Wednesday, August 06, 2008
“scientific falsehoods being purveyed in the name of religion.”
I had suggested that the elevation of DUP MLA Mervyn Storey to Chairman of the Assembly’s Education Committee could see “more skirmishes ahead in the battle against The Un-Enlightenment.” And Lo! It came to pass.. The NewsLetter today carries his comments on his “personal” belief that
“Creationism is not for the RE class because I believe that it can stand scientific scrutiny and that is a debate which I am quite happy to encourage and be part of. The issue for the current Education Minister (Caitriona Ruane] is that she tells us she’s all for equality – surely if that is the case, you can’t have one set of interpretations being taught at the expense of others.”
Time for the introduction of those guidelines, in particular - “The use of the word ‘theory’ can mislead those not familiar with science..” Fortunately Richard Dawkins was around yesterday to respond in The NewsLetter article
“I have no objection to all kinds of daft ideas being taught in comparative religion classes but in science what we should teach is what there is evidence for and children should be encouraged to examine evidence,” he said. “If this politician (Mr Storey] wants to import creationism into science classes, I’m wondering which kind of creationism – Hindu creationism, Jewish creationism, Babylonian creationism, Aztec creationism?”
Or indeed His Noodly Appendage’s creationism.. The article also makes mention of the on-going pressure from young-Earthers over educational material at the Giant’s Causeway Centre. Adds Knowledge is, indeed, power.
Pete Baker @ 10:12 AM
Rabelais
I think there would be a fair chunk of unionists that would have a secular perspective, and accept evolution as fact. I’m also convinced such a chunk exists in those from a nationalist background.
I personally find the likes of Storey, Poots, Robinson to be an embarrassment to those of us who wish NI to remain part of the UK.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 01:56 PMallegory - a visible symbol representing an abstract idea.....
The Bible demonstrates this very well. Religion is good. Believing in a higher power occurs in man naturally. Find that untouched tribe in South America, or Dhún na nGall, and you’ll find that they believe in something that is beyond their control. Spiteful, groundless, criticism, from overeducated egomaniacs with inferiority complexes is the latest metrosexual sport. At least the prats are getting some exorcise ;-0.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 02:11 PM“these types always seem very uppety don’t they?”
I suspect that’s because knowing how to spell “uppity” makes them feel all superior, a wile melee.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 02:20 PMHow about this for a scientific falsehood?
“Everyone employed by the DUP is employed on the basis of merit and the skills they bring to the job.”
The statement was issued in response to a recommendation that MP’s no longer employ their offspring.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 02:42 PMSorry guys but Dawkins has no academic credentials. He has not published in peer reviewed articles, which are the coin of the realm in academia. His uninformed scatter gun approach appeals to sections of the masses. Religion may well feet of clay but so too does Dawkins. One of the reasons he waffles on about religion and memes is most likely because he has no academic substance.
The Christian biblical thing is based like Judaism, on some interesting Babylonian myths. They have, at least, proved more enduring than Darwin’s fables.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:05 PMJesus wept Oswald. So a degree from Oxford isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on? Riddle me this, to which academic institute are you attached?
One more time just for you, instead of just repeating “he has no academic credentials” over and over, as if this were going to make your statement true, why don’t you google the man. even if you can’t handle that idea someone has kindly posted the list of academic credentials he has attained.
But then that’s as nothing when compared to grupenfuhrer Oswald the Great, who’s academic credentials are beyond question.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:16 PMSince this thread is esentially about the private views of Mervyn Storey of the DUP and his role as Chair of the Assembly Education Committee perhaps we should be looking a little closer to home if we want to evaluate academic standards and peer review and chairs handed out to suspect candidates?
Anyone want to go first?
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:22 PMWhat was it Trotsky said? If you can’t convince a fascist through argument acquaint his head with the pavement.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:23 PMPauljames: Dawkins is playing his own personal games.
John Lennox, an Armagh Prot who is a maths fellow at Oxford, easily bested Dawkins in debates you can get at line until Lennox waffled on about the Bible. (This offset Dawkins’ bad manners)
Obviusly, anyone who bases their arguments on Genesis are as weak as anyone who baes theirs on Charles Darwin, who freely admitted he was a loafer. (untrained in science btw)
If the politician you object to actually believes something, that might be prefeebale to most politicians who believe absolutely nothing.Lennox, incidentally, has written on maths in peer reviewed journals. He also wrote a defnece of God, which is as waffly as those that drip off the pens of Dawkins and his fan club.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:23 PMGotta say Mervyn has been an absolute muppet here. What is it with August that politicians seem to lose the plot completely? Mr Storey is saying that he doesn’t agree with evolution- fair enough that’s his choice and indeed I don’t think that we have the answers to all the questions but it’s a damn sight better than creationism. I’m not denying the existence of God (or Allah or Krishna or Yahweh or whatever you want to call Him) but I don’t see why evolutionary theory and religious belief have to be mutually exclusive. We can surely see a grand design in evolution and genetics if so inclined, no?
