Monday, August 25, 2008
Northern Ireland and anthems
Last Friday, the News letter front page was taken up with UUP MLA Basil McCrea’s suggestion that the IFA should consider developing a unique Northern Ireland anthem at international games. The DUP, predictably, came out shooting from the hip. The problem with their reaction, is that it was typically arrogant, assuming that as the DUP have a view on a matter, that must surely be the view of all right thinking Protestants of Ulster. They’re the all consuming DUP after all, all other views are neo-Lundy nonsense! Problem is, they don’t speak for Northern Ireland football fans, even if they claim they do.
Today’s Newsletter carries several comments from the Our Wee Country forum (a forum I haven’t been able to get into all weekend). Some of the comments are below the fold. Notable is the NL’s overview “The overwhelming feeling expressed in more than 90 messages posted about the topic was that finding a Northern Ireland anthem could benefit the team. “
“I heard Poots spouting some (rubbish) about how Northern Ireland fans wouldn’t stand for a change — how dare he speak for all fans? Why not ask them first?”
“As for Poots, a very arrogant response really.”
“For those who think it will diminish their ‘Britishness’ watch how hard Sinn Fein fight against this and ask yourselves why,”
“Mr Poots is more and more increasingly out of touch with grassroots unionism...I resent the fact that he would label anyone that disagrees with him as a lesser unionist.”
“Me being proud of being Northern Irish and wanting us to use a Northern Irish anthem doesn’t make me any less British than you, or devalue my unionism. And not all Northern Ireland fans are unionists anyway, you fool.“
“Poots’ reaction was totally predictable. Its just a stupid ‘I’m more British than you’ points scoring exercise.”
“It’s a small step in raising this important issue and it deserves discussion at all levels, no matter the outcome.”
“Good on you Basil. DUP/Sinn Fein axis not in favour — what a surprise.”
“This would be a very positive step in my eyes. The one and only chant I hate hearing at Windsor is the old ‘no surrender’ as it offends many of our own players. I am pro-union but that is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with supporting all 11 players wearing our green shirt.”
Michael Shilliday @ 11:59 AM
Can’t see anything wrong with an individual national anthem for N.Ireland. If it’s good enough for the Scots and the Welsh it should be good enough for us. As long as it’s not Danny Boy (Londonderry Air), because the Irish have stole that one already, like they do with everything we create.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:10 PMPoots is quickly going to learn that not all Unionists (no less Unionist than Poots, I may add)are as insecure in their Britishness as he is.
He’s also going to learn that many Northern Ireland fans seek to strengthen their Northern Irish identity.
The debate isn’t going away - it’s how it’s managed that is the important thing.
People like Poots need to understand that change is not about appeasement.
Poots would have more respect if he called upon those Northern Ireland fans who continue to disrespect the UK National Anthem at Northern Ireland games to cease doing so.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:21 PMFor me, in keeping with the spirit of Parity of Esteem, I think the theme tune from 1970s sit-com Different Strokes would be ideal.
Now, the world don’t move to the beat of just one (lambeg) drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he’s a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.But they got, Diff’rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.Everybody’s got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shine,
It don’t matter that you got not alot
So what,
They’ll have theirs, and you’ll have yours, and I’ll have mine.
And together we’ll be fine....Because it takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.
Yes it does.
It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:21 PMumh,
er, the irish? like those irish who support the IRISH football association, used to read IRELAND on saturday night, live in northern IRELAND, with the waves of the IRISH sea lapping against them, on an island called IRELAND, some of them doubtless members of the church of IRELAND, or the presbyterian church in IRELAND, or perhaps the grand orange lodge of IRELAND, and also those who live in the ancient IRISH province of ulster…
is you on holiday, umh?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:31 PMW.F. Marshall’s poem should be made into the N.Ireland anthem.
Hi! Uncle Sam!
When freedom was denied you,
And Imperial might defied you,
Who was it stood beside you
At Quebec and Brandywine?
And dared retreats and dangers,
Red-coats and Hessian strangers,
In the lean, long-rifled Rangers,
And the Pennsylvania Line!
Hi! Uncle Sam!
