Thursday, August 23, 2007
Robinson: it’s all about stability…
Peter Robinson makes his pitch for the new devolutionary deal with Sinn Fein. For those who thought this was against the run of the party’s policy, this early blogged Irish Times interview on Slugger gives an indication of where they were headed even in late 2002. Essentially, he is selling the deal on the stability he believes it offers:
people can carp, grumble and complain that perfection had not been achieved. Again my judgment was that we had surrounded the process with sufficient safeguards to control any potential abuse, that moving into the Executive could provide the momentum for further progress.
The question remains (as Robinson himself so succinctly put it back in 2002): do we have a system that allows the two parties to operate beyond the need for trust?
Slugger O'Toole Admin @ 09:33 AM
It’s all gong and no dinner from Robinson with his talk of stability and making Northern Ireland a better place for EVERYBODY if he’s not willing to support an Irish Language Act with a practical edge to recognise that there’s more than one cultural identity in ‘this here province’.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 10:27 AMAn Irish Language Act won’t put any dinner on my plate, some new jobs and an improved economy on the other hand.....
I wonder who’s priorities are in order really oilibhear.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:09 AMwhole thing is a bit monsters under the bed
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:14 AMNo, it may not put dinner on your plate, directly, but it will make the north a better and more tolerant place in which to live for everybody. People - and business - is attracted by tolerance, by diversity, by respect for culture. That’s what sets places apart. Do you think the like of Google would want a base in Belfast if it were to be a city intolerant of diverse cultures. Google understands the value of respecting diversity and, so, it has an Irish language search engine. http://www.google.ie If a global giant can see its way towards making a gesture towards Irish, a practical gesture, why can’t the Northern Ireland Executive’s Minister for Finance see the light in a similar way?
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:35 AMYou angling for a spot in our blogging team Oili? That way you can start the threads on your favourite subject yourself rather than turning all semi related others around to it.
I’m only half joking. We could do with the reinforcement to our poor Irish language output.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:47 AM“People - and business - is attracted by tolerance, by diversity, by respect for culture.”
Really, and nothing to do with Corporation tax or other financial incentives. Businesses are just that, businesses motivated by money and not by ‘cultural diversity’. If companies chose to locate in the Republic it certainly wasnt anything to do with cultural diversity, or how they treat their minorities. It was cold, hard, cash-driven financial decisions.
To argue that Microsoft will suddenly leap into Northern Ireland if we all run about speaking Irish is utter rubbish. Google can have an Irish search engine, but I dont really see how that equates to passing legislation (costly legislation) where the money could be used for better things instead.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:57 AMLooks as though Robinson is attempting to re-package the GFA using sugary words pitched for re-sale to Northern Ireland, in order to divert suspicions away from the fact that a ‘fair’ deal was never renegotiated.
The conclusion being that this could have been achieved many years ago only for the over-reactions of his party to the principle of power-sharing and regional reform of public services.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 11:59 AMMick, how do you say ‘One trick pony’ in Irish?
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:16 PM“The last census revealed that the demographic threat to the future of Northern Ireland has disappeared ...” Phew! That was close one!
Nice thinking, Peter, Northern Ireland is its borders, not its people, eh?
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:20 PMCapaillÃn cleais céanna.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:26 PMI dare say Google were attracted to Dublin by low taxes and an concentration of well educated ENGLISH speaking graduates and an assurance that Irish language enthusiasts could be easily fobbed off by a gesture - like an Irish language search engine
I’m no fan of Robos but for Republicans to say he needs to demonstrated his committment to cultural diversity is a bit rich. One they spent 30 years particpating in the ultimate denial of diversity - an anti British terrorist campaign. Two it is Republicans that have foolishly made the language into a ‘totem pole’ - if they had not tried to use Irish a weaponPosted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 12:45 PMI really don’t see the need to engage with ad hominem attacks from all and sundry here, kicked off as it were by Mick himself. I dare say my comment was as relevant to the thread as any other, more than most. Robinson mentioned the Irish Language Act in his diatribe. The poor Irish language output here is more to do with the fact that as soon as a post on the Irish Language goes up - or through Irish - it attracts trolls to grind their anti-Irish axe with spurious arguments and way off track tangents.
