Friday, February 15, 2008
“Poor Edwin”
So says Jim Allister on last night’s H&M.
Many will say that one cannot draw too many conclusions from a local government by-election. And they’re right. I worked a bit on the Larne Lough DEA by-election in 2004, occasional Slugger commenter Andy Wilson won the election, yet Roy Beggs still lost the following Westminster election heavily. Yet there are significant differences here (one being that Andy had the good forethought to become a father during the campaign). The preceding council election in Larne Lough had the UUP well ahead of the DUP, the following council election UUP and DUP were roughly equal. In Dromore we overturned a significant DUP lead from 2005 to be neck and neck in 2008. DUP strategists were telling UUP canvassers they would be amazed if we failed to win in Larne. In Dromore, the media wrote us off as an afterthought, and to an extent, they have been embarrassed every bit as acutely as the DUP.
I wont go into any where as much detail as fair deal and Turgon have, I think that in particular Turgon’s analysis covers the bases that I would have, had I been quicker off the mark. My only further thought is that we could meander into a position where those who believe that power sharing is in the medium term best interests of Northern Ireland vote UUP, those who don’t vote TUV, and the question of “what are they for again?” turns from my party, to the DUP. And wow but don’t they deserve it.
The next major election is Europe 2009. The DUP’s fox of standing two candidates has probably been shot by a small by-election in Co Down, and the broader Euro election looks now like it could be a three way fight for two Unionist seats. People will cry Unionism will lose a seat as a result, I don’t believe that it will. I reckon the next Euro election will be a much more exciting affair following yesterday, and all because the DUP aren’t today the invincible electoral machine they were thought to be at the start of the week.
Michael Shilliday @ 02:44 PM
RG Cuan
“What struck me about the interview is how a Government Minister, who is supposedly neutral, can openly admit on tv that he is against the promotion of NI’s native language.”
Catch yourself on. Poots may be a tube but he is an elected one with a mandate to oppose an ILA. See what happens when you demand your precious institutions back.
BTW why should any unionist promote a key element of narrow Irish nationalism?
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 06:38 PMA bit off-topic, but:
“In Dromore, the media wrote us off as an afterthought, and to an extent, they have been embarrassed every bit as acutely as the DUP.”
I think there’s a point to be made here; something to examine in terms of equal (or something that is kinda near-ish approximating) coverage which reflects the fact that this is not a two party system.
Also, does anyone else think that Edwin needs a little media coaching...?
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 07:11 PM‘key element of narrow Irish nationalism’
you seem hilariously ignorant of the fact that it is a key element of the Island in which you live. Ireland. The irish language is seen by many unionists as a battle still to be won or lost. The british couldn’t eradicate it completely so, unionists will try their hardest to do what they couldn’t, even to the point of crying to the EU to get a dialect/accented english to be seen as an entire language on its own. Laughable.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 07:17 PMYeah, yeah Stoner, the Irish (the real ones - the ones that live in the Republic), they’ve made such a roaring success of ‘Irish’, haven’t that? Can’t walk around down there five minutes without, every day every other month meeting one person in a hundred who speaks, Happens *all* the time, a tiny little bit of the time in another monoglot anglophone society.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 08:20 PM“how many of the Ulster Unionists that defected with wee Jeff are still in the DUP, word is not many?”
Perhaps Darth would know about that?
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 08:21 PMFrom the hearts and minds prog you get the impression Unionist politicians get elected on how bigotted they are as opposed to any real policies that they may have. Poots just showed that in the interview throughout. He also managed to rubbish paisley’s claims from a few years back of a better agreement than the GF agreement. So what the hell were the DUP doing all these years.
All the DUP succeded in doing was making Sinn Féin the largest nationalist party
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 08:24 PM“you say bigot, I say language fascist, let’s call the whole thing off…”
Not at all Bonar Law. I have no problem with you speaking English anywhere you want. You, on the other hand, will not allow Irish to be spoken in courts in Ireland (along with your bigoted Culture!!! minister) - Barbaric.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 09:09 PMMight our Culture Minister be fairly called a culchie?
