Wednesday, February 01, 2006
Robinson: a long time before the IRA is ready
Peter Robinson was interviewed on BBC News 24 after the Sinn Fein press conference and dismissed Martin McGuinness’ anger as ‘a comedy interlude and a farce’. He pointed out that the IMC was hardly a DUP body: the IMC being made up “a representative of Her Majesty’s Government, the Republic of Ireland’s Government and the United States. He further made the point that Lord Alderdice had been perfectly agreeable to Sinn Fein as speaker of the Assembly.
With regard to the apparent clash between IMC and IIDC, he said ” John de Chastellain indicated that he had had a report that the IRA still had a range of weapons, but because the IRA with whom he has channels (as the IMC does not) denied it, and the Guards in the south had no reports of it, he would not confirm.
Robinson’s sting in the tail: “A lot of intelligence has come from people like Denis Donaldson. I’m very sure Martin McGuinness would like see were some more of that information came from”. He then pointed to his own party’s proposals to get politics back on track, suggesting that it would be a very long time before Sinn Fein were ready to resume executive government.
Mick Fealty @ 01:56 PM
Robinson: a long time before the IRA is ready
He must have got a positive medical report on Paisley.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:21 PMlmao Henry…
But seriously, more procrastination from the DUP, wouldn’t they love to go back to pre 1994, you can’t bomb the prods into a UI but the DUP are terrified of being talked into one…
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:25 PM“In its report to the two governments, also published today, the IICD said there was “no evidence” to suggest IRA weapons had been retained.
The IICD, headed by General John de Chastelain, notes that “reliable” Garda sources suggest that there is “no intelligence to suggest any arms have been any arms have been retained.” The IICD also said an IRA representative had told the decommissioning body that “no IRA arms had been retained or placed in long-term hides.”
“Reports” without evidence are just hearsay. The securocrats at it again…I heard on “The Big Bite” on RTE1 that they have a file of Blair’s radical days and may have a hold on him that prevents him getting rid of the anti-peace-process ones who are always stirring up trouble.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:29 PMReally is there anyone, anyone, out there who honestly believed that this IMC report would do anything but give more reasons to the DUP to refuse to restore power sharing?
(Their report is even worse than the leaks suggested)Does anyone now seriously believe that the subsequent report in April will be any different? Surely, those phantom guns that the IRA holds will still be in their possession then…I mean, how do you get rid of what you do not have and which could not be found by the IIDC or the Gardai. In any case, if the IRA so desired couldn’t they always buy more guns…decommissioning was always a political gesture and one fulfilled…ditto the apparently honest attempts of the IRA to move to peaceful means, etc. (if you take the positive signals from the report)
The IMC have scraped the bottom of the barrel to find all the negatives in between the huge mountain of positives. Must we really wait until every i is dotted and every t crossed before negotiations start? It is ludicrous.
So…no progress then…and surely none before the summer and on until September.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:30 PMHeres the solution the PSNI are fit for purpose the guns are obviously in the North. The Policing Board should call an emergency meeting and instruct the PSNI to get the IRA guns that they brief the IMC about. Its time to put up or shut up. If they are not readily found they should put their knowledge in the public domain or otherwise the PSNI Special Branch will have a veto over political movement for ever and a day.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:37 PMIf it was indeed a hatchet job, it was very subtle.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:47 PMWhat a ridiculous lot those Unionists have become. No group in history has ever made such a rapid transition from arrogant, self-righteous supremacy to whinging victimhood. They just can’t get it, can they, that the old days are gone for ever! No more B-specials, no more “Croppy lie down”, no more discrimination across the board, no more first preference treatment in every respect just for being born a Protestant. Of course the IRA probably have a few guns, just in case. So what! They only had a few in 1969 when the full force of the Orange state’s terror machine was unleashed on the decent Nationalist people of the Six Counties, but they did all right in the end. It’s time for the rejectionist Unionists to join their saner moderate brethren and get on with making the new dispensation work. The way that madman Blair is taking Britain, the Unionists may well be glad to have a United Ireland to go to when the artificial concept the UK goes belly up!
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 03:51 PMMick,
If indeed it was then it needn’t be anything but subtle…
One bad word is all it takes, you know that!
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:01 PMM.Gibbs
Yup,
The problem is that although self-righteous supremacy is a crime by most educated people’s standards, it’s not in statute.
