Friday, November 21, 2008
On the Irish Republic’s thin grasp of Irish geography…
“When I was at school...” was always a presage to my mother telling me some obvious truth about the spellings or the sums I’d just got wrong for the millionth time… Later when we did geography at school we learned our Irish geography from a book that had been coincidentally written by a teacher at the local state grammar… Provinces, counties, rivers, mountain ranges, county towns… Now it seems in the last ten to fifteen years the people in the southern state have been slowly excising the mad old uncle from its memory: “The North, as far as Dublin was concerned, was the attic in which the mad old uncle might be allowed to drink himself to death.”: O’Neill links this priceless piece from Squinter:
Squinter called the RTE press office and an interesting conversation ensued, which is probably best understood in its raw and unedited form (preamble excised)…
Squinter: Yes, you see, I was just wondering what exactly RTE means when it bandies the word Ireland about.
RTE: Ireland? Why, we mean Ireland, of course.
Squinter: All of it?
RTE: What do you mean?
Squinter: Well, if you try to access The Panel in Belfast the message says ‘Only available in Ireland’.
RTE: And?
Squinter: Belfast’s in Ireland.
RTE: No it’s not.
Squinter: Well, where is it?
RTE: Britain?
Squinter: No.
RTE: The UK?
Squinter: Well, yes, but it’s also in Ireland.
RTE: How can that be?
Squinter: Because Ireland’s not a country, it’s an island.
RTE: Are you sure?
Squinter: Yes.
RTE: Click. Brrrrrrrr.
Cultural psychosis, it seems, is everywhere these days…
Mick Fealty @ 04:41 PM
Dear Mick,
When, in the name of God, will you take the trouble to present a headline which reflects the content of your “piece”. The geographically challenged party described above is the bould Mr Squinter. So why substitute him with Ireland in the Banner?
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 05:22 PMIt never, never ceases to amaze me how the bold Squinter repeatedly strolls into the politcal and cultural propellers. Without fail. Time after time. Since 1937 the official name of the state to our hindquarters has been ‘Ireland’ or ‘Eire’ in Irish. The designation ‘Republic of Ireland’ is simply the ‘description of the state’ appended when Ireland withdrew from the Commonwealth. Check out all the little name tags in front of Irish delegates at international institutions like the UN and EU- ‘Ireland’ nothing else. I would guess that old Squinter would like to unite with this state, but politeness, and some grasp of Irish history and sovereignty, should prompt him to get the name right. Although given the Squinting one has felt the wrath of Big Bearded Brother, perhaps he should just refer to the place as Andytown Airstrip Two.
Meanwhile Montrose chuckles at the hick nordies. Nice one, Squinter!
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:23 PMIt has annoyed me too, especially when trying to get the stream of international matches only to discover RTE tell me I don’t live in Ireland.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:40 PMEP,
I think you’re stretching way beyond your own comfort zone to find a legitimate criticism there…
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:44 PMEh sorry lads. Ye are not in “Ireland”. The decider is the RTE licence fee. If ye don’t pay it, then no deal. Sorry lads.
When you start paying though, you can call yourselves Irish.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:51 PMbtw: if anyone can explain to me how I set a proxy IP (I have no idea what this means but supposedly it could work
) to convince RTE that my Antrim based PC is in Ireland and allow me to stream soccer I’ll owe you several pints.Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:52 PMGavin,
“Ye are not in “Ireland”. The decider is the RTE licence fee.”
That’s a classic.
The problem is a bad choice of words by RTE. Myself and Squinter are both in Ireland - Squinter even recognises his bit of Ireland is part of the UK. The problem is not every definition of Ireland excludes 6 counties.
If they can’t stream to the north of Ireland for whatever reason, they should say it is due to the request coming from outside the coverage of the RTE licence fee. Dead easy. No one gets even more annoyed when they find they can’t get the programme they were desperate to see.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 06:56 PMAh Mark, you took the bait :-)
I take it you get equally annoyed when BBC iPlayer works perfectly?
Sorry I’m just stirring it :-)
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:30 PMWhy so exercised?
In years to come it may be that the Scots, whilst still living on the island of Britain and therefore British, will surely firstly describe themselves as Scottish.
Descriptions of political identity and geography do not always sit comfortably with those people whose radar is finely tuned to seek out opportunities to be offended.
A political entity can call itself whatever it chooses. Hence Ireland can quite properly call itself such whilst missing parts of the geographic reality of the island.
The Mr McCawber political rule may be applied. Politically Irish and geographically Irish; result happiness. Geographically Irish and politically not-Irish; result unhappiness (perhaps).
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:37 PMYer not missing much. The sooner theres a dedicated GAA channel only the better. I’ll never have to put with those West Brit D4 clowns on me telly again.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:51 PMCheck out, RTE live
Ireland = 32 counties
ROI = 26 counties
Perhaps Squinter was speaking to someone as intelligent as himself ...
Mark, if you have a friend in the ROI perhaps they would send you a copy of the smil text file and you could bung it into the Real Player stand-a-lone. Might be worth a try.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:56 PMbtw: if anyone can explain to me how I set a proxy IP (I have no idea what this means but supposedly it could work
) to convince RTE that my Antrim based PC is in Ireland and allow me to stream soccer I’ll owe you several pints.Try http://www.myp2p.eu for all your streaming needs
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:58 PMBunreacht na hEireann - Article 2
The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.
RTE are talking out of their backsides.