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 09:16 PMBONARLAW, AHEM et al.
It’s hard to believe that after all the discussions on Slugger and living here in NI/Ireland that you still think Irish Gaelic is an element of Nationalism or a language spoken by a few fanatics.
Have you not seen Imeall Geal on BBC 2? Or tuned into the pop music shows on TG4? Or heard about the new magazine that covers film, travel, technology, sex etc?
Irish has a diverse community of speakers, just like any other tongue, and Edwin Poots’s comments have no place in the 21st century.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 09:24 PMOne almost wonders why you bother to waste your time speaking the alien tongue of the oppressor.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 09:58 PM“Might our Culture Minister be fairly called a culchie? “
Might?
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 10:27 PMOne almost wonders why you bother to waste your time speaking the alien tongue of the oppressor.
I speak English AHEM because i can and it’s one of the most useful languages in the world. It’s also the most spoken tongue in Ireland and enables me to take part in this discussion.
As for Poots being a culchie, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the fact that is believes the earth is flat and discriminates against Gaelic speakers worries me.
Posted by on Feb 15, 2008 @ 10:39 PMThanks, by the way, RG, for *entirely* disproving the fanciful notion that “Irish Gaelic is an element of Nationalism or a language spoken by a few fanatics”. You’re a credit to your native tongue.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 12:22 AMStop being ridiculous AHEM, you used those words in jest, i didn’t use them at all.
Seems Na Ceithearna Coille have picked up on Poots’s biased statements too: http://www.ceithearnacoille.com/page1/page1.html
The text beside his image reads, ‘Edwin Poots: Minister of Ignorance and Bigotry.’
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 12:36 AMFearing a language? lmao numbnuts!
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 12:43 AMExactly BOYNE, some of these guys seem paranoid about a lot of things but trying to stop the Irish language ‘entering NI’ takes the biscuit.
But then again, what more could we expect from a looney Minister for Culture who believes the Earth was created 6,000 years ago!
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 10:28 AM“how many of the Ulster Unionists that defected with wee Jeff are still in the DUP, word is not many?”
Perhaps Darth would know about that? “
Ahem. I’m setting myself up for a fall here, but I know that the DUP constituency chairman was once the UUP constituency chairman- saw him at the count. A leading UUP defector- who would have taken a bullet for Jeffrey- was at the TUV meeting and is now a member, and was reported to have said that a lot of the UUP defectors have left in disgust. No way to verify that though. Most of the TUVvies I know are ex-UUP.
Funny how Jeffrey didn’t show up at the count- he’d still have had time to catch his plane to sunny Portugal for the night’s plotting to oust the Ould Croc with Nige n’Pete
Pootsie’s weak as water arguments were interesting- and show that he has no strategy for dealing with the Irish language- which deserves support in an apolitical context. It’s no more threatening than the teaching of irish history in the context of UK/world events of course. Irish isn’t going to go away, and he needs to wake up to that fact.
Yes Jim Allister doesn’t have a fluffy personality, but that can axctually be an advantage. He has independent means, and no craving to be part of the establishment ( or a wife and weans who do) so he can’t be buttered up by privy councillorships, wedding anniversary gifts etc.
His legal skills work well in debate, and at a time of uncertainty for Unionists his ability to expose the clear contradictions in the DUP is far more effective than the UUP’s bletherers. My guess is that people who just feel unease about Juniorgate, chuckle brothers etc will appreciate his approach, on the basis that “he might be a bastard, but he’s our bastard”. A man you’d want beside you in a street fight always has his uses.And he’s been stupidly gifted a platform by this unnecessary by election which proves there is a large enough element of “rejectionist Unionists”
(proud to wear that name) which could deliver a larger group in the next assembly than Bob Mccartney’s grouping.
