Tuesday, October 02, 2007
Public spaces and the past
The conflict and commemoration of events and individuals has come into focus with two disputes of very different origins. A memorial in Enniskillen Fire Station to the dead of the Poppy Day Massacre has been removed following a complaint by a staff member. Unionist representatives have raised their objections. This is the second time this issue has been occurred in Enniskillen. Meanwhile, in Craigavon a family request for a memorial seat beside the grave of leading loyalist Mark Fulton has been approved. The SDLP are to lodge a complaint with the Equality Commission.
Fair Deal @ 10:34 AM
What’s a memorial seat when it’s at home? Is it like Arthur Fowler’s bench in Albert Square? Do the family not own the plot of land where Fulton is buried anyway?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 11:01 AMWho, in their right mind could object to a montage commerating those innocents who died at the war memorial, I thought I was a hardened veteran of the conflict but in no way can I agree with this, we all need to be allowed to mourn our dead in peaceful and appropriate fashion and leave the stupid sectarian ideas of yesteryear just there or we risk infecting the next generations with our past hate to repeat the deaths in coming generations.
This is one subject I cannot wind anyone up over.Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 12:15 PMi read about the fire station thing. totally disgusting. the complainer was obviously a hate filled ira supporting republican. he just wanted to use the law to attack anything remotely british, even a picture with poppies in it. pathetic. descent people should not listen to these people and should tell them where to go… imagine a 9/11 memorial being taken down in a NY firestation because some sicko objected to a picture with an american flag or something like that. its ridiculous to even listen to these compaints.
the memorial seat is another sick decision. NIs terrorists should not be honoured in any way.
i wish people would use a bit of common sense in making decisions. equality laws are just used by people as a means to attack what they dont like. and then theres the human rights stuff. its all ‘ you’re denying my human rights if you dont give me what i want..’
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 12:27 PMthe eniskillen thing is ridiculous. How could anyone (even a republican) object to it? And, arguably more importantly why was his/her objections upheld?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 12:33 PM“the eniskillen thing is ridiculous. How could anyone (even a republican) object to it? And, arguably more importantly why was his/her objections upheld?”
Right lads - everyone calm down and put your brains in gear (yes, even the ‘descent’ people eranu). Let’s suppose that someone had put a memorial poster to the dead of Bloody Sunday up in a communal, mixed-community workplace - still think you’d be outraged if co-workers suggested it’s removal? Didn’t think so.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:07 PMThe point is that Fire Stations should provide a neutral working environment. Naturally, Unionists are apoplectic about the decision to remove this montage but would be reticent if the montage was of Bloody Sunday, in fact they would campaign for it’s removal.
The fact that we are moving away from conflict and haven’t really developed a mature appreciation of all victims necessitates the neutralising of such places of work.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:09 PM“The point is that Fire Stations should provide a neutral working environment. Naturally, Unionists are apoplectic about the decision to remove this montage but would be reticent if the montage was of Bloody Sunday, in fact they would campaign for it’s removal.
The fact that we are moving away from conflict and haven’t really developed a mature appreciation of all victims necessitates the neutralising of such places of work.
Posted by Paul on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:09 PM”
Quite so Paul, though you may as well talk to the wall as try to explain that to this lot of sectarian knee-jerkers.........
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:13 PMBemused
“Right lads - everyone calm down and put your brains in gear (yes, even the ‘descent’ people eranu). Let’s suppose that someone had put a memorial poster to the dead of Bloody Sunday up in a communal, mixed-community workplace - still think you’d be outraged if co-workers suggested it’s removal?”
Sorry but the analogy falls at the first fence. Please see the Bloody Sunday memorial window in the Guildhall, a public building maintained and staff by an organisation with a mixed workforce.
http://www.jcu.edu/belfastinstitute/bloody_sunday_window.htm
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:24 PMIf the Poppy Day service had descended into a riot from which loyalist snipers were shooting .....
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:29 PMAs usual, political correctness gone mad!
This country is being ruined by the “I have the right not to be offended brigade”. Whether it’s on the streets, in the work place or anywhere else, the giving in to this nonsense devalues society and stifles tolerance.
No matter where you go in the world, and I have travelled a fair bit, whether its’ royalty, football teams, local heroes or what every, they all have a place on the factory floor, in the office where ever. Other societies and culture have been able to work out a tolerance policy, why can’t we?
Its’ incredible the only place you can’t were an Ireland rugby jersey to work is Northern Ireland - not that you would want to at the minute. We have created a sterile environment in which we believe people should live, free from challenges, free from reality, free from diversity and most important free from tolerance.
The removal of the memorial is totally alien to the principles of a “share future”. If we really want a “shared future” then the picture should be replaced
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:39 PMNo doubt this person must be very pleased with themselves. Some petty little nark with nothing better to do than run gurning - It’s dciscrimination, so it is!”. What next - the La Mon window in Castlereagh or maybe the Cenotaph outside City Hall?
