Wednesday, August 01, 2007
Protestant GAA player gives up sport after sectarian abuse…
Gaelic Football has a grace and skill about it that is hard to resist at close quarters. It’s not surprising that despite the cultural chill around some of the flags and symbols, it is played with enthusiasm and passion by some (albeit very few) Protestants. Darren Graham is probably more senior than most of those who have taken up the sport, but he has finally given up playing after taking regular sectarian abuse.
Deirdre Donnelly, the Press Officer for the Fermanagh County Board GAA, told the ‘Herald’ it was the first time she had heard of that form of abuse: “And, I know from talking to other officials, they have never been aware of it. But, certainly, if individuals feel there is an issue, they should bring it to their club and the club should take it to County Board.”
Darren Graham is adamant: ‘unless there is something really done about it and the County Board realise that this is all happening, I am definite, I am not putting on the shirt again’.
For the record, Rule 7(b) of the GAA constitution states clearly: ‘the Association shall be non-sectarian’.
And, in Febraury this year, the GAA President, Nicky Brennan, in the course of an interview for the Church of Ireland Gazette, insisted there was nothing wrong with the GAA that would stop Protestant people joining. Indeed, he suggested the only intimidation might come from their own community.
It begs the question that if the GAA doesn’t actually know this stuff is going on: is this just the tip of a very large iceberg?
Mick Fealty @ 11:25 AM
Fair point Frank. It is very much a NI condition. For a start, the political side of the GAA has little social resonance in the Republic, regardless of one’s colour or creed. In NI, even if you don’t go along with Michael’s assertion that it actually bans unionists, it is nevertheless clearly definitive.
I can roll off the names of a fair few Protestants who have dabbled in the sport, and others who love watching it, but would never dream of playing it, largely because of this political/cultural ‘chill’ surrounding the sport. None that I know of got as far as Darren with the sport. I suspect that isolation (outside the club) did for them long before getting a sniff of a senior club game.
As GAA becomes a regular fixture for all sports lovers on TV, and visible to the wider NI population in ways that it simply wasn’t twenty years ago, this problem is likely to get worse.
To be fair, the County PR who was on Talkback today reported that they had received no complaint, and therefore were not in a position to do anything about it. But given the guy’s previous commitment to the sport, perhaps the County Board should take the complaint at face value?
Though I suspect they might be better to look at some of the more general cultural/political questions being raised than trying to micro police individual incidents, in what is, after all, a fairly rough and tumble contact sport.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:36 PMDewi - That’s more than likely a myth.
Hamely Tonguer - Aye sure qhuy wudnae we dae her agin? Ach dae ye ken wif there ainy bodies qho be at tha fitbal an can spake Hamely?
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:39 PMAs a life-long supporter of hurling and gaelic football, I hope that a formal investigation finds the culprits here, issues appropriate suspensions, expulsions of the players involved and subsequent fines/demotion of the associated clubs. This sort of behaviour cannot be tolerated and is not tolerated in the majority of GAA clubs.
I also find it very unfair of Michael to imply that the GAA is rife with this behaviour. This is purely a NI GAA phenomena.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:40 PM“And the name policy isn’t enforced that much.”
Whether it is enforced or not is not the point -
it’s discriminatory and should go. After all it would be regarded as outrageous if someone with a Gaelic name was prevented from using it by the soccer or cricket authorities.If as you say it isn’t enforced then the rule should surely be dropped ?
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:44 PMGood post Mick. The GAA missed an opportunity to sort some of these things out when it updated it’s constitution.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:47 PM“If as you say it isn’t enforced then the rule should surely be dropped ? “
It probably will be changed in time but nobody is highlighting it so as it is already not being adhered to.
Every so often they similar to governments look over old Laws/rules etc. that were created 100 years ago and repeal/update them. This will be changed but it just needs someone to highlight it. At the moment players choose what version of their name is used and rightly so, it may be against an archaic rule that will be changed at some stage but if that is the best arguement you can come up with against playing a sport then I certainly wouldn’t want you to be a supporter of that sport or any other sport I am also a supporter of for that matterPosted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:55 PMCruimh
It is not discriminatory. As I have said, names not of Gaelic origin are kept in their original form. One that springs to mind to past President Jack Boothman.
Names are only written in Irish in official documents if they come from Irish. No big deal.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 01:55 PMCruimh: “it’s discriminatory and should go.”
That sentence and sentiment could be applied to a great many things in Northern Ireland. Institutions that celebrate the Union and the Protestant faith, for example, have equally discriminatory orientations, associations and regulations. Are you equally strident about those? Or are you one of those who doesn’t believe gravy for a goose is gravy for a gander?
Cruimh: “If as you say it isn’t enforced then the rule should surely be dropped ? “
Contrariwise, if it is most notable in its non-enforcement, why should it be an issue?
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:09 PMRG - the practise might not be discriminatory but the rules ARE.
