Tuesday, April 25, 2006
Out of Order…
REV Brian Kennaway has been a senior member of the Orange Order for over 40 years. In an extract from his new book - The Orange Order: a tradition betrayed - in today’s Tele, he reveals how the Order in recent years has sheltered loyalist terrorists in its ranks and failed to discipline them. It’s an embarrassing catalogue of failure that has left those who still believe in the Order’s core values wondering what the organisation now stands for.
Belfast Gonzo @ 02:13 PM
Brian Kennaway is not a senior member of the Orange Institution, and its a measure of the tolerance that exists within the OO that he hasn’t been expelled, given his seeming obseesion with attacking an organisation he’s supposed to be a member of.
Yes, the OO does need change, particularly in terms of leadership, but Kennaway needs to ask himself does his constatnt sniping in the pages of newspapers make that more or less likely to occur. A shameless media junkie.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 02:31 PM“A shameless media junkie.”
We live in a media age - what would u rather he do, hide under the blanket?
Exposing problems to the light, regardless of where those problems lie, tends to be the best way of resolving them............
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 02:53 PMloyalist,
“Kennaway needs to ask himself does his constatnt sniping in the pages of newspapers make that more or less likely to occur.”Why yes, that’s exactly what it is most likely to do.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 03:32 PMwell firstly he’s no longer a member, which the publishers obviously don’t want to highlight.But let’s look closer at this earthshattering tome, from my review copy ...
BK lists all the old stories of members who have let the Order down in one handy chapter of horrors for ease of reference. Surprisingly, he’s more exercised by the fact that some were nominally Orangemen than that some were nominally Presbyterian- but then that wouldn’t sell too many books.
He’s rehashed the complaints about Drumcree that were better analysed in a dozen books five years ago.
He’s given an interminable diary of just about every Orange meeting he was at for five years- a commendable feat of endurance, but not enough to make in interesting- Godsonesque in the minutiae, but at least Godson was tracing the political future of Northern Ireland, not every single meeting at which a minor cleric ever spoke .
He’s taken a whole chapter to whine about the lack of vision of those who..er, essentially couldn’t appreciate the brilliance of his education Committee. “See me, I’m dead brilliant” is never an attractive theme in a book. One particularly telling quotation is in the latter half of the book , when he does not respond to a letter from arch villain Bobby Saulters ( who when he was following the Kennaway line was a good bloke) because, apparently,he objected to Saulters’ poor grammar in the letter.
But the real gripe in this book is the shift in the structure of the Grand Orange Lodge from a largely self perpetuating oligarchy to a body based on “one district one vote”.
Many Ulster Unionists believe this to have played a pivotal role in tipping the Institution to an anti-Agreement, anti- Trimble stance. Seen in this light, it is no surprise that the reviews include praise from the Turtle himself, Ruth Dudley Edwards, and other members of Trimble’s kitchen cabinet. No surprise either , that the Turtle is guest of honour at the launch on Friday night.
So there we have it- until Trimble’s autohagiography, the last whinge of Vichy Unionism. The revenge of the appeasement Unionist will undoubtedly be embarassing for GOLI- for the rest of this week. It will no doubt allow this Pooter of Presbyterianism a brief return to the media platform for the attention he used to enjoy. It will be pored over by every SF/ residents’ group strategist for ammunition. The pity of it is, that perhaps twenty percent of the book is insightful, ten percent needed to be said, and the rest is padding that needed a much more ruthless editor.Hopefully Brian is better at sermons.
As for its impact on the Order , as the old saying goes “ A man feared o’ a fart is nae use in a thunderstorm”. Sadly most Orangemen will ignore the few valid points because they are drowned in self-pathos and sanctimony.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 03:40 PMI can understand why members of an organisation that is founded on principles of virulent anti-catholic sentiment might feel a little bit miffed if any members were threatened with expulsion for being a bit zealous in their anti-catholic activities.
I’m sure it would make much more sense to them if members were threatened with expulsion for being nice to, for being tolerant of catholics. I mean what’s the point of joining the Ku Klux Klan if you don’t get to hang the odd .nn..nn..n.African-American citizen every now and then?