These saddos really anger me, they need to get a life and practice what they preach about respect and tolerance.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:41 PMThis decision is a disgrace. Sinn Fein IRA murdered innocent people in Enniskillen. The world was outraged. Yet some Republican objects to the memory of those victims. Why must Unionists be subjected to a Sinn Fein IRA terrorist shrine at the Maze, yet ordinary decent people are not allowed to hang a photo on a wall in Enniskillen. It’s the usual hierarchy of victims. In SF IRA’s world we must ‘celebrate’ and remember the terrorist murderers while their victims must keep quiet and suffer in silence. The DUP says it stands up for the real victims - this is a good test to see what action they will take on this one.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 01:48 PMPaul/Bemused
fact that we are moving away from conflict and haven’t really developed a mature appreciation of all victims necessitates the neutralising of such places of work
e so Paul, though you may as well talk to the wall as try to explain that to this lot of sectarian knee-jerkers.........
If the montage had (justifiably in my opinion) carried the words,"Innocents Murdered by IRA scum”, then, fair enough, I can see how being reminded of that inconvenient fact may upset
Republicans in the workforce and probably create an “uncomfortable” work environment.But it doesn’t; the legend on top of the “montage” reads simply:
“The innocents who lost their lives”, no mention of the organisation which carried out the massacre.
How could anyone, in all conscience, (even Republicans) object to such wording?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:01 PMSo would it be fair to place a memorial beside it commemorating the hunger strikers?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:06 PMNo - Sinn Fein is currently campaigning against suicide.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:21 PM‘So would it be fair to place a memorial beside it commemorating the hunger strikers?
Posted by Sean on Oct 02, 2007 @ 03:06 PM
No - Sinn Fein is currently campaigning against suicide.Posted by Quaysider on Oct 02, 2007 @ 03:21 PM’
Once again a thread is decending into the usual whataboutary, as someone who survived three seperate UVF attacks I reiterate what I said above
‘we all need to be allowed to mourn our dead in peaceful and appropriate fashion and leave the stupid sectarian ideas of yesteryear just there or we risk infecting the next generations with our past hate to repeat the deaths in coming generations.’; I am no less committed to the reunification of our country but if we fail to unite our people the conflict will come back to threaten my children and potential grandchildren, have you all learned nothing from the 3000+ deaths of young men and women, many of whom were my friends and relatives.Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:32 PMIt’s shocking that in the places where it is needed most, those that are public and state run, there has been no attempt to impose any sort of blanket ban on such sponsored displays of ethnic/religious/community affiliation
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:38 PMWho put the memorial up in the first place on on whose authority?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 02:44 PMIt’s shocking that in the places where it is needed most, those that are public and state run, there has been no attempt to impose any sort of blanket ban on such sponsored displays of ethnic/religious/community affiliation
Abdul-Rahim
The Enniskillen massacre caused great hurt throughout the community, irrespective of peoples’ “ethnic/religious/community affiliation”.Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 03:02 PM“So would it be fair to place a memorial beside it commemorating the hunger strikers?”
No it would not. The people in one picture were innocent people the people in another would not be.
Dec
Why does it matter?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 03:34 PM“So would it be fair to place a memorial beside it commemorating the hunger strikers?”
Even leaving aside any position on the hunger strikers that would be irrelevant. The hunger strikers died in the Maze whereas the people killed in Enniskillen self evidently died in Enniskillen.
Also of course the Enniskillen fire brigade helped the people caught up in the aftermath of the bombing. Again self evidently the Enniskillen fire brigade had nothing to do with the deaths of the hunger strikers.
As fair_deal has pointed out there is a memorial to those killed on Bloody Sunday in the Guilhall so there seem to be potential double standards here.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 04:23 PMbut but but but ............. why was it put up? I hate to think that some pervert would have put it up to annoy somebody else .. would anybody use such an incident to do that?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 05:34 PMPancho’s Horse
It was put up by the firemen in enniskillen - 19 years ago - I doubt it was done to annoy anyone but if it was it took a hell of a long time to work! More to the point, why has someone been happy with it for so long and then objected the day before press and vip’s visit the station for a refurbishment ceremonyPosted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 08:10 PMMaybe WHEN they put it back up it would be a good opportunity to add a picture of Ronnie Hill the 12th Victim of the atrocity who lost his life in 2000 after 13 years in a coma as a result of the bomb.
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 08:23 PMYou are an obviously well informed LazyGeek but still no reason as to why it was put up.People always do things like this for a reason. You have heard of people who tolerate their wife/father/boss for ages and finally snap. Maybe this kid snapped. Workplaces are supposed to be neutral and symbol free. Why should anyone feel even slightly uncomfortable at work?
Posted by on Oct 02, 2007 @ 08:27 PM
