Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Rangers could be in serious trouble over one hand salutes in Israel
Rangers could be in a lot of trouble with UEFA over one hand salutes made by a section of their fans during last week’s UEFA Cup tie against Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel.
Rangers chief executive Martin Bain has urged fans not to make any such gestures when the two sides meet Thursday in the return leg at Ibrox.
“The photographs in question show a small number of Rangers fans in Tel-Aviv making one-arm salute gestures. Some Rangers fans continue to give ‘Red Hand’ salutes which the club and the vast majority of supporters discourage because they will be misinterpreted.
We have regularly consulted with our supporters groups and they have said they are doing everything they can to prevent this.
We have repeatedly made clear that fans should not make any gestures that can be misinterpreted and we are urging all fans attending the game tomorrow night to remember the potential consequences.”
It now remains to be seen if UEFA accept Bain’s explanation and Rangers escape severe sanctions because the gestures were Red Hand salutes that may have been misinterpreted as Nazi ones.
One particular problem in the Bain analysis is the actual meaning of the Red Hand salute and its origins. The best description I have been able to find is here.
It’s first appearance at Ibrox seems to have been in the 1980’s, coinciding with the introduction of the extreme right wing “Chelsea bootboys’” unofficial friendship with Rangers.
Terry Last, a soccer hooligan and a leading figure of both the head-hunters and the National Front, also played a role in the rise of this disgusting symbol and dragged England’s national support to an all time low when he was pictured displaying the salute whilst “on tour” with England not long before his arrest and imprisonment in connection with his hooligan activities. Following his trial Last was labelled “Little Hitler of the Soccer Thugs” by the English media…..
A good piece of advice is also offered:
If you see anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, contributing to the use of Nazi salutes within Ibrox, or any other ground where Rangers fans’ are in attendance, do the right thing and politely question why, within Britain’s’ shores’ are they saluting and displaying support for one of the most evil dictatorships in world history, that had they achieved there goal, would have destroyed Great Britain, a union which is sacred to many within our own support.
Most probably, their reply will be, its not a Nazi salute, it’s a Red Hand. It’s time to educate the uneducated, make it clear to the idiots that this mythical Red Hand Salute does not exist and it has no place amoungst a Rangers support that we are extremely proud of.
UEFA fined Rangers last season over discriminatory songs during Champions League ties against Villarreal.
Every club has its idiots (Celtic trying to stop some if its fans chanting IRA slogans) but it could very well be that the particular circumstances of these idiots’ behaviour could have more serious repercussions than usual.
Eds: Thanks for the update Update. UEFA have accepted Rangers’ version of the story that such salutes related to the red hand on the Ulster flag.
But club chief executive Martin Bain said: “We have repeatedly made clear that fans should not make them.”
George @ 02:26 PM
Somewhat surprising..I remember seeing a documentary on the NI conflict a couple of years ago on the BBC where a lot of loyalists including lads whose bedrooms were festooned in UJs and various Glasgow Rangers paraphernalia identified closely with the Israelis in their conflict.
Mind you this was mentioned by the film-maker (whose name I can’t quite remember), and he more or less said it needed to be seen in the context of them being aware that he himself was Jewish…
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:41 PMThese arseholes only shame themselves. To perform a nazi salute in israel would be like a bunch of jews shouting ‘boom’ in Omagh…and that’s not even a fair comparison.
Oh and they’re a shit football team too
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:46 PMI often wonder if many of those claiming to give a “Red Hand” salute have any idea of the origins of the “Red Hand”.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:51 PMA good piece of advice is also offered:
If you see anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, contributing to the use of Nazi salutes within Ibrox, or any other ground where Rangers fans’ are in attendance, do the right thing and politely question why, within Britain’s’ shores’ are they saluting and displaying support for one of the most evil dictatorships in world history.
Or are they showing support for the Nazi regime that slaughtered millions.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:53 PMA Ranger’s fan banned for an “indefinite period” by the club because of his behaviour at the Hearts v Rangers match on the 27th January was able to buy a ticket and attend Sunday’s Rangers v Falkirk match at Ibrox
According to a report in today’s Scottish Sun (which is accompanied by photos of the fan concerned with his Rangers v Falkirk tickets outside Ibrox and in his seat in the stadium), 54 year old Andrew Vannart of Barrhead, Glasgow, was able to defy Rangers’ “indefinite period” ban on him.
Vannart, who is due to stand trial in May because of the behaviour at Tynecastle on the 27th January, purchased his ticket for the Rangers v Falkirk match at the Rangers ticket office and attended Sunday’s game, sitting only yards from his usual seat in the Govan Stand.
