Thursday, November 01, 2007
Orange hall razed in Republic…
YET another Orange hall has been burnt out in Ulster, this time on the other side of the border. It’s the third to be destroyed out of 10 in County Cavan over the last 20 years.
Belfast Gonzo @ 10:40 AM
Such vandalism carried out no doubt by ignorant thugs. The sort of people who have a peanut for brains and whose sartorial elegance comprises a shiney tracksuit of sorts with a hood. Sports jersey or stripey jumper optional.
These little anti-social fuckers would put a match to anything. We have them in the south and they are plentiful throughout the UK. Part of the social ills that plague urban living today. That it was an Orange Hall mattered to them as well, but they would have still found something to torch had it not been so, and the case would probably have not been reported.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:03 PMSome good points made by the quizmaster too.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:06 PMSean,
“Harry not being an Irishman far be it for me to answer you but the orange bit on the Irish flag in no way celebrates the oo.”
Yes Sean, you would know.
Tell you what Sean, the next time I need a lecture on what the the maple leaf signifies in the canadian national flag I’ll ask you, until then I can do witout some no-nothing Clampett from Manitoba lecturing me.
“The oo should be a proscribed organisation just as it was in much of its early history.”
Coming from you, a person on another thread who described the IRA as “us” & made a right mug out of himself in the process, that really is a bit rich.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:07 PMBB, bullying neighbours appears to be precisely what is going on here.
I think we are back to confusing those two things I mentioned earlier. The Action and the Organisation. There appears to be a group of people targeting Protestant Halls in minority areas.
Whatever the perception the attackers may have of the value of their action in effect they are targeting a small minority within their midst. Stand to that, or stand against it, it augurs poorly for the future economic development (which depends on high levels of trust) of such areas if it cannot tolerant people who do not conform to local norms.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:10 PMGrĂ©agĂłir O’ FrainclĂn
Yes, of course. Just coincidental that they happen to be burning OO halls up and down the country.
God forbid, that attitudes within their own community might have prompted them to do it. Or even that it is being organised by some branch of republicanism to keep the pressure on the prods.BTW, whatever happened to that SF guy who fell off the roof of an OO hall in Newcastle?
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:12 PMI agree with your earlier comment , Penguin.
A condemnation followed by a “but...” is pretty much worthless as far as I’m concerned.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:17 PMBTW, whatever happened to that SF guy who fell off the roof of an OO hall in Newcastle?
What guy would that be then Penquin (sweep, sweep, quick lift up that carpet...)?
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:19 PMHere’s the thing, any organisation is going to be made up of members who individually are very different to each other but share at least some common interest/belief. The OO is no different, so whilst it easy to paint all orangemen as unrepentant sectarian bigots and protestant supremacists it’s overly simplistic.
I don’t think growing up I ever thought anyone could be a member of the OO for any other reason than to get up the noses of catholics like me. But I now realise that for a lot of the bowler hat brigade it is a genuine celebration of their Ulster Protestant heritage. To them the idea that their organisation could cause people offence is as foreign a concept as the GAA or St Paddy’s day celebrations causing offence seems to me, but clearly some protestants are offended/intimidated by these things.
Personally I don’t think I’ll ever like the OO as an institution but that doesn’t mean I have to characterise all orangemen as scum. If I want to highlight the aspects of orangism I find hurtful or offensive I’d do a lot better by not calling people names, generally an audience is more receptive to your views if you don’t call them a shower of c**ts at the outset.
Also, whether you like or dislike a group is no excuse for burning their property. Or for condoning/not condemning that action.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:36 PMWell said Dev.
“BTW, whatever happened to that SF guy who fell off the roof of an OO hall in Newcastle? “
Did I hear somewhere that he didnt get charged because “he wasnt doing any harm”!!!
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:43 PMWhen was the last arson attack on a Salvation Army hall in Ulster?
If the answer is “Sally Anny halls aren’t attacked”, it suggests to me that this particular Protestant organization has done nothing to invite protest.
Unlike the OO. That’s not to say the burnings are justified. Simply that the root causes of the bitterness against the OO aren’t too difficult to find.
As barneyben suggested earlier, carrying a charity bucket on an unwelcome march doesn’t quite cut the mustard.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:44 PMDev
You strike me as far too broadminded and sensible for this discussion. Excellent post.Dawkins
You’re just another variation on “they deserve it”.Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 05:50 PMThe Penguin,
You’re just another variation on “they deserve it”.
I disagree. Take another look at Quizmaster’s list of hypothetical questions to be posed to the OO. The Salvation Army would have no difficulty in demonstrating its excellent credentials as a Protestant Christian charitable organization. This is the difference.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:12 PMIts a disgrace to say that the organization are burning their own premises.
