Monday, March 10, 2008
Paisley has had the last laugh on Republicans…
It’s hard to know what Gerry Adams really thinks about Ian Paisley. Last week, he refered to the First Minister as a fascinating and respectful in his dealings. Yesterday, at a Republican commemoration in Milltown Cemetary, he suggested in his address that the DUP had been ‘careless’ to lose, not one but two Paisleys. Anthony McIntyre thinks the Big Man has had the last laugh:
Ultimately, history might be unkind to Ian Paisley, judging him as the man who abandoned all his beliefs for a slice of power, only to fall on the extremist sword he had fashioned to perfection. A more astute assessment might well conclude that, in essence, the old theocrat never really changed. In government, he secured what had long eluded him outside of it—Sinn Fein’s acceptance of second-class citizenship. His perpetual dismissal of Martin McGuinness as ‘the deputy’ was par for the Paisley course. That the Derry Catholic should prove so deferential to the ‘big man’ negated a lifetime spent insisting that God made Catholics but the armalite rifle made them equal.
Ian Paisley can step into retirement chuckling at his achievements: partition into perpetuity and the union with Britain as secure as it has ever been. His has been one political odyssey that defies Enoch Powell’s dictum “all political careers end in failure”.
Mick Fealty @ 11:39 AM
When he heard about Paisley’s retirement an old Belfast Catholic called Doherty showed up outside the DUP Headquarters with a huge poster which read :
” Thank you , Rev Ian , for our happy childhood”
The new future DUP leader Peter Robinson saw the poster and immediately ran outside went over to the oul Fenian and said :
‘What’s the matter with you old man ? How old are you anyway ? ‘
’ 95 years of age ’ says oul Doherty nonchalantly .
‘Why , when you were a child , Ian Paisley had’nt even been born yet ! says Robinson
‘That’s exactly what I’m thanking him for’ says oul Doherty.
‘A more astute assessment might well conclude that, in essence, the old theocrat never really changed.’
Sometimes change means same old by a different route . By the time this American Presidential election is over I’m sure the ‘word’ change will have taken on a new meaning similar perhaps to Potemkin village !
Mc Intyre may be right but IMO the most interesting part of Paisley’s apparent metamorphus from crude ultra Prod frog into charming Pape friendly near saint is the ‘why’ ?It will be decade before we know assuming we ever do !
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:30 PMMaybe Anthony if you had taken the chip off your shoulder and helped secure votes for the Derry Catholics party rather than dissenting, the said Derry Catholic may well have refered to Mr Paisly as deputy but that would mean giving something positive to the community you once held dear.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:33 PMMick,
Dream on boy. There will never be a DUP “deputy” to Derry Catholic at Stormont!
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:38 PMYeah Paul, and there would never be a Governmet involving Sinn Fein and the DUP, dreams can be made into reality Paul P, it won’t be long now son.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:56 PMPaul P
The catholic majority in school age children suggests otherwise.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 02:16 PMMaybe Anthony if you had taken the chip off your shoulder and helped secure votes for the Derry Catholics party rather than dissenting, the said Derry Catholic may well have refered to Mr Paisly as deputy but that would mean giving something positive to the community you once held dear.
Posted by mick_c on Mar 10, 2008 @ 12:33 PM
oh yes.. the climax of sinn fein’s ambitions… that Martin becomes the first minister of a stormont administration. implementing policy direct from london, whilst retaining the PIRA army council for, as TD O’Caolain puts it…a bulwark aginst republicans.Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 02:53 PMsorry Harry, I don’t think Sinn Fein see that as thier “climax” but a step in the right direction. Would you like to offer an alternative approach to thier gaining thier ambitions ?
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 03:04 PMWhat a depressing post from Mick c, the whole thing was about nothing more than being top dog in a mockney British parliament, the likes of which no Englishman would give the time of day.
If ‘harrys’ post has some truth in it, the Provos have not even morphed into Broys Harriers but a UK version of the South Lebanese Army.
Is it any wonder the turn outs for these commemorations seem to be getting smaller. I wonder exactly who is advising SF these days, a commemoration for the Gib three in Stormont of all places?
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 03:10 PMPisley may be laughing now but come the end of may he will be yesterdays news and he will be gone. The sterner face of the DUP will be left to work with Martin McGuinness, Gerry Kelly and the likes that won’t be easy for Gregory and co now they can blame Paisley then they will be on their own.
Paisley claims to have smashed Sinn Fein and he knows better than anyone Sinn Fein is far from smashed. Sinn Fein may have been bruised in the past year it came from the south certainly not from the North. If the two recent by elections for council seats in the north are anything to go by the parties in the north under pressure is the DUP and the SDLP.