A bloc of even six or seven could completely gum up devolution. If the Shinners became the largest party could anyone see Punt as deppity FM to McGuinness? As he rightly said, he can no longer be dismissed as a one man band.But this morning let’s think of those less fortunate than ourselves, like Richard Bullick Punt’s ammanuensis, who thought it would be a cunning plan to tempt Jim back into politics to block the nightmare of RTW McCrea MEP. Punt won’t forgive. Also Wullie Hay, who’ll have to grovel to the other parties in Londonderry for a cooption if he’s to get off the city council rather than face another by election challenge from TUV. Hopefully the UUP will see another chance to make Dundela Avenue squirm.
As for 2009, who’s to say that the UUP won’t transfer to Jim instead of Plug, or even bypass entirely their own colourless and ineffective Jimmy Nick? Not entirely fanciful.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 10:48 AM“Pootsie’s weak as water arguments were interesting- and show that he has no strategy for dealing with the Irish language- which deserves support in an apolitical context. It’s no more threatening than the teaching of irish history in the context of UK/world events of course. Irish isn’t going to go away, and he needs to wake up to that fact.”
Thank the Lord for some sense at last.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 10:53 AMI found myself astounded by Poots’ remarks re Irish on Hearts and Minds.
I know that he holds such views of course but I never thought he would be so direct, so clumsy frankly.
I thought that he would at least manage to keep some semblence of ministerial neutrality and integrity.
It is a phrase quoted too often but this is a turning point I feel.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 11:13 AMI’m sick to the back teeth with this “Dromore will be just like Drogheda” schtick.
Dromore isn’t Dorking, and Drogheda isn’t Darfur. Dromore and Drogheda were two small Irish towns in 1922 and the border was quite secure. There’s no threat to the Union if they retain or even develop many similar characteristics. Good neighbours ought to have mutual respect. It’s far more important to keep both towns free from the control of people unfit to hold public office because of their terrorist and criminal connections.
Poots thinks having some power in his hands is the way to achieve this. But he’s complicit in putting these people into the very heart of government. They’ve lifted the siege by inviting the enemy into the house and signing over the title deeds into joint names, and the doting head of the house can continue to feel it’s his property because he sits at the head of the table at dinnertime.Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 11:18 AMDarth,
Your ananlysis of the inner happenings of Unionist parties is always so enlightening. One always gets the impression that this boy could have went far if he actually had been elected into a significant position.
So after your “bastard” aka Jim Allister manages to get some Ulster Unionists and SF MP’s elected in 2009, and then builds on that to get a few of his own MLA’s elcted at the next assembly election, what is his great strategy for a sustainable future in which Unionists have some say over their governance. As I think I said before to you, everything changed after 1998, changed irreversibly. Now its all about neutering the influence of SF and the Irish republic in the internal affairs of N.I. Perhaps history will judge that the DUP’s greatest mistake was overpromising to right the wrongs that your former party enabled through the Belfast Agreement. We are where we are. What can the TUVies do to right the wrongs? Some of their supporters are integrationists, some are majoritarians and others wouldn’t share power with the Aliance party simply because they have Catholic members.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 12:25 PM“others wouldn’t share power with the Aliance party simply because they have Catholic members.”
I understand that most wouldn’t share power with Sinn Fein simply because they have IRA members.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 02:27 PMI see John McCallister MLA for UUP has photo in the News Letter on Thursday thats why he missed his Health Committee at Stormont as he was in Dromore not representing them.
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 02:34 PMproblem for next European election based on the by election if copied is that DUP TUC and UUP could split the Unionist vote three way fairly even and allow Sinn Fein to top the poll and even allow the SDLP in for the third seat, the minute Sinn Fein top the poll they will call for a boarder poll for a United Ireland, Jim Allistair needs to think this through what he is doing!
Posted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 02:39 PM“the minute Sinn Fein top the poll they will call for a boarder poll for a United Ireland”
Would that poll only be open to people residing in boarding houses?
No biggie:
1. Why would SF be granted this poll wish?
2. If unionist votes continue to exceed 50% no UI
3. SDLP topped 1998 Stormont poll and that meant squatPosted by on Feb 16, 2008 @ 03:33 PM