The DUP play a smart move is ostensibly distancing themselves from crime and paramilitaries.
If hate crime was a remit in the IMC report, they would be monitoring it, and members of the DUP would have to answer for it.
There’s so much evidence over the years, of Paisley stirring up sectarian tensions, which did not exist prior to his ascendency.
Just go through the speeches.
“Incubators of Rome” + “Tell Bertie Aherne to get his dirty hands off.. ”
Last summer talking about a fire that would ignite and never go away.
Its sickening that we have to endure this.
No-one has the skills to take him on, and expose him all the way on this, dare I say it, spirit level.
Its a clever cunning disguise.
Spiritual wickedness in high places; some of the rastas I’ve talked to and chilled with understand this concept intuitively.
They know its CRIME.
Its white man’s crime.
It takes a king to defeat a king.Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:11 PM“If it was indeed a hatchet job, it was very subtle.”
Subtle or not, it has had the desired result for the DUP. Just enough negatives to hold up progress. Just enough postives to satisfy their (the IMC’s) political paymasters. Handy that.
They have, in addition, pulled the question of retained arms out of the hat at the last minute. Is this an attempt to create a new focus of dispute? It was not mentioned in any of the many leaks beforehand. (Strange the rapid public disagreement with the IIDC, is it not, suggesting a level of official irritation at the IMC report).
Notice that the issue of arms is also the one item of the report that the IRA took issue with in their statement. Why? Because it is likely not to be true. They appear to accept all the other findings of the report with good grace. These other findings show that the IRA leadership has moved to a purely political agenda…
The issue of arms appears to be the one that will now cause the most trouble.
In my opinion the report clearly shows that the IRA is no longer a threat to the democratic process in the 6 counties. Surely, that is all that can be asked of the organisation. If it is still involved in crime, then that is a matter solely for the police and not one that should be holding up political talks.
In any case, tens of thousands of Sinn Fein voters voted for that party, irrespective of the question of IRA wrongdoings but on the basis of Sinn Fein’s political policies. They have the right to be represented by whoever they wish.In light of this report which shows the IRA as winding down, not using intelligence for anything other than political ends, etc., the govt. should take the bull by the horns now and force power sharing. The situation by September and onwards may not be so propitious…if McGuinness is anything to go by anger is rising…
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:15 PMThere’s a lot more than just one word in this report. I suspect it is going to get pored [sic] over for days. What I see/hear is a lot of jockeying for position.
On the one hand it is incontrovertably true that the DUP sat (albeit with stated caveats) in an Executive government when the IRA was almost completely free to do what it wanted short of offensive ‘military action’. And that they ‘seemed’ ready to return to such 12 months ago last December.
On the other it is also true that the Northern Bank robbery (whether by the IRA or not), the killing of Robert McCartney and the subsequent shutting up of witnesses has handed the DUP a whip hand in these latter stages of the process. They said then that as a result, the price would go up.
We are (regrettably) in hair trigger territory now where the slightest touch will warrent further and further delay. But, politically, I cannot see a way around it.
The bottom line is that Sinn Fein, if it is serious about a restart to politics in Northern Ireland, needs the DUP’s signiture on the bottom of the paper.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:49 PM‘The bottom line is that Sinn Fein, if it is serious about a restart to politics in Northern Ireland, needs the DUP’s signiture on the bottom of the paper.’
The statement by Dermot Ahern that failure to restart the Assembly will eventually lead to the two governments moving forward on a joint initative that includes greater co-operation is a prospect that will privately delight a lot of republicans.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:52 PMThe bottom line is that Sinn Fein, if it is serious about a restart to politics in Northern Ireland, needs the DUP’s signiture on the bottom of the paper.
Mick
That is only for as long as the British give the DUP a veto over the restoration of the institutions. Far from having the whip-hand the DUP are in the pathetic position of being afraid to take office for fear of being outflanked on their right or betrayed by their founder.
That is why nationalists must come together here and in America.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 04:55 PMThe bottom line is that Sinn Fein, if it is serious about a restart to politics in Northern Ireland, needs the DUP’s signiture on the bottom of the paper.
Mick
How true you are. But you forget to add the caveat that, if the DUP are serious about a restart to politics, then THEY need Sinn Fein’s signature on the bottom of the paper.