Sinn Feins aspirations to First Minister status in the north is far from the end it will serve as a bridge head to further advancements. Sinn Fein have recently set up a group to examine how to move to the next stage, a United Ireland. Paisley, mackers and many on this board may be laughing, they should remember that the games not over to the fat lady sings.
A United Ireland is now more than ever on the political agenda across this island and it will become more and more relevant as the days pass. Cancer Services is a clear example of how it will become a reality to people in their every day lives. If you live in Sligo,Leitrim, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Donegal or Derry the nearest treatment centre will be Belfast or Galway. The argument from the HSE and DHSSPS is that the population doesn’t merit a centre in the North West. The population divided by two it may not but the catchment across the entire Northwest certainly does. So when these issue start biting the practical issue of a United Ireland will start to impact.
Sinn Fein will be the party that will be pushing teh United Ireland agenda more and more as the days, months and years go by. Then we will see who ahs the last laugh.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 04:02 PMwant some cheap lamberts, j kelly?
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 04:21 PMJ Kelly,
Sorry to dampen a “stand up for Londonderry” typed moment but the population of the whole North West does not merit a cancer centre. Centralisation and specialisation of services is critical to the provision of modern health care. As such whilst a satellite centre may have some merit in Altnagelvin the simple fact is that care is best provided in fewer centres, hence, allowing cancer doctors to subspecialise. In this case the centres are in Belfast and Sligo.
I care little about which people go to provided they get adequate care. A much more relevant question would be which cancer drugs are available on the NHS in each jurisdiction and which are not. But when local politicians are presented with a choice between having the best possible health care and having slightly less good health care more locally, it is clear which they choose for their constituents. I wonder which they would choose for themselves?
Unfortunately since health care is not a bottomless pit hard choices have to be made and at this time spending money on a Cancer Centre for Londonderry would mean we had less money to spend elsewhere reducing or not improving other services. Furthermore it would result in each cancer doctor having to treat a wider range of cancers in Londonderry; hence, over time reducing each doctors specialist knowledge and ability to adopt new techniques in each area of cancer. Flowing from that would be less good care for the people of Londonderry.
Still why let such unfortunate things stand in the way of another cavalcade.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 04:32 PMThats just a makey-uppey name. Doire Cholm Cille I’m sure you mean. Langer.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 05:45 PMMicky whats silly point are you making that if people stopped smoking cheap fags they wouldn’t get cancer.
Turgon cancer services are being stripped out of Sligo and centralised in Galway. The issue isn’t about cancer services it was only used, because its topical presently, to make the broader point a united Ireland will become inevitable in the not too distance future.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 06:01 PMIt was good to here “Robbo” talk rather optimistically about the relationship today between north and south. He even nearly smiled in the course of the interview. I suppose the hardcore Unionists will have “Mr Stiff Upper Lip” himself next for the chopping block if he shows any kinda warmth toward Irish Nationalists. Roll out Jimmy and then Grego.
Regarding Paisley, what a selfish man, an opportunist if ever there was one, and an out and out liar. He duped the rather “sheepish” element of Ulster Protestant folk all his political life. Stirring it up by demonising Catholics and any anyone else who opposed his blinkered views. Paranoia abound. He was appaling really! Many lying cold in the ground today because of his vitriol.Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 06:07 PM“good to here” should be “good to hear”..... DOH!
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 06:08 PMJ Kelly,
Maybe it is inevitable; I doubt it. Just like union between Scotland and England is inevitable, or the USA and Canada?Union will occur if the people here want it; unfortunately for you, SF’s friends in the IRA have ensured that to many of my community we would oppose it all the more. If there ever was a union I very much doubt if we would feel united with republicans. That is the gross self perpetuated failure of the stated aims of the republican movement, a failure advanced by every shooting and every bombing.
Of course I suspect that the unity the republican movement wants is not the rather trite and insulting “Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter” invoking a false distinction between Protestant and Dissenter. No the unity desired by the reopublican movement as proven over the years both before and after the ceasefire is a unity of victory of its own ideology over that of unionists and any nationalsist who dare stand in its way. It has much more in common with the unity desired by dictators of various stripes throughout history.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 06:10 PMRe RUC Man,
Typical Cork-man - self-appointed authorities on everything!!
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 06:45 PM“In government, he secured what had long eluded him outside of it—Sinn Fein’s acceptance of second-class citizenship. His perpetual dismissal of Martin McGuinness as ‘the deputy’ was par for the Paisley course.”
