Monday, December 17, 2007
“People who were associated with the IRA at some stage were certainly involved in that crime.”
As noted previously, the parents of Paul Quinn have met the Republic of Ireland’s Foriegn Affairs Minister, Dermot Ahern, to discuss the ongoing investigation and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s earlier comments. RTÉ radio talked to Paul’s father, Stephen Quinn [RealPlayer file], on what was said at the meeting, his wish for a further meeting with the Taoiseach, and what the Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, and the NI Regional Development minister, Conor Murphy, have said. And, as he belatedly noted, Mark Devenport spoke to Chief Constable, Hugh Orde, about the murder, and other things, on Saturday’s Inside Politics. During the interview he restated that, “In our judgement, no evidence currently to say this was an authorised event”, [Not “corporately involved”? - Ed] but Hugh Orde also said [RealPlayer file 5mins in]
“I think everyone’s fairly clear on this. People who were associated with the IRA at some stage were certainly involved in that crime.”
It is “far better people tell the truth on the thing..” Adds RTÉ report.
Pete Baker @ 02:13 PM
Lot of links and rambling to get at the same point everyone seems to have known for awhile.
Justice needs to be served for the Quinn family.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 04:27 PMJustice needs be done for all crime and especially when people are murdered by paramilitaries. We are not progressing rapidly enough in all matters related to Law and Order and Shoey Orde comes over as complacent and arrogant -like a police version of David Trimble. We need to let people in disadvantaged areas see that they will have a better deal and a better life and better conditions and that right soon. We need to get the scum and the drug dealers,extortionists and thugs into prison asap.
We cannot afford to slip back into turning a blind eye to murder.We valso need to be unequivocal in condemenation of attacks on Orange halls and GAA clubs. We need to ensure foreign workers are treated with dignity and respect and not exploited-starting with those used to advertise the Belfast Telegraph at city cross roads. We are either up for a better future for all or we are part of the problem.
T.RuthPosted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 05:16 PMT.Ruth
As usual there is little truth in what you posted. No where did Orde say that paramilitaires were involved infact he said the opposite. What he did say is that likely former paramilitaries were involved and I do not think anyone is disputing that.Funny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 05:28 PMFunny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity
yeah so everyone please shut about this.
stop investigating it
be a little like the dead man’s mp --- dont bother with going to any meeting concerning the death of a constituent.
thats the example, steve wants us to follow.
problem is, steve, that loads of nationalists and republicans completely agree with the full investigation into this crime
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 06:07 PMand the same old ruc are harassing children at will all under the watch of mcguinness and co
http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/PSNI-39The-thought-police39.3590230.jpPosted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 06:13 PMharry:
Funny though in 2006 when unionist paramilitaries shot 5 people we never observed anywhere near this level of press activity
Yes, but we never heard elected politicians speaking publicly in an effort to blacken the names of the victims.
yeah so everyone please shut about this.
stop investigating it
You might like to see a large group of sadistic psychopaths breaking every single bone in a young man’s body and getting away with it, but you can be assured that the rest of us do not. This problem will not go away. If you think it will, then go to hell.
be a little like the dead man’s mp --- dont bother with going to any meeting concerning the death of a constituent.
You mean, do not support attempts by the family to get justice for the death of their loved one. Yes, that’s what our Conor is doing.
problem is, steve, that loads of nationalists and republicans completely agree with the full investigation into this crime
Except you. You’re just after saying that they should stop investigating it. Clearly you think that psychopaths who murder innocent people should be allowed to continue to do so. You are clearly very, very disturbed.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 06:51 PMdont worry, oh yeah wtf....
sf members* of the DPP riding white stallions of justice will come swiftly to this poor man’s aid.
have faith in the toothless gums of the DPP.
(*NB- caution, not all SF councillors will join when told to.)
“**NB-- some lady SF councillosr will get a damn good spanking for not doing what they are told. cheeky little madam)
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 06:54 PMcomrade S.
perhaps the sarcasm in my post above was not as obvious as i had hoped it was
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 06:56 PMNo, your sarcasm wasn’t obvious at all.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 08:45 PMDo MPs and MLAs have any immunity from prosecution in either Northern Ireland or the Republic?
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 09:19 PMI have read a lot these past few weeks about Sinn Féin ‘s attempts to blacken the young fellow’s name but only on Slugger. The only comment that I am aware of is Gerry Adams saying that it was more likely to be a fallout between diesel smugglers than a paramilitary beating.Have the rest of you been reading different papers or has this just ‘growed and growed’? It’s a long time since I felt such a flood of righteous anger. It should not have happened - end of story!