Where I do have diffs is that Mervyn is censoring and proscribling how our children should be educated. The point of education, imho, is not only to equip us for the wider world but to open our minds to that infinite variety of the universe and to encourage us to explore and question. Mervyn wants to shut that down and I,as a secular Unionist find that very worrying.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:29 PMIs there any way of finding out Mervyn Storey’s level of education. What his degree is in? From which University? This just might have a bearing on his ability to do the job.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:32 PMDriftwood,
Mervyn? a degree?? Don’t be so daft. Mervyn’s prime qualification is his Free P ideology. As noted somewhere else on Slugger, let’s remember the DUP absolutely promotes on ability, doesn’t it?
Mind you the times they are a-changing, The DUPers are begining to attract more secular and better-educated types and eventually they hoopefully be in the ascendancy and the flat-earthers will go the way of the dinosaurs ( if they even exist)Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:40 PMI honsetly thought that with the passing on of the baton to Robbo the DUP would be sharp enough to keep their more fundamentalist beliefs under wraps knowing that it would not play well with the wider non-Unionist audience. Extraordinarily it sems to have actually gotten worse. Tactically when you are in negotiation with the Englezes ( who to all intents and purposes seems to back SF at every turn ) you should not go round improving your opponent’s (SF’s) hand by behaving in a very non British way. Surely Grizzly must be saying to El Gordo ‘all we want to do is take these mad feckers off your hands’ and surely to the Englezes (even a Scottish Engleze) this must look very, very tempting.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:49 PMI don’t think we should get too hung up on Storey’s academic qualifications. These aren’t always a reliable indicator of someone’s aptitude for a particular job.
What I think is interesting about his comments is his attempt to slip creationism onto the science curriculum by framing it is an equality issue.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 03:51 PMJohn Lennox, an Armagh Prot who is a maths fellow at Oxford, easily bested Dawkins in debates
Presumably they were debates about Mathematics as opposed to Biology?
That being said hopefully some biologist (failing that, a mathematician) will take up Storey’s challenge:
“Evolution is a theory – it is not a proven fact and we are quite happy to allow our views to be subject to scientific scrutiny just the same as his views are subject to scientific scrutiny.”
One suspects however, that Mervyn Storey wouldn’t know scientific scrutiny if it smacked him in the face.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 04:10 PMdriftwood
off the Assembly site
Armoy Primary School
Ballymoney Secondary SchoolPosted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 04:10 PMSo Mervyn isn’t top of the academic tree. Fair enough, as Rabelais says that’s not the only indicator of ability.
So what does merit him this position?
The creationism in science curriculum has already been thrown out by the courts in the USA. I really cannot see this statement of his as anything other than pure ignorance.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 04:55 PMlink to court verdict:
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/12/waterloo_in_dov.html
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 05:00 PMDriftwood
In the Prof’s words
“We live in a democracy and anyone can get elected,” he said.
However the great news is that Merv can do nothing, rien, to change the NI curriculum.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 05:43 PMWhen the great thinkers of our society like Mervyn Iris and the rest of the DUP support Creation Science who are we to argue. Indeed this worthy subject is the point of some detailed research in the USA
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0604/snake.html
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/christianreader.html
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 05:44 PMFor a moment there cynic I thought these were the genuine article… I put it down to living with the DUP. There is no idea too mad that Iris or Merv won’t subscribe to blurt out in public…
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 05:51 PMSammy
I honsetly thought that with the passing on of the baton to Robbo the DUP would be sharp enough to keep their more fundamentalist beliefs under wraps knowing that it would not play well with the wider non-Unionist audience. Extraordinarily it sems to have actually gotten worse.
Do you read the Alex cartoons in the Daily Torygraph? You should, as they are a brilliant guide to the inverse logic which rules in these situations.
No-one could outdo the Doc for fundamentalism, except Ivan Foster, but now the space on the right flank is wide open. Iris has made a brave pitch but she is obviously over-educated.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 05:59 PMIt struck me as real for a few seconds! This is where I have serious issues about the ability of our local politicians, and why I think direct rule doesn’t look too bad. I fervently hope none of this stuff gets in to the mainland press.
Sammy is right when he posts that Whitehall must think we are some bunch of looney tunes.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 06:07 PMLOL
to above links .
‘Reviewer: Mrs. (Suzzanna Beth) Billy Ray Simpkins from Freehold, Iowa.’
‘We homeschool are children and my youngins near praised Jesus for the whole night when they done red this story and I mean to tell you they was so full of joy, they wanted to go out onto the roof and play angel! We is sick of them schools teachin’ kids science. I pray to Jesus that this book replaces all of them made up stories about biologenes and nature real soon!’
Merv and Iris the twin towers of ‘Intellectual Christian Unionism ‘ polithicking in the 21st century when they more properly belong to the mid 17th century :(
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 06:11 PMWillis
Alex is my first port of call online every morning.(Along with Matt) Great stuff.Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 06:15 PM
