiding officer was wrong and should be questioned as to the reason!!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:39 PMMick
This thread is about Sinn Féin and El Mat said this
“I know that information is passed out from polling stations”
What a load of lies - dont come on here and talk such nonsense
I’m not lying, ask Dominic if you don’t believe me.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:41 PMSo Chris, were you at every single polling station to observe every single agent from every single party in the north? Information is passed out of polling stations- even Roisin admitted it above without realising it’s illegal- therefore I think that the regulations should be tightened so a) there is no doubt about the probity of polling station operation, and b) you don’t have to refute allegations if they are made against SF, as people will have no reason to make such allegations. Do you not agree?
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:45 PMHow could he be asked to leave when he doesnt have to have a form filled out to attend polling stations as a candidate - i he was asked to leave then it wasnt becuase he didnt fill out the forms - there must have been another reason - dont know what!
The SDLP may not be as organised as the Shinners but they are not that disorganised - dont make out something to be something else to ridicule them.
Yes they have made mistakes and have alot of room for improvement - I hope they do take note and as a supporter of theirs I am disappointed to see them look like a bunch of cry babies talking about how SF do this and do that.
This is not the time to do this - it is the time to learn and go forward with the same energy - they may well then beat SF cos we all know which party is the brains!!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:47 PMUs SDLP supporters are despondent enough after last week - come on please do not make us even more so by guerning about stupid things like this - this is what will lead to your ultimate downfall and make me change my midn in supporting the party - get over it and follow suit!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:51 PMIt’s been about a lot of things Chris. But I can’t see anything in El Mat’s post that names or fingers SF or any party in particular.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:51 PMIt is quite specifically illegal but very difficult to enforce.
Mick,
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but who is it illegal for? The election officers, the party agents, both??
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:56 PMthe sdlp carried the “polite “ canvas to extremes in my constituency,for the first time ever they didn’t even knock the door. Could this have been some cunning plan, a la Baldrick, suggested by one of their yankee polsters? A case of preparing your excuses before hand!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:56 PMwere you at every single polling station to observe every single agent from every single party in the north?
I can vouch for every polling station in South Armagh as I know all them poling agents and it’s my local area.
I have however been in other areas before during elections and our people are not that stupid.
Name one Sinn Féin polling agent that was ever convicted of this?
Information is passed out of polling stations
Says who, you? How do you know?
I don’t agree El Mat
Polling agents are an integral part of the electoral process. They are there for a reason.
That fact that your party lacks the man power to man them is neither here nor there!
Shanrock
I repeat, If you do not believe me ask Dominic. El Mat should be able to confirm that the Stoops failed to submit the polling agent forms for the Meigh polling station in time.
Their incompetence is only matched by their arrogance that they have a god given right to win elections.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:57 PMI’d like to think that they are destroyed.
They are kept for a year and then destroyed.
surely if an election was found to be so corrupt that the ballots would have to be checked in such a way, it would be more equitable to re-run the election.
Not necessarily - if the intimidation/corruption that was in place for the first election had not abated.
I agree we need to have a discussion about these things, but preferably not led by the Electoral Commission who seem to operate on the basis that:
a. change for the sake of change is good;
b. anything done in the past is bad;
c. making it easier to vote is the sole criterion by which reforms should be judged.An open and honest discussion among back-room boys might get further.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 09:58 PMSorry to ask a dumb question, but who is it illegal for?
It’s illegal to pass any information on who has or hasn’t voted out of the polling station while polling is going on Roisin.
It’s not illegal to keep those little tick sheet thingies that Sinn Féin have and take them out at the end of the day to use for future elections. Nor is it illegal to get the marked register and use it for the future. But passing information out during polling day is absolutely illegal, and rightly so.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 10:01 PMBut passing information out during polling day is absolutely illegal, and rightly so.
Agreed Sammy, the secrecy of the ballot must prevail.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 10:05 PMNorthern Ireland Assembly Election Guidance to Polling Agents:
“Polling agents, and indeed candidates, election agents and sub-agents, are required to maintain and to aid in maintaining the
secrecy of voting and shall not, except for some purpose authorised by law,
communicate to any person before the poll is closed any information as to -
• the name of any elector, or proxy for an elector, who has or has not applied
for a ballot paper or voted at a polling station;
• the number on the register of electors of any elector who, or whose proxy,
has or has not applied for a ballot paper or voted at a polling station;
• the official mark.” [Emphasis as original]Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 10:06 PMChris - they may have not completed polling agent forms - that fine - I cannot dispute that as I dont know - but as I said - Dominic didnt need one so why was he evicted?
Now tell the truth was it him that was told to leave or someone else cos neither Dominic nor his election agent needed forms filled in.
I am just trying to prove that you are wrong in what you are saying - you say he was asked to leave cos he didnt fill out the correct forms yet I know this would not be possible!!
Come on now - the SDLP are bad when the whinge and complain about the Shinners but the Shinners? Need I say anything about them?
We all have our problems.
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 10:06 PMWell all of the above posts say that SF have ben acting illegally byt passing on info about who has voted and who has not - polling agents are appointed who do not even sit in the polling stations for more than 5 mins. They simply call in and get a list of those who havent yet voted and race out to a car to go and get them - if this is illegal then why are we allowing it to continue?
I have also been told of one particular polling station where the polling agent hugged and greeted all the voters who were waiting in a q to get their ballot sheet.
Is that legal or not? A bit of intimidation I think!
Posted by on Mar 16, 2007 @ 10:11 PM
