Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Rebranding the UDA
More reports today on the conference, noted here yesterday, to workshop how that £1.2million of public funds might be spent.. Apparently it’s to be chaired by Sir George Quigley and it seems that the invited guests will include not just the Chief Constable, but “US Consul General Dean Pittman and representatives from the main churches” among the “more than 100 stakeholders”.. [any elected representatives? - Ed] And, according to Frankie Gallagher of the UDA-aligned UPRG
He also said one of the things that had been discussed was developing new flag designs that moved away from paramilitary emblems.
Pete Baker @ 10:40 AM
Just what we need.....more flags to mark out territory.....maybe the re-branding will use up all the £1.2M.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 10:54 AMJust what we need.....more flags to mark out territory.....maybe the re-branding will use up all the £1.2M.
It almost certainly will, considering they shelled out £3m on white paint last year.
PS was SE Antrim ‘brigade’ invited to this conference?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 11:26 AMThey need to watch on those flags though.
A number of years back there was a bad batch of Red Hand of Ulster flegs where the fingers on the red hand were spread and not together…
I heard Frankie Gallagher saying that loyalists communities hadn’t done this ‘transformation’ before and would need help. IF the UDA & so on would feck away off that would be a great contribution.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:00 PMIf it wasn’t for the UDA, who incidentally had to patrol their streets with waterpistols painted black when the IRA first attacked them with Haughey’s guns, the protestant community in the North would have been anihilated, along with most of the worthwhile buildings up there (built and funded by the British - isn’t architecture often very beautiful and of course should be appreciated).
Stop comparing Ian Paisley and the DUP to Sinn Fein, the UDA/UVF are their protestant equivalents as it is they who fought them hands-on for thirty years and who had to stoop to their atrocities in order to stay alive and keep protestant culture in Northern Ireland living, with nothing but condemnation from both sides in return.
If I were them, with no support or level of understanding from anyone, I would have turned to criminality a long time ago. It is about time the world gave them a second of their time, when they’re not being absorbed in the propaganda of the IRA/Sinn Fein, to try and understand them for who they are. Ordinary people, like you and I, who were born and who were born into the horrific circumstances of war.
Stop buying into stereotypes and taking on board everything the media and the ‘machine’ comes out with, the communities of the UDA are more interested in earing a crust and family life to feel they have to prove themselves to anyone especially the media. Come down off your high horse all you ultra-Irish Nationalists, when it comes down to it, if someone was shooting your family, friends and burning your home like the IRA did just because you were born, would you not stand and fight? Where is your sense of humanity now..?Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:00 PMWe’re not going away so get used to it
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:04 PM‘Peace’-
“If I were them, with no support or level of understanding from anyone...”
The poor UDA, people just don’t get them, do they? Clearly all of society is wrong and these murderous racketeers are right. Curse you society! [rolls eyes]
“I would have turned to criminality a long time ago.”
Erm, isn’t it a universally recognised fact that they did turn to criminality a long time ago?
Here’s an idea- instead of asking for help (aka money) to disappear, why don’t they just shut down with immediate effect instead of looking something in return?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:22 PMPeace, have you finished with your violin yet ?
Maybe you and poster “UDA” could tell us when those fine civic gentlemen of the UDA should be giving up their guns ? You will get an extra 10 points if your answer does not refer to some spurious threat from dissident republicans.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:23 PMCome down off your high horse all you ultra-Irish Nationalists, when it comes down to it, if someone was shooting your family, friends and burning your home like the IRA did just because you were born, would you not stand and fight?
Yeah, and we could have called ourselves the IRA or something…
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:37 PMA bunch of thugs would drive around in a car’s looking for Catholic’s to shoot or carve up.
Why? Because they where a bunch of sectarian gangsters most of them would be classified as serial killers, using a political situation as an excuse to work out there warped fantasies.
Then there was the other crowd,they would parade around in military gear trying to look like an army. When in fact they where carving out particular areas for extortion and drug dealing.
There was never any real politics and it still goes on today.Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:41 PMWell judging from the previous few comments,
‘...lack of understanding...’
I rest my case.The blatant sectarian biggotry latent just under the surface of the ‘funny, laid-back, loveable irish’ of the Free State, which appears to be taken for granted as being latently acceptable and justified wouldn’t encourage any UDA person to give up a gun. More encouragement please!
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:42 PMEver seen the protestant women up there? Mmmm. Well, there’s one good reason for peace…
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:46 PM‘Peace’-
“The blatant sectarian biggotry [sic] latent...”
I don’t believe I have ever murdered anyone on account of their religion, so who’s the sectarian bigot- me or a UDA man?
<i>"surface of the ‘funny, laid-back, loveable irish’ of the Free State...”
What’s the Free State got to do with anything?
“wouldn’t encourage any UDA person to give up a gun.”
So what are they intending to do with those guns? Apart from that, it’s no one’s job to encourage them to dispense with their guns- they shouldn’t have them in the first place.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:49 PMApologies for the bad italicisation in post 12.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:52 PMAnd the IRA aren’t still involved in racketeering, thuggery, and beatings. Oh sorry! Sir Gerry told us that they weren’t - how could I have been so stupid, I must have been hallucinating lastnight when those four IRA heavies came to my door to beat anyone in sight for havin a party!
The only reason the IRA are seen as justified in their cause is because they lost the war - 1690, 1922 and 1998. Amazing what losing wars does to people isn’t it. Poor martyrs eh? What was it all for?Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:53 PMAs trolling goes that last one was a true classic…
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:06 PMRC from NB,
Hint: When you are trolling and pretending to be a Catholic it is worthwhile remembering that only protestants refer to ‘Catholics’ as ‘Roman Catholics’.