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 03:45 PMSo there we have it- until Trimble’s autohagiography, the last whinge of Vichy Unionism.
Heh, I don’t necessarily agree, but that was a funny line.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 04:03 PMThe book will make for interesting reading but what are the motives behind the author?
An Army With Banners by William Brown was also a good read and dealt with similar themes but the author, rumour has it, was passed over for promotion (can you get promoted?) in the order a few times so he wanted his own back. That was told to me by a colleague who is in a lodge somewhere.
Regardless of the Authors motives, the order desperately needs a review of its antiquated rules. You are not allowed to join if a grandparent is a Roman Catholic, David Trimble was blasted by the Order for attending the funeral mass of an Omagh bomb victim, members are not allowed to attend Catholic service or marry catholics.
I don’t have a problem with the OO, I just think they need a bloody good PR person.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 04:19 PMits a measure of the tolerance that exists within the OO…
(collapse of stout party)
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 04:20 PMThis book will sell like hot cakes. The excerpt in today’s Tele was dynamite - just because you know the Order are a bunch of loyalist-loving hypocrites and weaklings doesn’t lesson the impact of seeing it laid out chapter and verse in black and white in every sordid detail.
A very, very large nail in their coffin, in my opinion.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 04:25 PMdarth rumsfeld,
So what your saying is.. he aint invited to your birthday bash.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 04:54 PMJimmy Porter thinks that the only problem with the Orange Order is that “they need a bloody good PR person”. Perhaps so. Alas! Dr.Goebbels is deceased and I think the task is beyond even the skills of either Alistair Campbell or James Carvill. Whom would he suggest?
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 05:12 PMposted by Kathy C
Hi all,
Rory, I loved your first post....ever so true!
I think many unionist/loyalist in the north of Ireland are seeing the orange order for what it truely is.... I see it as a hate group. Even the BBC report on this thread mentions how the orange order upholds the rule and ascendancy of a protestant monarch. The orange order thus by it’s very nature doesn’t want to see a Catholic on the throne and thus wants to keep the law that forbides this. The north of Ireland right now is ruled by her majesty’s gov’t....a majesty that by law can not be a Catholic. Ergo...that gives the protestants especiallyof the orange order a feeling and rightfully so, of being superior because they want a monarch and the laws says that monarch CAN NOT be Catholic.
As for Sinn Fein in all of this....now they say the orange order is part of the heritage and it’s ok to march except down certain streets. I find that hypocritcal. Either it is heritage and can march down every street or it is wrong and shouldn’t march down any street. Can’t have it both ways....but by followering their current approach...it is so AC/DC...they don’t want to offend and everything is all right by them.
WOuldn’t it be ironic if the protestant abandon the orange order before sinn fein does.Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 05:28 PMAre the accusations actually true? Anyone with the balls to answer honestly?
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 05:45 PMrory said
I can understand why members of an organisation that is founded on principles of virulent anti-catholic sentiment might feel a little bit miffed if any members were threatened with expulsion for being a bit zealous in their anti-catholic activities.replace anti-catholic with anti-protestant and you have the catholic church
all protestants still going to hell and not christians according to the Church of Rome
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 05:49 PMNot a thought
Thats not true in any sense. The catholic church was not FOUNDED for the reason of anti protestantism.Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 06:05 PMJust a though - sorry, ca you please tell me when a leader of the ‘Church of Rome’ said that non-Christians, let alone felow Christians, are destined for hell because of their not being Catholics?
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 06:43 PMposted by Kathy C
Hi all, when a person wants to convert to Catholism and has been baptised by a protestant denomination that the Catholic church recognizes...then the person does not have to be re-baptised becaue the Catholic church recognizes the baptism...seems like the Catholic church is rather tolerant and accepting other churches authority when it comes to baptisms...I know this because my sister was a sponsor for a presbyterian woman who wanted to convert to Catholism. All the church required was proof that she was baptised by the presbytarian church and she didn’t have to be re-baptised. I wonder if Ian Paisly’s church would accept a Catholic’s baptism as the person is baptised?
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 07:04 PM... on the other hand I was told by members of a Free P prayer group while at the U of U, that not only could I not enter the gates of heaven (on account of being an RC) but that only born again Christians could enter because of pre-destination/determination or such wank.
