Saturday, February 25, 2006
RTE reporter attacked and called “Orange Bastard”
RTE have just put out a few words from their injured reporter Charlie Bird, who was pursued by rioters, attacked and called “Orange Bastard” by his attackers. Several people have been arrested and put before the courts already. It may be interesting to see precisely who turns up there over the next few days. Republican Sinn Fein denies being involved, but blames the Unionists for provoking the riots.
Mick Fealty @ 07:08 PM
Kathy C
As Americans go, I find your posts extremely nauseating.... the SOL flute band can be a fully inclusive band on account that both men and womwn can join it...now naturally if not only non Protestants but non Orange men/women wanted to join them, well Freud probably would have had a name for them.
Your atempts to distort your own country´s history is disturbing...Most modern Historians don´t look at American war of independence as a revolution, but more of a colonial retreat...Most of the grudges aginst the British where about money and hey don´t forget many who fought where actually first generation settlers.
Of course some Catholics contributed, how else could they have got French support, but your attempt to turn it into a Catholic revolution is laughable.
American was built largely by Ulster Presbyterians, who travelled far and wide in your vast country. The Irish Catholics on the other hand came much later and stopped at the first port of call (New York / Boston) and set up their own little anti british communities.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2006 @ 03:01 AMposted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Doctor Who, I didn’t say the American Revolution was a Catholic Revolution...I just commented that there were Catholics in the Revolution after there were comments Catholics weren’t in it.
As for Americans not referring to the war of Independence as the American Revolution is incorrect. Even General Motors the car company is trying to get more Americans to buy their cars and are marketing them as the New American Revolution....cashing in on the pride Americans feel about THE American Revolution and trying to have it link up to purchases of their GM cars. Hope you’re feeling better.... ;o)
posted by Kathy C
Posted by on Mar 01, 2006 @ 09:33 PMKathy C
What in beelzebubs balls has GM motors and their new sales drive got to do with the American War of Independence.
What I said was that most modern historians would argue that Independence was not a Revolution...but more of a colonial retreat.
Also not one post states that Catholics didn´t take part..it is you that is making the religion of the participants an issue and it just so happens most of the leaders and founding fathers of America where of Ulster Scots stock.
Of course what happened next in your country regarding slavery and the extermination of the indigenous peoples there is another story.
Perhaps you should concentrate on the rights and issues of the under privillaged black populations in inner city projects before making comment on issues in Northern Ireland.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2006 @ 11:43 PMDespite the setback in convincing the unionists that we’re not all bad- i’m sure a lot of them saw that it was only a small minority of rioters, and that most people respect their right to march. don’t give up hope- we’ll soon trick enough of them into voting for a United Ireland based on the concept of equality and fairness. then we’ll deport the fuckers ;)
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:15 AM“America was built largely by Ulster Presbyterians, who travelled far and wide in your vast country. “
They may have built America but they didnt half balls up the 6 counties. Perhaps the dregs stayed behind in the auld country.
The one after Scotland that is.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:51 AMTo Kathy_c
One of grievances against King George from the revolutionaries was that he had emancipated the Catholics in Quebec:
“Also the act passed in the same session for establishing the Roman Catholic religion in the province of Quebec, abolishing the equitable system of English laws, and erecting a tyranny there, to the great danger, from so total a dissimilarity of religion, law, and government of the neighboring British colonies, by the assitance of whose blood and treasure the said country was conquered from France”
One of the revolutionaries first acts was an attempted invasion of Canada, which failed as the local Catholics, unsurprisingly, remained loyal to Britain. An 1812 invasion failed too, as the Catholics in Canada were wary of the anti-catholic early US, and the US militia were unreliable.
So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake. Just like deliberately provocative statements about the Sons of Ulster’s possible membership qualifications.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 09:02 AMDK
> So to present the early US history as some sort of joint catholic-protestant cause is a big mistake.
I could not agree more.
And that’s why the election of JFK in 1960 was a real break-through. His religion was a big election issue but unlike Al Smith in 1928, he was able to overcome (just) what was a big electoral handicap in a lot of swing states in the South and Mid-West.
Its only in the last thirty years that the No-Nothing tradition (the politics of No Popery) , which had a very long history in US politics, finally disappeared as an important political factor. Although there are still whiffs of it in the anti-immigrant politics of So. Cal and the border states.
Kathy_C’s grasp of US history and politics seems to be as shaky as her knowledge of the history and politics of Ireland, North and South. Well intentioned but very muddle headed.
J McConnell
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 10:15 AMPosted by Kathy C
Hi all,
In the US we have PBS television which is 348 public television stations and approx 90 million people watch it each week. The PBS programs are used in schools.
They had a series called, “Liberty, the American Revolution.”
http://www.pbs.org/ktc/liberty/index.html
and the series as the title suggest was all about the AMERICAN REVOLUTION....and it provided teachers aids to help teach the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in schools to supplement the series.
It is being taught as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION...not being taught as colonial retreat.
Why I mentioned the GM add campaign was to highlight even advertisers are cashing in on the mind set of AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Whether it is the AMERICAN REVOLUTION where we beat the british and won our independence or the AMERICAN REVOLUTION in the industrail age....one of the largest corporations in the world opted to advertise their cars based on AMERICAN REVOLUTION...and contect to people based on their concept of AMERICAN REVOLUTION.