At the Hearts v Rangers match at Tynecastle on the 17th January, missiles were thrown from the Rangers support and vile, bigoted and sectarian singing by the Rangers fans was plentiful
A Rangers spokesperson commented on Mr Vannart’s ability to ignore the club’s ban on him: “Our sanctions work. Any fans who defy sanctions run a real risk of further consequences and we have a range of deterrents in place including random identity checks for people buying tickets on match days.”
The spokesperson added:” The club has handed out 21 lifetime bans for this in the past.”
Clearly Rangers take very seriously the clubs massive problem with obscene, sickening, bigoted and sectarian behaviour by Rangers fans.
Almost as seriously in fact as Rangers did when sectarian singing was heard at the Inter Milan v Rangers match in the autumn of 2005 when ONLY Rangers employees and their invited guests were present in the San Siro that night because it was a closed doors fixture.
In the immediate aftermath of the particular sectarian shame for Rangers FC, chairman David Murray promised a “full and thorough investigation”.
The “full and thorough investigation” has not yet been completed.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:53 PMRealist on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:51 PM wrote “I often wonder if many of those claiming to give a “Red Hand” salute have any idea of the origins of the “Red Hand”. “
I’ve never heard of a Red Hand Salute… I’ve always considered it an excuse for Unionist / British Combat18 types to copy the other right wing looneys symbols / displays.
Origins of the Red Hand are from an Irish tale / folklore of two giants racing accross Lough Neagh and the prize goes to who touchs land first. One cuts off his hand and throws it’s ashore therefore defeating the other giant. Blood spilt for land… how ironic.
It’s in the four provinces flag for Ulster (red cross, with hand in center, on yellow background) and represents the Tyrone GAA.
In the negative: it was used by the Loyalist gangs.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:05 PMCue Whataboutery…
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:06 PMTo be fair to Rangers and their supporters,
Glasgow Rangers FC does exactly what they say on the tin.They are a racist sectarian b-g—-d backward looking bunch of gangsters.
If you accept this then it is only to be expected to see this kind of behaviour, the norm.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:06 PMevery club has its idiots
at least its out in the open
unlike scotlands secret shamePosted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:17 PMMisinterpret my eye. They knew what they were doing.
Generally loyalists identify with Israel in their occupation of Palestine, but that’s not to say they particularly like Jews - they just think Palestinians are a bunch of insurgents like Taigs and should be put in their place. Might is right seems to be their only real credo.
Like any bunch of football thugs, when abroad they will offend whoever is there to be offended.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:21 PManonymous,
Is the Red Hand not the official seal of the O’Neill family clan?
I’m wondering if these Rangers fans have any knowledge about the exploits of the O’Neill clan in those “bygone days of yore”.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:26 PMMmmmmm, seems strange that one of the Rangers fans giving this alleged nazi salute is also holding an Israeli flag. Funnily enough the Israeli flag is a very common site both at Ibrox and in unionist areas around this part of the U.K. Probably due to nationalisms association with their fellow mudurers and terrorists in the plo,etc, many unionists formed alliances with pro-Israeli groups and associations. Unionist support for the Israeli position is known and well thought about in Israel.
Shalom!Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:28 PMCue (unsung) fourth verse of well known Ranger’s anthem:
‘We are, we are, we are the Hitler Youth…’
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:34 PMProbably due to nationalisms association with their fellow mudurers and terrorists in the plo,etc, many unionists formed alliances with pro-Israeli groups and associations.
I.e. Themmuns are supporting Palestine so we’ll back the Israelis. Nice independent thinking there. I remember a few years ago in Glengormley, approaching the glorious twelfth, there was a French flag, and an Israeli flag side by side. Very cosmo.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:35 PMRealist on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:26 PM wrote “Is the Red Hand not the official seal of the O’Neill family clan?
I’m wondering if these Rangers fans have any knowledge about the exploits of the O’Neill clan in those “bygone days of yore”. “
Morons being morons I can’t imagine that their knowledge or grasp of history and/or symbolism need to be discussed any further.
I think that they last time Rangers were investigated by UEFA the conclusion was that if the Scottish govt can’t deal with the secret shame then why should a sporting body. Now things might go further… UEFA might decide that they gave Rangers enough notice and will now crush them with fines / penalties. They will also send a signal to the Scot Exec and all other European govts and teams not to mess with UEFA and their rule about racism.Insider, I believe that Niall’s comments pre empted your excuses for the idiots behaviour… “ …Might is right seems to be their only real credo.