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 09:34 PMI doubt there is one person in NI who doesn’t want to see the scum who murdered Quinn locked up for life.
However, why is it when a person is killed in a nationalist area, unionists immediately start ranting about whether this was ‘ordered’ by the IRA.
Let’s face it, the IRA no longer exist as a single entity. As for the army council - if there is no army (ie: arms) then it is just a council - a group of moustachioed men sitting in a hotel room in Sligo.
Woudln’t it be better for the likes of William McCrea, who made a half-assed attempt to be ‘concerned’ that the killing might have been ordered by central command, to campaign for the gunmen from his own party’s electorate to give up their weapons of death?
Where were the ‘Not In My Name’ rallys after Jackie McDonald spoke about the ‘people’s guns’?
All we got were welcomes of the UDA’s ‘positive step’.
Can you remember any unionist welcoming the early commitments to decommissioning from the provos? Was the term ‘positive step’ ever used? Na...thought not.Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 09:41 PM“The only comment that I am aware of is Gerry Adams saying that it was more likely to be a fallout between diesel smugglers than a paramilitary beating”
Conor Murphy made the accusation of criminality on the TV.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 10:26 PMTá go maith, Dewi. Change that to Gerry Adams/Conor Murphy. It doesn’t alter the case that much.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 10:28 PMPancho’s Horse
“I have read a lot these past few weeks about Sinn Féin ‘s attempts to blacken the young fellow’s name but only on Slugger.”Well yes indeed there have been allegations about attempts to blacken Mr. Quinn’s name on slugger.
Amongst them we have this offering from Mr. Chris Gaskin (a member of SF I believe?)
“There are things which are public knowledge in South Armagh about this case but which as of yet have not entered the “public” sphere. They haven’t been put into the public domain because many would view it as an attempt to blacken the victims name or as some attempt at justification.
Many of those who decry the lack of evidence about criminal activity would do well to be careful about what they wish for. “
6th December 10.43pm link here.Mr. Gaskin has also been busy commenting on Mr. Quinn’s alledged criminality on Balrog “Paul Quinn was involved in criminal activity, that’s a fact that most people are aware of.” Comments section of “Ulterior motives” blog at 2:51pm 28th November link here.
I note, however, that Mr. Gaskin has gone away from this story. Were his contributions counter productive I wonder?
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 10:51 PMPopeth yn Iawn Pancho’s Horse. Just it all has to end - punishment beatings, shooting coppers, burning orange halls, drug dealing in the name of some principle or other.
It’s the detail that’s important over the coming decades.
Pete’s post on the economy illustrates that an “all island” economy is the common policy and that cross border trade is beginning to boom. Demographics are equalising and a peaceful persuasive route to a United Ireland is possible. Personal view is that now is the time for Army Council to disband and reconstitute as a Veterans’ Society with no links to Sinn Fein. Retire with honour and focus on regeneration and building cross-community links. Easier said than done I know.Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 11:17 PMDewi,
I enjoy your posts and always find what you say interesting even when I do not agree with it. This one, though, does stretch credulity a bit too far:-
“Retire with honour and focus on regeneration and building cross-community links.”“Easier said tha done I know.” is an understatement of epic proportions on a number of levels.
Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 11:23 PM“Understatement of epic proportions.”
I know - but it’s what’s required even it might seem a little difficult to achieve.
Some of the economic progress (despite the headlines) quite astonishing. Lowest unemployment rate in the UK for instance. Convinced that:
1) Economic focus.
2) Zero tolerance of sectarian crime.
3) Fierce attempts by Unionist community to somehow reduce intensity of 12th.
Will together produce a sustainable peaceful future.
My expectation is of a transformation in the Unionist view of a UI. But if that does not happen I am still convinced that huge progress has already been made and a dynamic peaceful society can be achieved (emphasis on dynamic in a cultural, political and economic sense).Posted by on Dec 17, 2007 @ 11:52 PMSF proclaim themselves to be “the only all Ireland party”. So ...
Have SF TD’s placed any question in the Dail requesting the Minister of Justice to reveal the progress made in this investigation? Why not? What questions have they asked instead?
Has any SF MLA placed a motion to the Assembly to condemn this murder? Why not? What motions have they put instead?