if people don’t believe that diversity of culture is part of the mix in a successful economy, they have a lot to learn and I really couldn’t be arsed showing the light.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 01:19 PMOilibhear
A diverse culture has a role to play, but it is a very minor role indeed, and if you’re rubbish about the Irish Language Act being the route to economic prosperity in Northern Ireland has been exposed then at least admit that.Also, why exactly is an Irish Language Act the way to achieve diversity. Why not provide money to help those people who actually have difficulty understanding English. Provide real language services for migrant workers and help them integrate fully into life here. That would show some real diversity, but of course for some, diversity only means chucking some money at either Irish or Ulster-Scots because that is ‘diverse’ enough for them.
Irish gets money chucked at it by the truckload, and I dont believe either Irish or U-S should be funded actually. If we’er going to have a Language act then a real minority languages act could actually do something positive towards diversity rather than another politically motivated trojan horse of Oirish culture or language.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 01:38 PMif you’re rubbish
It seems that English literacy classes are required by more than immigrants.
I didn’t say the Irish language was the route to economic prosperity. My point was the Irish language is part of our cultural life and rather than being seen as a burden, which is your view and that of Robinson, it’s an asset, which is what Google believes. And I know whose stock is more valuable....
As for your false comparison between Irish and Ulster Scots, Irish is a language spoken by thousands in the north every day. I can refer you the recent Millward Brown survey which says that 17% of the population speak/understand Irish. I don’t know what the figures for Ulsters Scots are but I know not even its most stalward exponents Nelson McCausland or Lord Laird speak it and no-one at the Ulster Scots Agency does.
It’s a funny way you have of celebrating diversity - forcing migrants to attend English classes being on, it appears. That’s really progressive thinking that is.
Irish doesn’t have ‘money chucked at it’ by the truck load. My contention is that the state gets far better value from the money invested in Irish medium education that it does from most other areas of expenditure.
I suggest you inform yourself as to the issues before commenting further - and you could also acquire yourself a copy of a good English grammar book.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 02:07 PMPosted by Belfast Gonzo on Aug 23, 2007 @ 01:16 PM
>Mick, how do you say ‘One trick pony’ in Irish?Miaowww
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 02:10 PMI have never stated Irish to be a “burden” and from what I can see neither has Peter Robinson, however, it doesn’t require legislation to develop cultural diversity. And frankly if you’re happy to accept some tokenism from Google you think you’d be happy to accept a lot less than an Irish Language Act.
As for speaking/understanding Irish - did the survey go into any depth as to what level of understanding they have. Does my knowledge of what Aer Lingus or Toiseach means count me in there too? Most people I know who might be considered to have ‘knowlege’ of Irish wouldnt cover them for more than about 10 minutes if they were actually required to speak it.
“My contention is that the state gets far better value from the money invested in Irish medium education that it does from most other areas of expenditure.”
Really? On what basis then? What pound for pound value is there from having yet another sector of educational provision. One single education provider would actually give some value for money.
I have never, ever, once heard a conversation being carried out in Irish. Maybe they want to develop Belfast’s 17th different ‘quarter’ so that people can use it as some kind of plastic paddy tourist attraction, but in business, commerce or even socially there is little use of Irish other than people wanting to say “cheers” differently when they’re having a drink or talking about “craic”. Hardly the expansive use of Irish which requires Government money to be used to fund it though.
Educating children in whatever language or culture you choose is indeed your choice, and the choice should be there, but it should not have to be funded by the tax-payer.
The last refuge of the Irish speaker is of course having a pop at Ulster Scots. I’m no particular fan of the language, but according to you of course its culturally secondary to your ‘superior’ Irish. Why shouldnt there be an Ulster-Scots educational sector then? Surely that would only add to your aim of ‘cultural diverstiy’, or does that only stretch as far as diversity for nationalists?
I never once mentioned “forcing” anyone into English classes, but dont let your prejudice get in the way of the facts. I mentioned provision for people who dont have English as their first language. They of course are free to take it up or not as they choose. However, it would be a lot more useful to help people from the Chinese community here communicate with their doctor rather than have some spide from West Belfast learn the ‘mother tongue’. Maybe you disagree though.