Carry on trolling.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:10 PMPeace
f it wasn’t for the UDA, who incidentally had to patrol their streets with waterpistols painted black when the IRA first attacked them with Haughey’s guns, the protestant community in the North would have been anihilated, along with most of the worthwhile buildings up there
Catch yourself on already the IRA was going to kill every single prod?
dont make me laugh
peace
Come down off your high horse all you ultra-Irish Nationalists, when it comes down to it, if someone was shooting your family, friends and burning your home like the IRA did just because you were born, would you not stand and fight? Where is your sense of humanity now..?The IRA was reformed precisely because the catholics were being murdered and the RUC was doing nothing but standing around with their thumbs in their bums or sometimes doing the murdering
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:20 PMTo go back to the article, Frankie wants to put another coat of lipstick on the UDA pig, hoping that with cosmetics, folks will forget it’s a pig.
What was the red-hot proposal last night? New flags?
The flags of a paramilitary group of thugs will always be, definitionally, a paramilitary flag, traditional symbols or no. This is, at best, re-arranging the Titantic’s deck furniture and, as I stated before, sounds like a flim-flam, complete with blue-smoke and mirrors. This conference and this project hjas nothing to do with community betterment and everything to do with putting lipstick on a pig.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:31 PMI suggest that the UDA should rename itself British State Counter Gang Number One
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:31 PMI would also suggest that they forget branding and stick to tattoos.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:34 PMWell actually I am a protestant but I shared a house with Roman Catholics for two years in North Belfast and believe me the IRA men who came to the door intimidated everyone in that house, whatever their political beliefs.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 01:51 PM“...British State Counter Gang Number One.”
Well evidently nothing is going to stop you all from believing the IRA propaganda machine and media. If you bothered to do adequate research on the topic of the British State’s roll in the ‘Troubles’ you’d know that the reason the UDA was formed was because the security forces in Northern Ireland couldn’t give a toss about them who were being murdered and maimed on a daily basis, and were ordered to ‘contain the IRA’ rather than defeat it ‘pending political decision’ i.e. pulling out and giving you a United Ireland. In actual fact, every time a UDA man left his house in the 70s and 80s with a gun her was arrested and the security forces had more or less made the UDA inactive by the end of the 70s and 80s - so think about that before you all start trolling around about collusion. Maybe you should spend a bit more time thanking the RUC for protecting you against violence rather than scapgoating and condemning them.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 02:00 PMWhy all the naysaying and negativity?
Is this not a positive thing?
The UDA did some truly awful things in the last 30 years - countless murders, maiming and extortion. But so did the IRA? Have we not got to the point of forgetting about(at least overlooking) IRA actions. We do not keep harping on about it.
Either we move on from all past misdeeds or we do not. All grief is equal.
It is only £1.2m. Peanuts, considering the potential pay off in regeneration and growth. If they were intending to spend the money on drink, drugs and fags for the boys then I could understand the carping.
But they are actually trying to give an account of what they want to spend the money on. They are being open about it - a very positive thing.
Why the double standard from both moderate Unionists and Nationalists? Pete Baker, I do not see the same sniping and condescension directed at SF as you direct at loyalists.
If the Irish President and hubby can engage and keep an open mind, why can Nationalists not? El Mat, are you unwilling to engage directly with the UDA/UVF?
I believe a lot of the carping is to do with class. The UDA come out of (a product of) working-class loyalist areas. Areas notorious for inarticulation and brute violence. Areas neglected by swanky Unionist politicians, who only sweep in looking for votes or in the past looking for henchmen. It is easier to turn your nose up at the great unwashed, than a former terrorist in an Armani suit. Old-fashioned snobbery.
The UPRG are at the very least looking to articulate their position. For consistency sake, the very least we can do is hear them out.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 02:07 PMthe only thing any of our paramilitary groups need to do is disband and individually seek a place for themselves in normal society, ie get a job. their reason to exist was to participate in the troubles. they fought/defended for whatever reasons which we’ll not try to justify or condemn at the minute. but theres something that doesnt seem to have sunk in yet. the troubles are now OVER!! there is no reason for them to exist. its as simple as that. the ideas that you hear about old comrades associations or moving into community work are jaw droppingly laughable. who in their right mind would think a multiple murderer/bomber whos done 10 - 20 and is covered in tats, would be a good person to look after a group of 20 under 10s on a day out at marble arch caves?? wise yerself!!
there are trained ‘nice’ people to do any of the community jobs that are talked about.i think the paramilitary guys are having a hard time accepting that their time is at an end.
do we see disbanded army regiments retraining and moving into community work? do we see the Royal Irish Community Workers Army Association ??? ludicrous.. they just go off and get another job.just take a pay off and go and get a normal job!
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 02:11 PM“..most of them would be classified as serial killers..”
I think that if we are honest with ourselves the UDA and the IRA all committed heinous atrocities in equal measure - in fact the IRA murdered more people, including catholics, but anyway, if that’s the case Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Gerry Kelly and Mitchel McLaughlin etc. etc. for whom catholics in the North are almost all voting for, could all be branded serial killers because they were all involved in murdering people.
The message I am trying to get across is, people don’t chose where they are born into. All men are born equal but circumstance, specifically war, can push them into fight or flight situations whether they are from the Falls Road or the Shankill. Judge catholic paramilitaries as you would judge protestant ones, realise it was a dirty, horrible war and that all sides committed atrocities, give everyone a chance to move on from it and give everyone a chance.
Have a peaceful Easter.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2007 @ 02:13 PM