This will become clear in the days and weeks ahead, as the DUP attempt to reach for an Assembly talking shop without an Executive and active All-Ireland bodies.
Personally, I believe republicans have less to lose from a prolonged period of political stagnation in the six counties than unionists.
Next year will see a bouyant Sinn Fein double (perhaps treble?) its seat tally in Leinster House, a situation likely to trigger Fianna Fail/ Labour/ SDLP to move in a more concrete manner to develop themselves on an all-island basis, if only to arrest the growth of Sinn Fein.
Indeed, it could be the case that the next Assembly elections - in 2008/9/10 (take your pick) will see more than one all-Ireland party on the ticket.
Hardly an advance for unionism.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:00 PM“On the other it is also true that the Northern Bank robbery (whether by the IRA or not), the killing of Robert McCartney and the subsequent shutting up of witnesses has handed the DUP a whip hand in these latter stages of the process. They said then that as a result, the price would go up.”
The price did go up…and was paid…
with decommissioning and a clear move to purely political methods, neither of which were easy for the IRA to contenance.It is for the govts. now to make the DUP see that the price has been paid and to restore devolution. This IMC business is all pantomime. The Brit. govt., with this latest report, could, in full confidence and at no risk, now that it is dealing with an emasculated IRA, restore Stormont tomorrow, and merely wait to see if the DUP would deign to attend and take their executive positions…I doubt they would have to wait long. One may ask, why the reticence of the govt. to do this? Does it believe that strategically the IRA has devoted itself to politics or not? It should be supporting this difficult move by the IRA not pandering to unionist paranoia. I imagine in Israel they have wet dreams about Hamas fulfilling a fraction of the compromises the IRA have, and yet we are told (with straight faces) that these are STILL not enough by Robinson and others…amazing…
“The bottom line is that Sinn Fein, if it is serious about a restart to politics in Northern Ireland, needs the DUP’s signiture on the bottom of the paper.”
It does not. It needs only that the Brit. govt. acknowledge the rights of Sinn Fein voters…progress should not depend on when the DUP thinks Sinn Fein has, in some way, been ‘punished’ enough for past transgressions.
When will pressure be put on the DUP to live up to ITS obligations, that is the question.Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:03 PM‘What a ridiculous lot those Unionists have become.’
M. Gibbs:
Indeed. Today there the unionists are saying the same thing today as every other democratic party in the isles. All the GB parties, Alliance, the SDLP, HMG and the ROI government are all on the same page. Asking for the Provos to stop the illegal activity that they are still engaged in. How ridiculous.
You rant is aimed at the unionists, but they didn’t come up with the IMC report - the IMC did. If you want to have a rant, have a rant at the IMC. It’s not controlled by the DUP or UUP.
Rant all you like. Every democrat in the isles and beyond can see the truth, no matter what PSF and their drone supporters claim about the PIRA being squeaky clean. The unionists may stick to their story about the Provos, while others waver in an effort to give the Provos the benefit of the doubt between reports, but when the report comes out it turns out that the unionists have been spot on yet again.
It’s the Provos who look ridiculous, not unionists. And they are alone in that.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:10 PMspot on seabhac
The DUP have to be faced down, its indicative of just how scared they are, ( proof of lying )that they are hissing away in the face of reality.
We have to find a way of calling their bluff.Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:13 PM‘It is for the govts. now to make the DUP see that the price has been paid and to restore devolution.’
Says a Provisional supporter.
seabhac siulach:
Did you not notice all the democrats agreeing that the Provos have to give up all illegal activity?
You can rant and rave about the DUP all you want but in the end all the democrats including the 2 governments are sticking to what has been agreed - that the PIRA has to give up all illegal activity in order for its political wing to be accepted as wholly democratic.
This isn’t about the DUP, its about the Provos. No matter what you think, the price HASN’T been paid yet.
‘In my opinion the report clearly shows that the IRA is no longer a threat to the democratic process in the 6 counties. Surely, that is all that can be asked of the organisation.’
Well in my opinion, and its one shared by all the democrats who have commented today, the report clearly shows that the IRA is still a threat to the democratic process in Northern Ireland.
You have your opinion because you are siding with the Provisional position. You think enough has been done, but to democrats that isn’t true. What they have done so far is NOT all that can be asked of them. It is clear that they have to do more.