“Names are only written in Irish in official documents if they come from Irish. No big deal.”
Team lists MUST be proffered in Irish.
“Official documents and correspondence shall have the following in Irish.”
and
“Correspondence and documents not complying shall be ruled out of order.”
Shall be - not may be. That is mandatory.
Page 6 official guide and rules 2007
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:12 PMDread - the GAA and it’s supporters tend to be holier than thou - “your side of the fence is sectarian and discriminatory, ours is not” is their attitude. I’d like to see them practise what they preach.
If they are serious about wanting the GAA to be inclusive, then they should address concerns raised. If not then they should be honest and drop the pretense.
As for the “what about your community” in your post - does the sectarianism and discrimination in my community justify it in the GAA?
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:18 PMsam maguire is not written in irish is it???
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:21 PMIncidentally RG - what is CLG ?
( “As a life-long CLG/GAA supporter” )
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:23 PM“Team lists MUST be proffered in Irish.”
Course, the Irish for a non Irish name is, er, just the name.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:24 PMCiaran - so it’s OK to have discriminatory rules as long as they are ignored ?
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:24 PMHaving only ever attended a GAA and NI league game once it was made clear to be which one is sectarian. Going through the turnstiles at the Oval to watch Glenavon take on Linfield the majority of the crowd where singing songs about hanging fenians etc (I doubt there many Catholics at the match so I found this quite bizarre)anyhow the match ended in a riot.
On the contrary while at the county GAA game i heard no sectarianism at all, I don’t participate in either sport but I know which one I’ll not be attending again.Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:26 PMAnyone involved in sectarian abuse should be expelled immediately from the GAA. They should not be tolerated.
Yes the GAA has some baggage from its early days, but these can be changed and im sure will change overtime as normality returns.
About 20,000 kids in the English westmidlands apparently partake in GAA sports as part of a government initiative to promote healthiness. Do you reckon the GAA is making sure that those kids are all catholics and supporters of a UI ? Not quite the same context as the island or Ireland, ill grant you that, but the positives of GAA are there to see.
On the whole Cruimh, do you believe the GAA to be an organisation with good intent or bad intent.
On the whole do you believe it to be an organisation that does harm or promotes good ideals in the communities it operates.
On the whole does it promote positive ideals for young people.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:26 PMCruimh,
Grow a pair and ask the GAA directly these questions. Settle your arguement once and for all.
Is the rule madatory? Is it adhered too? Have teams been punished for not adhering to it?Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:27 PMHill - the rules are there and have been included in this year’s update.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:32 PMCruimh: “the GAA and it’s supporters tend to be holier than thou “
Not material to the question I asked, Cruimh.
Cruimh: “If they are serious about wanting the GAA to be inclusive, then they should address concerns raised. If not then they should be honest and drop the pretense. “
Comme ci, comme ca. To fill their position, all they really have to do is investigate and, if and when the guilty parties are identified, fall on them like a ton of bricks. That there is internal correspondence and game programs in Gaelic is of no real importance, save for someone looking to be offended.
Likewise, if the rule is most notable in its non-enforcement, it hardly impedes those not familiar with the language.
Cruimh: “As for the “what about your community” in your post - does the sectarianism and discrimination in my community justify it in the GAA?”
Not to get all religious, despite this being a sectarian divide, but I believe that even the King James Bible has the admonition about removing the plank from one’s own eye before worrying about the motes in one’s neighbors.
That you are so voiciferously against discrimination is laudable. That you are so one-eyed in your prioritizing of which discrimination needs to be addressed—the discrimination in your own community would appear to run a distant second to that in the community in which you are directly involved—is much less so. One cannot hold the moral high ground well or long with feet of clay.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:32 PMCruimh
I repeat, names not of Irish origin are kept in their original form.
The CLG/GAA has a policy of bilingualism and aims to promote the use of Irish. It’s not discriminatory, it adds to the experience. Most Gaelic players do not speak Irish but this does not hamper their involvement.
CLG stands for Cumann LĂşthchleas Gael, Gaelic Athletic Assocciation in Irish Gaelic.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:34 PMDread Cthulhu: “the discrimination in your own community would appear to run a distant second to that in the community in which you are directly involved—is much less so.”
That should read *LESS* directly involved…
*sigh*
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:35 PM“Course, the Irish for a non Irish name is, er, just the name.”
Tell that to Barbara Brown, Martin Miller, Donald Nelis etc.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:36 PMkloot - in practise in the ROI I’m sure it’s a force for good. In the North it is divisive and leans to partisan politics, so overall it is a bad thing. I cannot accept that it’s out-dated faith and fatherland sexist approach is healthy or helpful and I resent it’s flouting of European law.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:36 PM“Not material to the question I asked, Cruimh.”
The question you asked was not material to the thread - which is about the GAA Dread.
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:38 PMThanks RG :)
Posted by on Aug 01, 2007 @ 02:39 PM