Also, I never stated the AMERICAN REVOLUTION was
a joint protestant catholic cause. I stated Catholics fought in the AMERICAN REVOLUTION and Gen. Washington was mindful of not offending the Catholic fighters.Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 05:06 PMKathy
Using the title of a PBS series to back up ones position is, well, a bit weak.
The usual term used in US history books is either the War of Independence or, in older book, the Revolutionary Wars. Although considering the political questions that were being fought over, and the political rhetoric used, it might be more accurate to call it “The English Civil War - Round II”.
The political rhetoric of the American Colonies in the 1760’s and 1770’s had more in common with Britain in the 1640’s than France in the 1780’s and 1790’s, which was the first real revolution in the modern sense.
What happened in the American Colonies was about as revolutionary as the Glorious Revolution of 1688. A shuffling of the ruling class but little beyond that.
Now the election of Jackson in 1828, that *was* a political revolution. It unleashed political forces that directly lead to the disaster of 1861.
J McConnell
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 05:46 PMKathy C,
A couple lifetimes ago, before I bought back my soul, I was in the advertising business: tv commercials, media planning, the delicate tweaking and twisting of words … the works. I always wondered if there were any suckers out there who actually believed what they were being sold, and sadly, you have just proven that there are …
“PBS television … approx 90 million people watch it each week. “
NOT. Per the actual PBS website, “PBS serves nearly 90 million people each week”. Kathy, in this sense, ‘serves’ simply means that ’90 million people’ have access to pbs … in other words, it’s a channel on their tv remote. What’s more, that ’90 million’ is based on the assumption that each household has 2.5 people (well, that’s the # it used to be … back when I didn’t have a soul and all) in it … in other words, you then need to divide 2.5 into 90 mill. Mind you, pbs is the best damned channel in America that few people actually watch… but that’s another story.
“They had a series called, “Liberty, the American Revolution … and the series as the title suggest was all about the AMERICAN REVOLUTION....”
Wrong again. Had you done further research (or watched the dang thing when it first came out years ago, which I did), you would have found out that the series actually deals with the 25 years leading UP TO the ‘revolution.’
“It is being taught as the AMERICAN REVOLUTION...”
What’s this??? The American education system may not, after all, be giving a truthful and comprehensive account of the formation of our country???? Hmmm … I wonder if that’s why America’s students are ranked waaayyyy below a myriad of other countries when it comes to such silly things as world history and mathematics.
“Why I mentioned the GM add campaign was to highlight even advertisers are cashing in on the mind set of AMERICAN REVOLUTION … ....one of the largest corporations in the world opted to advertise their cars based on AMERICAN REVOLUTION”
And now we’re back to the whoring and pimping of America. Yes, middle America clings desperately to the ‘American Revolution’, as well as the ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ and, oh, yeah, that God blesses our country over any other. Go GM, go! Sell your cars not on quality or gas efficiency, but on the desperate xenophobic hopes of frightened people … people too damn scared to find out what the world really thinks of them when they’re just trying to put food on the table and keep their kids clothed. Go GM, go! And good on you, Kathy, for backing GM up!Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:05 PMPostscript: the 6:05 post atttributed to Doctor Who was actually written by SlugFest.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:07 PMposted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Sorry I missed typed the web site....it is:
http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/index.html
or you can go do a web search type in American Revolution and it will come up as “Liberty, The American Revolution.”
J. McConnell, I don’t feel when 348 tv stations air a show that states the American Revolution was called just that...the American Revolution is a weak point...it demo’s that in the US the American Revolution is being taught as just that...the American Revolution. Now, what makes history and political anylsis great is people can study and come up with their own theories and ideas why certain things happened. Yet, that does not negate the fact....those events are being taught and identified by the phrase....AMERCIAN REVOLUTION. have a great day.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:10 PMCathum
You could be right there, you could also say the same about the Catholic Irish who didn´t make it to New York / Boston.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 06:20 PMKathy C
It seems we are talking at cross-purposes here.
I did a quick dig and discovered that the only place that commonly uses the term ‘American Revolution’ are grade school and high school history books, and t.v programmes targeted at that particular audience. Which is why I have not run into the term very often. I tend to get my history from academic and scholarly books rather than grade school text books.
I also had a quick look at the PBS site about the TV program. I have vague memories of watching a bit of the first episode on KQED in the late ‘90’s but as it was all rather high school fluff I soon lost interest. Not a patch on the American Experience documentary series which is t.v history at its finest.
J McConnell
Posted by on Mar 02, 2006 @ 08:31 PMposted by Kathy C
Hi all,
J McConnell, I’m glad you looked at the site so you would know what I was referring to...thank you for that. Also, I’m glad that you understand that American children are taught in grade school and high school that it was the AMerican Revolution and since the majority of people do not go on for further historical anylsis of American history in colleges and major in other subjects other than American history...the vast American public think of the war as and in terms of...the American Revolution. Thanks again and have a great weekend.
posted by Kathy C
Posted by on Mar 03, 2006 @ 07:11 PM