Any information that people have, they should take it to the PSNI.
These attacks must STOP!!!
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:23 PMDisgraceful, appalling stuff. I hope the local lodge are able to rebuild and I hope they get fulsome support from all the good people of Cootehill, whom I’d say will be aghast that this has happened.
I have to say, this would seem like an ideal opportunity for the Irish government / Cavan County Council to show strong backing - political and financial - for this isolated minority. I also hope An Garda Siochana track down the perpetrators and bring them before the courts.
This is an opportunity for the Irish state to show Orangemen that it is a friend, and that it will protect them. I hope the state rises to the challenge.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:27 PMOrangeman
“Its a disgrace to say that the organization are burning their own premises.”
I agree. That was a cheap shot, coming from someone with their head in the sand.
“Any information that people have, they should take it to the PSNI.”
- or indeed An Garda Siochana.
“These attacks must STOP!!!”
They must.
I’m very proud to be an Irish republican and I could write a book on everything I dislike about the Orange Order, but in this case I stand four-square with the Orangemen. The rights of Orangemen must be protected, same as everyone elses.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:30 PMDawkins
The real question is this: in the middle of a sustained campaign of attacks on OO halls, why do you and Quizmaster chose to concentrate on attacking the OO?
In far differenet contexts, I have often posted my own views on the OO on Slugger, so they should be well enough known.
But I wouldn’t dream of doing so now.
For, at the very minimum, my views would be construed, rightly, as a less than unambiguous condemnation of the campaign of arson on my part.At worst, as lending some kind of spurious justification to it.
There are many organisations I heartily dislike, but if they are a legal group and their property is being attacked, I will stand up to condemn the attacks without equivocation.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:36 PMBilly Pilgrim
You are a welcome reminder of what an Irish republican should be, and is supposed to be. There is hope for us yet.
Well done.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:40 PMI don’t suspect any widespread conspiracy because I believe there are too many decent people out there.
Remember lib, that by their nature conspiracies don’t need to be widespread to do damage. How many people does it take to burn a few Orange Halls every month? Half a dozen maybe? And if the half a dozen people to their work carefully, it doesn’t really matter how many decent people there are.
And as enough comments up the thread show, there are many Republicans less principled than you as far as attacking the Orange Order goes. There are plenty of apologists around here who wouldn’t be passing on too much information to their friendly local PSNI officer.
Dev/Billy P - well said.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:41 PMThe Penguin,
If anything, you’re the one who’s attacking.
Read my first post and Quizmaster’s again, this part in particular:
“4. If a march is something that one dearly cherishes, would a Christian march with Gospel texts, terminating in an Evangelistic Service, not be more effective and beneficial in turning our unsaved Protestant and Catholic neighbours to Christ?”
Now apply that to the Sally Anny. See what I mean now?
The Salvation Army doesn’t make a nuisance of itself each and every year. The OO does, hence the need for a Parades Commission.
If and when the Sally Anny’s brass-band music gets up people’s noses to the extent that we need a Recitals Commission, then please get back to me on this.
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:47 PMThe Salvation Army would have no difficulty in demonstrating its excellent credentials as a Protestant Christian charitable organization. This is the difference..
No it isn’t, at least not in this case.
Look at the areas where the majority of the halls are being attacked.
Look at the large increase in attacks this year.
The OO has suddenly become worse this year do you think, more objectionable?
The Orange halls in those areas where protestants are a small minority cause more offence?A message to the local protestant community can be passed just as well by burning down the orange hall as it can be by attacking their churches but with the former case people like you will say “Yes, but...” that’s the difference.
Billy Pilgrim
Your 7.30pm is the kind of comment we see all too rarely on here, thanks.Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:56 PMNo matter what. The person or people who burn any buildings are in reality are serious problem to every body. Arsonists have no place in society
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 06:56 PMHey Slugger Admin
How come you are bollocking me for taking the piss about another post that I hope was taking the piss but you let a clear ad homynem attack against me stand
Wouldnt be because I disagree with you would it?
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 07:12 PMSorry Sean, that was me. I asked a question, that’s all. Why so touchy?
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 07:18 PMWhy the increase this year?
Would seem obvious to me, the complete lack of control in these previously tightly controlled areas
No army to shoot you in the back to worry about
PSNI Police Service Not Included
And the legendary IRA stranglehold gone
these little anti-social twerps are just begining to push out their boundaries and for the first time in their lives no bodies pushing them back in.
But like all gormless little fuckers they will start with the easy targets
Unoccupied buildings of the others
Robbing pensioners
Stabbing wee boys out for sweets
Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 07:18 PMMick
they can ad hominem me all they want but surely I get to return the favour?Posted by on Nov 01, 2007 @ 07:23 PM