Thank Jaisus because when I die I don’t want to see that shower again.Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 07:34 PMHonest question: will this book tell me what the OO is actually FOR? I’ve never come across a satisfactory explanation.
Is it a charity? Do they help worthy causes? Surely they must do more than congregate in funny clothes and march about the place.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 08:04 PMMaca
I think Darth has already answered you. Of course it is all true.
But it was all a long time ago, it has been covered so much better in other books, he is just bitter and twisted and has a book to sell. yada yada.
Sorry Darth you are so Alistair Campbell. (Is that a bit man not ball?). However since you will someday have a book out, I look forward to it.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 08:33 PMWillis
Thanks but…
“it was all a long time ago” yet in the main post ... “he reveals how the Order in recent years has sheltered loyalist terrorists in its ranks”How much of this is true? I don’t care what this guy’s motives are or how bitter or twisted he might be, if the Order is not the organisation people make it out to be then we have the right to know the truth.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 08:53 PMhttp://www.grandorange.org.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order
David
Dont know if you were being serious or not, but I think that learning about the OO is a good step forward in understanding it.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 09:03 PMAnyone wanting to learn more about the Orange Order can visit http://www.grandorange.org.uk/.
I live on the outskirts of a large Nationalist town, and when we used to go for our 12th July Celebrations our catholic neighbour would tend our herd. On the August 15th we would do likewise for him. Our catholic greengrocer would give us a bag of fruit (we were kids then, and he died young unfortunately) for the big day out. I know for a fact our local orange lodge has raised thousands of pounds for homeless people, particulary the hospice and other such causes which benefit all sections of the community. In my analysis the orange order is greatly misunderstood, and has not helped itself over some parades in particular.But i cannot see the circumstances where i would leave the order as i belive it is a legitimate body which represents my culture and beliefs. The nationalists have very well spread propaganda and innuendo about the order for many years by always focusing on the hundreds of year old qualifications. (Cant attend mass etc etc, i personally know many orangemen who have attended many masses). If protestants were to perpuate stories about the catholic church, they could equally cite the CC Doctrines of their right to kill heretics, which they have continually exercised over hundreds upon hundreds of years up until modern day/ It is fact that the catholic church was directly involved in genocide in serbia, vietnam in WWII it actively persecuted the jews. as for involment in terrorist acts in N Ireland, we know a Catholic priest was involved in the claudy bombings, and anyone who has read Sean OCallaghans book, knows that after he shot the policeman he was taken to the safe house of 2 preists who congratulated him, and scouted the roads the next day to ensure there were no army checkpoints. So can people see why protestants distrust the catholic church as an INSTUITION, not individual members, that in essence is the cause of the formartion of the orange order. So until the cause of the formation of the Orange is removed, there will be an orange order.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 09:16 PMAs for Sinn Fein in all of this....now they say the orange order is part of the heritage and it’s ok to march except down certain streets. I find that hypocritcal. Either it is heritage and can march down every street or it is wrong and shouldn’t march down any street. Can’t have it both ways....but by followering their current approach...it is so AC/DC...they don’t want to offend and everything is all right by them.
WOuldn’t it be ironic if the protestant abandon the orange order before sinn fein does.Posted by Kathy_C on Apr 25, 2006 @ 06:28 PM
Kathy,
I would agree with this. I think that all marches both Orange and Green should be completely outlawed. Firstly, it would make for a far more pleasant summer for everyone, secondly it would give Police more time to concentrate on real life issues. Other modern European societies do not require their citizens to march (invariably in a very provocative manner), so why Northern Ireland?
Tradition, people say. Well there are many traditions that modern society has correctly erradicated, so why not this? It makes it very unpleasant for outsiders like myself living here, and actually puts me off bringing my family up here. I suppose it is your country and you all have your ways of expressing how you feel (but it will never be my country as a result). You would have a far greater international and UK wide respect and image if it all stopped. It would also make Northern Ireland a better and more tolerant country.
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 09:16 PMI’m sure I paid £10.00 for Darths’ last book ...
Posted by on Apr 25, 2006 @ 09:25 PM