Like any bunch of football thugs, when abroad they will offend whoever is there to be offended. “Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:44 PMGeorge,
move along now, nothing to see here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/6383691.stm
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:44 PMAnother neo-con victory.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:52 PMBlame the masons!
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 04:54 PMnmc, I see it more of a case of “My enemies enemy is my friend”.
Good to see a sensible decision by UEFA on this matter.Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:01 PMcomplete and total crap by UEFA. There is no such thing as a red hand salute… it’s nazi and it was done in Israel to taunt the oppositions fans.
Pathetic climb down by UEFA and pathetic of anyone on this site who excuses a made up red hand salute !!
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:08 PMtis normal Rangers behaviour:
http://i9.tinypic.com/34sksjq.jpg
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:11 PMRangers were fined £4,000 in December after a pro-Palestinian protestor invaded the pitch during a match in the previous round against another Israeli club, Maccabi Haifa.
Now this from the BBC article is interesting in a kind of linked way.
The “pro-Palestinian” protestor was, in fact, a certain Mr Sean Gallagher of Glasgow, who ran onto the pitch with a Palestinian flag draped round his shoulders. He also, for reasons we can only guess at, revealed on the pitch his T shirt which had a rather fetching picture of the present Pontiff on the front. You’ll probably not be surprised to learn that he is not a prominent figure within Scottish Pro-Palestinian circles.
I’ll just point out before the Whatabouts and Bigots wing in, I’m not an apologist for the Gers, I detest everything the Old Firm stands for.Both clubs should be abolished, a new Glasgow Utd team set up which plays in pink and bans all *national symbols* whenever they play. All *Ulster* and *Irish* fans would be politely asked to stay and support their home-town clubs in their own countries.
There you go, how to solve sectarianism in Scottish sport in one easy move.Also, George, I think the plight of many of the Utd fans caught in the potentially life-threatening crush in Lille last night is more deserving of a post than this non-story.
http://manchesterunited.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=891&p=2&stid=8439367Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:23 PMPerhaps Im missing something, but the pictures seem to indicate a different salute than the Nazi salute. The arms seem to be going straight up, instead of outward like the Nazis. I dont know, but it doesnt seem to be a Nazi salute, of course Im a Boca Juniors supporter ( the greatest club ever), and Im not too familiar with this Rangers team other than they are not very good futbolers. We we have our share of obnoxious fans here in Buenos Aires, though I have not seen many Nazi types. Where I did see a lot of those was in Rome (Lazio) and in Belgrade.
I cheer for Celtic when I have a chance.
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 05:43 PM“…I’ll just point out before the Whatabouts and Bigots wing in, I detest everything the Old Firm stands for.
Both clubs should be abolished, …”
Not a chance of me not replying to that posting.1. under McCann Celtic introduced the Bhoys against Bigotry as a means of eliminating any sectarian element in it’s supporters. This was years before any likewise initiate from cross town (there haven’t been any) or before Nil By Mouth. Celtic were one of the first to join the “Let’s Kick Racism out of Football” campaign.
2. Celtic’s charter is to be a club open to all. It wasn’t until the 1980s that Rangers took a Catholic player. Celtic motto / saying “It is not his creed nor his nationality which counts – it’s the man himself”.
3. D Findlay of the Rangers management was caught on video singing a sectarian song … the one that goes “We’re up to our necks in Fenian blood, surrender or you’ll die” and is bellowed out at every Rangers home match
4. Rangers fans (voted the world’s most stupid by France Football) after being warned by the weak UEFA to behave, attacked the Villareal bus and engaged in sectarian singing / behaviour. The club was fined.
5. Last weekend (as posted above) a ‘banned’ supporter gets tickets for a home game and is stupid enough to highlight this with photos in the Sun.
6. Celtic as a club has been pro-active in distancing itself from sectarianism whereas Rangers, to their shame have made no such effort. There should be no such thing as “The Old Firm” as it links two teams to each other – Celtic have taken the high road and done the honourable thing, Rangers are pure sectarian trash. It’s not a case of 50/50, one sides as bad as the other – Celtic are awarded a prize from UEFA in recognition of their supporters good behaviour and the atmosphere in Seville, Rangers are investigated and fined by UEFA for sectarianism and hooliganism.
7. As for Scotland as a whole… Celtic goalie Boruc was charged by the police for blessing himself! An accepted gesture performed by many players (almost half I see on telly) who play top class football.Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 06:11 PManon.
What is your personal opinion about what went on at the Donegal Supporters Club bash last year (not the players alleged behaviour, the supporters)?
Posted by on Feb 21, 2007 @ 06:23 PM