When are you folks going to work out that the Provos actually have to stop doing illegal stuff, and not just claim that it has all stopped? So long as you remain in a fantasy world where everything is the fault of securocrats or unionists or the DUP, there is going to be no place for PSF in democratic politics.
It’s all up to the Provos in other words.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:22 PMMick
“We are (regrettably) in hair trigger territory now where the slightest touch will warrant further and further delay”.
Could become worse than that; this is deeply depressing, will we ever get out of this hole? The Republican movement have handed the high ground to the DUP. In the meantime the loyalist thugs are laughing into their pints.
As for the PSNI and suggestion of hidden agendas and the Government and its sleazy little side deals will we ever feel confidence in what we are being told?
In the end one has to ask does the findings of the IMC really matter? Are we all being more than a little sanctimonious? Have we lost perspective and any sense of an over view?
SF screwed the UUP so suppose they are reaping what they have sowed, the problem is we are all the losers and this and related issues are destabilising.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:22 PM‘The DUP have to be faced down, its indicative of just how scared they are, ( proof of lying )that they are hissing away in the face of reality.
We have to find a way of calling their bluff.’
spirit-level:You folks are beyond belief. It’s all a DUP plot, isn’t it?
Did you actually read any of the comments today. The groups you have to face down are: all of the GB political parties, the DUP, the UUP, the SDLP, Alliance, HMG and the ROI government. In essence, they are all on the same page on this issue. They all expect the PIRA to stop all illegal activity before there can be any more movement.
The DUP may be hissing in the face of your reality, but that reality is actually a Provo generated fantasy world, where the Provos are squeaky clean. Here’s reality - no one is buying it. All the other democratic parties are with the DUP on this now. Some may waver between IMC reports in order to give the Provos the benefit of the doubt, but when the report comes out, all the democrats band together.
You can whine on about some DUP plot all you like, but again that’s just a construction in your fantasy world.
It’s not about any DUP veto over anything. It’s about the choice that the Provos have to make. Provo illegal activity is what is holding up PSF being accepted as wholly democratic by everyone, nothing else.
The DUP aren’t scared. They’re probably laughing, as every democrat is on their side on this issue.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:31 PMsome of the rastas I’ve talked to and chilled with
Ouch, did you really say this?
That’s a hairs breadth away from stating that You’re down with the kids
Anymore comments like that and I’m calling in the cliché police.Carry on…..
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:37 PM‘The Republican movement have handed the high ground to the DUP.’
‘SF screwed the UUP so suppose they are reaping what they have sowed.’
Crataegus:
Are you noticing a common theme yet?
It’s always been about a commitment by PSF/PIRA to democracy and nothing but democracy. The common theme is that the Provos always try to get away with something less than that.
First they tried to get into power while still keeping the guns. That didn’t work, so now they are trying to get into power while still being involved in a bit of illegal activity as opposed to a lot.
Thankfully all the democrats are holding firm on that. So it’s not about the UUP or DUP. It’s about all the democrats expecting that the PRM will give up all illegal activity. That’s what the GFA calls for and the PRM is being held to it.
It’s their choice. Wholly democratic means wholly democratic. It doesn’t mean 90% democratic or anything else.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:38 PMharpo
you got it upside down
No-one is saying the IRA ain’t sinners, but they’ve paid. The truth is its the liars and hypocrits in the DUP, that like to pretend to sit in heavenly places. Unforgiving, judgemental snakes.
If the good lord came down tomorrow, he’s spew the DUP out of his mouth and comfort republicans, as he did on earth.
That’s TRUTH,
tafkabo
I’m delighted and educated to have spent time with rastas, and all other kinds of folk around the world, as I ain’t scared of another mans colour, creed, or religion. Are you?Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:49 PMSpirit-level speak with forked tongue.
Him big mighty heap proud of respecting all creeds and religions, but him mighty big judge when it comes to DUP and their religion.
Me-um advise him to lay of the peace pipe, else we start to call him Dances with fools
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:57 PMSL:
Really, if you are going to say things like that: 1 you need to drop the ad hominem tags; and 2 you need to stump up something tangible to back up what you are saying. I’ve no doubt you feel what you say. But that’s not sufficient for debate.
Posted by on Feb 01, 2006 @ 05:59 PM