Wherever there was fighting,
Or wrong that needed righting,
An Ulsterman was sighting
His Kentucky gun with care:
All the road to Yorktown,
From Valley Forge to Yorktown,
That Ulsterman was there!Hi! Uncle Sam!
Virginia sent her brave men,
The North paraded grave men,
That they might not be slavemen,
But ponder with this calm:
The first to face the Tory
And the first to lift Old Glory
Made your war and Ulster story:
Think it over, Uncle Sam!Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:44 PMwho or what organisation has the power to actually change the anthem? surely there must be someone out there who knows that it would be them to do the paper work and make the decisions. can we identify this person and then direct requests/ideas to them?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:45 PMbecause the Irish have stole that one already, like they do with everything we create.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:45 PMor what about “To America”, by Deirdre Speer
Remember me.
My sculptured glens where crystal rivers run,
My purple mountains misty in the sun,
My coastlines little changed since time begun.
I gave you birth.I watched you go.
You saw me fade into the distant sky,
You sailed away from me with tear-filled eye,
You said you’d ne’er forget though years passed,
But time rolled on.Your young land grew,
And new sons fought to keep their country fair,
And at the Alamo and Shiloh they were there,
And with pride they filled the Presidential chair,
My Ulstermen.Remember me.
Though battle-scarred and weary I abide,
Though Americans their heritage denied,
When you speak of history say my name with pride.
I AM ULSTER.Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:47 PMI don’t mind what tune is picked as long as David Healy can play it easily on his flute.
A good marching tune might be nice to allow the orange sash-wearing IFA President to stride along to.
Interesting that the NI fans had a banner at the game last week thanking ‘Sir David’ for expressing his culture-nice that.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 12:59 PMdon’t know the author, but it’s a good contender.
Raise thy banner, Sons of Ulster
‘neath its shadow we will stand
As we call to God in heaven
For his blessing on our land.And our God enthroned in glory
He will hear our earnest cries
And the ancient land of Ulster
Shall with new born strength arise.Raise thy banner, Sons of Ulster
Pledge again thy heart and hand
To be ever true and loyal
In the service of our landSoon will come the dawn of morning
Soon will end the night of pain
And the ancient land of Ulster
Be a nation once again.Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:00 PM“who or what organisation has the power to actually change the anthem?”
eranu,
The Irish Football Association.
They are aware of the issue, and have been for quite some time.
I think it’s safe to say, until recently, they have sat on their hands on this one.
I do not envisage change without a majority consensus for change amongst the Northern Ireland fanbase.
The fanbase is very much split on the issue.
How that grown up, adult, debate is conducted is crucial.
The biggest barrier to change is that many feel it is an attempt to appease those who seek the destruction of the Northern Ireland team - nothing could be further from the truth.
In short, there is a need for “internal” discussion, detailing the pros/cons of both sides of the debate, leaving all fully aware of the consequences of both maintaining the status quo, and change towards a Northern Irish specific “sporting” anthem for the Northern Ireland team.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:03 PMUMH , There is a touch of a battlecry for an Independant Republican America in those songs, nothing there about being loyal to the crown of England!
1775!
1789!
1798!
Who fears to speak?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:05 PM”nothing there about being loyal to the crown of England! ”
and why are you moaning?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:08 PM“And the ancient land of Ulster
Be a nation once again.”BTW UMH,..... When was Ulster a nation?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:09 PM”nothing there about being loyal to the crown of England! ”
and why are you moaning?
UMH....I am not moaning, I find you contradictory!
You are plugging an American rebel song tinged with independant republican ideals!
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:12 PMnorthern Ireland is not a nation therefore rather silly to have a ‘national’ anthem.
You can sing God Save the Queen all you like, it just makes you look foolish.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:13 PM“BTW UMH,..... When was Ulster a nation?”
before the Irish Gaels invaded in the 3rd century AD
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:14 PM”UMH....I am not moaning, I find you contradictory!
You are plugging an American rebel song tinged with independant republican ideals!”
LOL, It’s not an American rebel song. It may describe a period in time when God fearing Ulstermen fought against a Monarch who denied them their right to worship God how and when they pleased.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:23 PM”northern Ireland is not a nation therefore rather silly to have a ‘national’ anthem.”