But under the Agreement McGuinness is effectively co-First Minister. Paisley might have called him “Deputy” but the old fool would have known better. (I hope.)
“A United Ireland is now more than ever on the political agenda across this island and it will become more and more relevant as the days pass. Cancer Services is a clear example of how it will become a reality to people in their every day lives. If you live in Sligo,Leitrim, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Donegal or Derry the nearest treatment centre will be Belfast or Galway. The argument from the HSE and DHSSPS is that the population doesn’t merit a centre in the North West. The population divided by two it may not but the catchment across the entire Northwest certainly does. So when these issue start biting the practical issue of a United Ireland will start to impact.“Sinn Fein will be the party that will be pushing teh United Ireland agenda more and more as the days, months and years go by. Then we will see who ahs the last laugh.”
Oh here we go again. Take a look at Geneva. It is surrounded on virtually all sides by France. Is there going to be a change of sovereignty anytime soon? I bet not. People live in France and commute to work. There are plenty of other bits of Europe where an urban centre has a hinterland within another state. So what? Never mind cancer services, perhaps we need more psychological care in the health service so the likes of J.Kelly can get over his delusions.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 07:19 PMWith Paisley gone there will be enormous pressure on the press to raise the past scandal that he, Paisley, has been part of, i.e. David Ervine’s wallpaper remarks. Republicans may feel that the pressure is then off them to maintain Gerry Adams as a similar god-like figure, and they may begin to release information that takes away from his divine image. Paisley and Adams feed off each other. Paisley going will enable their enemies to attack both theses demagogues and this may mean that Adams has to go too.
I predict that there will be strong pressure on Adams to go in May too. He is after all a spent force so far as the South is concerned, and a weary potential liability in Northern terms. Remember “I am not and never have been an IRA member.” That’s a risky approach.
I guess that the press will move into overdrive in their pursuit of both these characters in the next sixty days.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 09:06 PMOf course I suspect that the unity the republican movement wants is not the rather trite and insulting “Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter” invoking a false distinction between Protestant and Dissenter.
The distinction between Protestant and Dissenter is not a false one, and it is virtually only in Northern Ireland that these disparate sects have managed to forge a common identity. For as long as the Established Church ruled supreme and Presbyterians were discriminated against, or perceived themselves as such, many among their ranks took an interest in revolutionary politics. Nowadays the bulk of Presbyterians can be classed as Protestants. Dissenters nowadays are those whose religious ideas are so far from anything Biblical they cannot be called Protestants. Perhaps Unitarians and Quakers, certainly Scientologists and Hare Krishnas are the modern Dissenters.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 09:36 PMTurgon, is it not a bit disingenuous of you to suggest that if the Provisional Alliance had not launched their ‘campaign of terror’ that the colonial types would have been bursting themselves to throw up their privileged position and rush madly into a United Ireland or at least a settlement with the natives? If the white S Africans/Rhodesians could have avoided democracy, they would have.You can’t seem to grasp (or maybe you can) the fact that once the planters start to mix with the planted and grant them equality in their own country, then the show is over and a return to the mainland (sic) is the only option.THis imagined racial/religious/linguistic superiority is the colonial raison d’etre and if it is removed then all is lost.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 09:57 PMJ Kelly,
If I want plastic surgery, possibly a face transplant (probably a good idea) I would guess that the nearest place which specializes is France. Should when then be pushing a United Ireland+France agenda ?
In fact, in general where the interests of people living in two nations happen to coincide, should we throw away the national border ? What’s the point in national borders in the first place anyway, why don’t we get the best of both worlds and have Ireland join the UK ?
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 10:37 PM..... or better still. Have the UK join Europe?
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 10:56 PMPancho’s horse,
I know you are no idiot but I think this racial superiority stereotype is inaccurate. I am a pretty upper middle class unionist as is my wife, we really never thought like that neither did our parents. Yes some of the proper Big House Prods might have but they were a small minority.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 11:07 PMHow is it that people who support PSF can talk about how unionists are being rolled back by things like cancer provision (and I see Comrade Stalin has beaten me to the analogy with people from the UK going to France) and ignore the glaring u-turns that have been done by PSF?
Rather than say, yes compromises have been made in order to improve the quality of life, but the fundamental goal remains the same. The trumpeting of a taskforce on Irish unity being established (as opposed to what, the entire party?) is laughable. So a group from the leadership asks some people to cherrypick some stuff from old documents on a UI. I’m sure unionists are shaking in their boots and about to admit defeat.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 11:17 PM