We can all draw our own conclusions from the above – but – it is becoming ever clearer that SF is loosing popularity in their heartland. It may not matter much – these ‘heartlands’ still re-elect the representatives of street thugs using the excuse of distrust in the instruments of criminal justice. Challenging questions arise …
How can trust be built? Is such a project the responsibility of the people living in these ‘heartlands’ alone? If so, what is the state when – de facto – it doesn’t operate in certain areas? Is any attempt to build trust imponderable because it opens the state to SF propaganda? Is this a price worth paying?
On a more immediate and practical matter – if these murderers are brought to justice it will be for a murder committed in the Republic of Ireland.
What is the maximum penalty in the south for murder?
What is the sentence remission in the south?
On conviction, can the murderers be moved to the north? If so, is there a requirement that they serve the sentences laid by a southern court?
In months the Criminal Justice Order eliminating automatic 50% remission will be on the statute books. Since this crime was committed before the Order becomes law – will they be eligible for automatic remission?
If transferred north, will the murderers be tried for the crime of kidnapping (committed north of the border) and, if convicted, the sentences then added to their southern sentences – or will such sentences be “concurrent”?At the very least I hope these dozen or so enjoy their Christmas this year, visit Portlaoise for several years, get transferred north (as they surely will) to face the law with no automatic remission and then get kidnapping ADDED to their sentences.
I’m dreaming of course. Nothing like this will happen. It’s not “who you know” that will determine what happens here but “what you know about who you know”.
Here enters SF stage left. I could be proved wrong of course – still waiting ….
We can all draw our own conclussions
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 12:49 AMRubicon,
someone studying law might be able to help with those questions.My query is this:
I always took it as de facto that the South would join with the North, and it was the unionists that had to be persuaded.
Based on what most people believe, though not as yet proven, I can’t imagine any southerner wanting to join up with county containing the murdering bastards of south armagh.So Ulster will be British for a long time, the thugs have seen to that, certainly until the problems of law and order are resolved in “Gods Country”.
Its hard to imagine a worse set-back for unity than a) the murder b)the cover-up.
If only true republicans in SF or the IRA could grasp this, they’d turn their real anger on the perpetrators and not SDLP or anyone else.
If Slab was found swinging from a tree next week, yes it would be wrong ; but the anger would be understandable.
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 02:32 AMI just read Chris Gaskin’s comments on this site and all I can say is that it would be better if Chris stopped blogging for a while.
I am more republican that most contributors to sluggerotoole and I was horrified by the brutal killing of Paul Quinn. Even if he was less that an ideal citizen he did not deserve such a brutal death and he leaves behind grieving parents and friends.
If I knew anything (and I don’t) I would be reluctant to go to the PSNI but that doesn’t mean that I would support these activities. They have nothing to do with getting Britain out of Ireland and have more to do with people lining their own pockets. That is probably why people like former SF MLAs Jim Mcalister and Pat McNamee have led in supporting the family.
I suspect groups of ex IRA volunteers have gone freelance and I hope someone in S Armagh brings them under control but, having said that, it would be better if republicans just kept quite and let the Quinn family mourn in peace .
The only good thing from this the surge in concern for their fenian neighbours from Unionist politicians
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 02:55 AMNow now you lot, stop laying into Chris.
I am confident Chris is a man of his word, he is most definately not a member of Sinn Féin!
Before the election Chris announced on no less a vehicle than sluggerotoole that if the sainted beard and its cronies signed up to policing he would resign his membership.
I am confident he followed through on that???? (smirk)
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 08:35 AMRTEs primetime last night certainly seemed to link the murder to fuel smuggling (at least implicitly).
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 09:38 AMWhile all the emphasis so far has been on the Sinners, and rightly so, the hypocrisy of the DUP in this matter is amazing.
the presures of office have really come home to paisley and Co and they have failed to act honourably.
Their actions concern me because as they turn a blind eye to this, what will they ignore next?
For years unionism has been accused of turning a blind eye to loyalism now they are ignoring any form of paramilitaries - some may see this as equality others may see it as progress. personally I see it as simple root in greed, power and position
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 10:03 AMRed Branch, apart from Spotlight, the BBC ‘political wing’ seems a bit reluctant to dig too deeply. For example, I passed my Ballee research - taken mostly from court reports and BBC interviews - and submitted it to Mark Devenport’s blog; it remains unpublished. The research clearly demonstrated that Paisley Junior was misleading the viewers, deliberately or otherwise. Perhaps the relationships between the political correspondents and the politicos are too close for the public good.
Posted by on Dec 18, 2007 @ 11:57 AM