Tell that to the Scots, Welsh or the English?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:25 PM“before the Irish Gaels invaded in the 3rd century AD”
ha ha ...absolute nonsense!
The politics of today superimposed on the ancient history of this island. A history manipulated to somehow justify a certain peoples authority!
As if there is’nt Cruithin/Pictish blood in me, or the Catholic Nationalist folk of Ireland or indeed Gerry or Martin and the rest.Read ‘Blood of the Isles’ by Bill Sykes.
There was a C4 documentary made and shown last year about it.‘The Atlantean Irish’ by Bob Quinn.
It will dispel those contrived myths you were fed
which explains your continuous contradictions!Maybe you are very young!
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:33 PMThe Booing of GSTQ at Hampden by the Scottish support seems to have been a shock to the loyalist system. I wonder why Lord Laird hasn’t started to rant about how sectarian the Scots are for doing it. i imagine he would have if it had been Irish fans doing the booing. i can appreciate that a proportion of NI fans want to develop the football team to be more inclusive, but a proportion don’t and simply want it to continue as a loyalist team. even if the anthem is changed i can’t see attending/supporting NI as being that much more appealing to nationalists than it is now. Fair play for trying though. it gives hope there might actually be some reconcillation between people in NI in the future.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:38 PM”Read ‘Blood of the Isles’ by Bill Sykes.
There was a C4 documentary made and shown last year about it.”and what has that got to do with Ulster never being a Nation?
”‘The Atlantean Irish’ by Bob Quinn.”
It will dispel those contrived myths you were fed
Name something Bob Quinn says which states Ulster was never a nation or could ever have been one?
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:45 PMrealist, i thought it would be the IFA but i wasnt sure if there would be some legal angle requiring some stormont legislation. if no politicians are involved then there is a good chance something can be done fairly quickly, a decent song could be selected, and we would end up with something all sane people in NI would identify with. i say all because it wouldnt be about anything british or anything all ireland irish, it would be something northern irish.
for some unionists there seems to be an issue with not singing GSTQ. they dont seem to realise that when the home nations do their own thing in sport that its not actually a british thing, its a scottish, english, welsh and northern irish thing. i think people need to have a word with themselves in the corner if they cant see this.
as far as i can tell the vast majority of people would like an NI song/anthem. i think the reason is that its more specifically us than the wider UK anthem.i dont really think there are any cons. ofcourse we know what the 2 extremes will say. the shinners will be running around panicking that their well groomed/brain washed catholic voters might actually start to like NI and the NI football team. the extreme dupers will be shrieking that they’ve been sold out and are having their british identity eroded by some evil plot and are about to be forced into a UI any second…
to me its just an outstanding little detail to be corrected. the other home nations have their own unofficial anthem/song for sporting events. NI doesnt, so it defaults to the national anthem. to me this is just laziness on the part of, it looks like, the IFA. another example of ‘cant do’ people in positions of authority in NI.Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:46 PM“i thought it would be the IFA but i wasnt sure if there would be some legal angle requiring some stormont legislation”
eranu,
No legislation required - just a decision from the Irish Football Association.
You do have to wonder about the intelligence of the DUP’s Jim Shannon on the issue.
He said:
“We have our own national anthem, and it’s God Save the Queen.”
No Jim - the point is that some of us want our own “sporting” anthem to represent the Northern Ireland team.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 01:55 PM“and what has that got to do with Ulster never being a Nation?”
“Name something Bob Quinn says which states Ulster was never a nation or could ever have been one?”
UMH, I think you’ve reached information overload!
But how about you name something that proves that Ulster was once a “nation”. Unionist folk deny the Irish nation but yet have fostered this modern mythical notion of an Ulster ‘nation’. Drumlins and ringforts don’t prove anything, neither does the Black Pig’s Dykes, for such landscape features can be found throughout Ireland and indeed Britain and Europe and Africa, etc.... etc....
All people in Ulster and indeed Ireland today are the descendants and inheritors of this Ulster ‘nation’, not just one particular folk!
For the blood and genes of those ancestors are in all our blood today!
Posted by on Aug 25, 2008 @ 02:06 PM