The Irish language content of their website is also rubbish. Sometimes the news on it is 3 days out of date.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:00 PMNevin,
I don’t know what that means and I doubt any of my friends living in the occupied 26 counties would either. Can you explain a ‘smil text file’
Dec,
Thanks. If that works you should prepare a paypal account to accept pints.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:02 PMPicador,
Not according to An tAcht um an Naoú Leasú Déag ar an mBunreacht, 1998…
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:12 PMHere are the steps, Mark
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:13 PMNev,
It says on the link that it no longer works. Thanks anyhow.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:16 PMOne system (blackdog?)doesn’t work but it might be worth trying the ROI route, Mark.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:29 PMMick,
Fair point. As long as they give me a passport!
First part of the reworded Article 2 says:
It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.They have got rid of any explicit mention of “national territory”. The amended constitution certainly does not say that Ireland consists of 26 counties so the petty-minded bureaucrats in RTE who came up with this one are a bunch of cretins IMHO.
I lost my passport in Mexico a couple of years ago and had to go to the Irish embassy to get a replacement. The little mammy who greeted me asked in a condescending tone whether I was sure that my lost passport was Irish and not British.
‘Well if had been a British passport I’d lost I would now be standing in the British embassy, wouldn’t I?’ was the best I could muster.Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:50 PM… but seriously, folks!
My in-box has just been hit with a major, 1300-word, survey by the Economist Intelligence Unit: The tiger tamed: Ireland’s economy faces three years of declining output [It may be necessary to sign up].
The essential analysis is:
Ireland’s economy is moving more deeply into recession, and recent data point to a widening of the slump. Retail sales figures have shown a deteriorating trend since the start of 2008, with sales volumes declining by 0.2% in the first quarter, by 4.5% in the second and by 5.7% in the third—data for August and September were the weakest in 25 years. Unsurprisingly, housing-related retail subsectors have been worst hit. In the year to August, sales volumes in the furniture and lighting category were down by 20%, while those of hardware, paint and glass were down by 14.2%. The most recent month for which comparable EU-wide retail sales data are available is July, when Ireland’s decline of 5% compared with an average fall of 0.5% across the EU and of 1.8% across the euro area.
A wide range of factors have contributed to the weakening of consumer sentiment and activity, but a sharp downturn in the labour market is chief among them. The most recent definitive labour market data relate to the March-May 2008 period, when the rate of year-on-year employment growth had fallen to 0.3%. A less comprehensive, but more timely, indicator of labour market conditions is provided by the Central Statistics Office’s monthly Live Register release, which measures the number of people claiming employment-related benefits. In October 2008 there were 260,300 claimants on a seasonally adjusted basis, up by a mammoth 57.1% on a year earlier and by 6.5% on the previous month (the largest ever monthly jump in claimant numbers).
While the increase in claimants is largely male (70%), suggesting that most job losses are still occurring in the male-dominated construction sector, the addition of 4,800 women to the claimant register in October was the largest such increase so far this year—pointing to mounting job losses elsewhere, and particularly in the services sector. The Live Register also provides a measure of the unemployment rate, which has risen sharply during 2008 from 4.8% in January to 6.7% in October. These figures compare with the most recent official unemployment rate of 5.1% recorded for the March-May period.
From there the EIU predicts real GDP will fall 2.5% this year, 2.3% in 2009 and 0.5% in 2010. Exports will fall as the EU zone contracts (and may even turn negative).
Beyond that we see the real reason for the vicious cut-backs in the last budget:
A fiscal surplus of 3% of GDP in 2006 has turned into an estimated deficit of 6.5% of GDP in 2008, which on a comparative basis is by far the most rapid two-year decline of any euro area country since the single currency was launched. Ireland is now set to breach the EU’s general budget deficit ceiling (3% of GDP) by an even wider margin in 2009, when we expect a deficit of 8.9%.
The Irish Government borrowing is the most expensive in the Eurozone, excepting only Greece. Furthermore:
In early November the European Commission launched the excessive-deficit procedure against Ireland for its breaches of the Stability and Growth Pact (SGP) governing euro area members. It has previously found the management of Ireland’s public finances to be the weakest of some 18 EU member states and is thus likely to be critical when it reports to the Council of Ministers in February 2009. Given this and the magnitude of the deficits (the largest imbalance in the history of the bloc thus far was 7.8% of GDP in Greece in 2004), Ireland may become the first country to be threatened with the imposition of fines, as set out in the SGP.
And all of that comes with the EIU caution: if it becomes necessary to recapitalise the Irish banking system (see several recent articles),
our current forecast of three successive years of economic contraction could yet prove optimistic.
On past experience, I will not be traduced for salaciously peddling West British propagandist bad tidings. Hey, I’m only the messenger, chaps.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:53 PMsuper thread
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 09:17 PMMark,
to convince RTE that my Antrim based PC is in Ireland and allow me to stream soccer I’ll owe you several pints.
Bypass RTE and give these lot a shout on international nights. It’ll cost you three or four euros, but the coverage is pretty good and they won’t even ask you to prove your Irishness.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 09:56 PMAlong the same lines is the use of the term ‘Irish government’ for an administration which only has control over 13/16 of Ireland.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 10:11 PMEl Matador on Nov 21, 2008 @ 10:11 PM:
Fair enough: perhaps you would, once again, guide us through the political semantics and propose a single acceptable alternative for our common intercourse. Then hope to get out alive.
Don’t forget you need to address everything from the politics to the national sporting team, and come up with an all-embracing term. Which is why most of us use shorthands and jokey references. Curiously enough, that way we seem to achieve a modicum of communication.
Posted by on Nov 21, 2008 @ 10:30 PM“I lost my passport in Mexico a couple of years ago and had to go to the Irish embassy to get a replacement. “
The Irish Embassy in Mexico, phoned me up, about Colombia,
eejit that I am, I asked somebody to visit somebody else in jail.
That was before Ruane went over, to that part of the world.
It was before SF had owned up to knowing them.
Posted by on Nov 22, 2008 @ 12:18 AM