As for the grammer issue - pedantry is highly amusing but when typing fairly quickly I dont always get it perfect. However, maybe we would be better off teaching children how to communicate without the need for “txt spk” rather than in Irish.
I await the next glowing reference of Google being the saviour of minority culture across the globe. Never mind that they want to track every single movement we make on the internet, but you’re obviously a fan so I’ll let you revel in their marvel. They should have you on the payroll btw. I’ve never heard anyone attempt so valiantly to make a multi-national corporation sound like the Salvation Army before! Full marks for effort at least.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 02:38 PMGoogle didn’t develop the Google as Gaeilge - anyone can do it with the toolkits. That’s why there was a Klingon one too. Didn’t cost Google a cent.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 02:44 PMAhhh Ringo - don’t burst his bubble. I’m sure Google were just trying to ‘develop diversity’ amongst the Klingon community. After all, the outer space economy is so poor that it needs all the help it can attracting jobs and investment.
Maybe Klingon medium educational sectors are the answer - apparently they’re a licence to print money!
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 02:50 PMAs long as interested persists in his negative and mean spirited attacks on the Irish language, I see no point in debating with him.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 03:56 PMAhh, the old chestnut. Its fine for you and others to paint Ulster-Scots in whatever light you choose - see repeated claims about its language/dialect status, but woe betide anyone who dare question the saintly Irish language and those who claim to speak it.
If you’re not going to debate anyone who is a bit negative about something you like then you wont have too many debates. You see, debating people you agree with isn’t very much fun and doesn’t tend to last very long.
Mind you, if you do find something better to defend Irish other than the fact you can search the internet in it then please come back and we can pick up where we left off.
Anyway, I’m away back to my Kingon search engine.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 04:02 PMOops, for the pedants among you (not necessarily you olibhear), I of course meant Klingon, not Kingon......
Have to keep on the right side of the language police! ;-)
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 04:04 PM“People - and business - is attracted by tolerance, by diversity, by respect for culture.â€
China being the prime example Mr. Robinson. Tolerance.... Oh wait a minute.
Ringo,
“Google didn’t develop the Google as Gaeilge - anyone can do it with the toolkits. That’s why there was a Klingon one too. Didn’t cost Google a cent.”Wasn’t it done by Google employees situated in Dublin, working in their free time?
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 04:20 PMUnionists seem to have realised recently that constantly referring to Britain as ‘the mainland’ has the obvious effect of making the idea of moving there seem more attractive to their offspring.
Maybe on more mature reflection they will realise that their over reaction to public demonstrations of Irish culture will only have a similar effect given the fact that Irish national culture is thriving and expanding all the time.
It was good to see Scots Irish links celebrated recently in the local media but there are considerably larger feisanna going on regularly and eventually they will have to be reported, just as the GAA eventually after years of effort is now receiving attention commensurate with the support it receives from the public.
It is in unionist’s own interests to help build a culture which reflects all the communities who live here rather than hanging onto the failed ‘simply British’ ethos of the UUP.
If Robinson’s speeches reflect an attempt to move the DUP in that direction then they should be welcomed.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 04:45 PMYour position appears to be that you believe the Irish language to be ‘alien’ to Ireland. That’s not merely negative, mean spirited and offensive, it’s plain wrong.
The Irish language is an indigenous language spoken by thousands of people every day. If you haven’t heard it being spoken, that’s more an indication of the limited social circles in which you circulate than it is a judgement on the widespread use of the language.
I don’t think it’s particularly difficult to write coherently and accurately in Irish or in English - but that’s the benefit of a bilingual education for you.
As far as I can make out opposition to the Irish language from the unionist community appears to be founded on ignorance, bigotry and small mindedness rather than this economic canard to which we’re regularly pointed. When someone points out that a global corporation, not the only one, try Microsoft for instance, thinks that the Irish language is worthy of their attention, then they attack google. Shucks, perhaps it’s going to be more difficult than we thought to attract business to this here province.
You want economic stability, you’d better accept that there’s more than one culture in the north.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 05:24 PMAnd 32 Irish medium primary schools...i thank means got a little bit more credibility than Klingon.....
Posted by on Aug 23, 2007 @ 06:08 PM
