Friday, February 09, 2007
Northern Ireland: world capital for bigotry…
Picked this up from TCAL. It’s originally drawn from a University of Ulster paper, but they got it from the Belfast Telegraph originally.
The acid test of the study relates to a single question. “Would you like to have persons from this group as your neighbours?” They were given just five possible answers: people from another race, immigrants or foreign workers, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals. In the end (by these indices at least), Northern Ireland’s ultra conservative society beats Greece (by one percentage point) to become ‘Bigot Capital of the World’.
Interestingly the major ‘victims’ are gay (over 80% of bigoted persons in Northern Ireland and Canada and 75% of bigots in Austria, the USA, Great Britain, Ireland and Italy would not want homosexuals as neighbours). This from Pink News:
Not only does the province have the highest proportion of bigots, but the bigots are on average more bigoted than those in other countries. The main target of Northern Irish prejudice is the gay community, with over a third of respondents saying they did not want gay neighbours.
Interestingly Scandinavia headed the list for bigotry against Muslims:
The exceptions to this were the Scandinavian countries in which the main target of bigotry was Muslims: 74% of bigoted Danes, 68% of bigoted Swedes and 63% of bigoted Icelanders did not want Muslims as neighbours. The corresponding proportions for homosexuals in these countries were, respectively 37%, 44% and 43%.
Mick Fealty @ 11:40 AM
Hi Devil
We love reading your posts on Slug it really makes the day (at times sometimes you can be to harsh on people especially harmless middle class middle of the road types)
What we would like to know is are you Newton Emerson
My wife and brother-in-law think you are and I disagree so to save a family feud developing would you please giv’us an answer to the question.For reasons best withheld I can’t ask with my Slugger alias
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 08:05 PMAs its a b1got thread, a joke, not very good:
What’s a bigot’s favourite film?
The ProdfatherBigot on a bridge wins poll for funniest religious joke
How about making some money on bigot memorabilia; have a shop call it “Bigots R US”, like the toy shop “Toys R US”. Tourists would love it.
When someone says to me, why do you want to visit norn iron. I reply “well that’s where the bigots are?”
Better go see em, as they might become an endangered species ;)
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 08:25 PMDC
1. You can make the argument but it is an invalid premise if you are attempting to persuade me to your thinking.
2. Call it whatever names you wish trite naive etc. There hasn’t been, isn’t nor will be an agreed history and bringing it into the political debate offers neither any advantages. ‘One’ history is a false concept anyway. It is a cul-de-sac in terms of political debate. Others insist in going down it but I don’t see the point.
3. The answer does indeed often lie somehwere in the middle though not always.Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 08:28 PMDid the survey include Iraq?
Sunni’s and shite’s currently at each others throats would seem more likely to be a contender for this dubious title.
Kosovo, Serbs and Croats is another flashpoint.
Christians in Turkey?
To label N Ireland is a cheap shot imho.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 08:34 PMFD: “You can make the argument but it is an invalid premise if you are attempting to persuade me to your thinking. “
For your thesis to be true, it would have to assume that, absent all fo the events of history, NI would end up exactly where it is today. And that arguement is a non-starter.
FD: “Call it whatever names you wish trite naive etc. There hasn’t been, isn’t nor will be an agreed history and bringing it into the political debate offers neither any advantages. ‘One’ history is a false concept anyway. It is a cul-de-sac in terms of political debate. Others insist in going down it but I don’t see the point. “
No sensible Unionist would and for obvious reasons.
I do argue, however, that this is not properly a political debate. This is more of a cultural matter. That means the stakes are, arguably, much smaller, so of course the fighting is that much uglier.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 09:12 PMDC
I am not denying history has happened or that the present day is its result nor I am refusing to engage in it as I think I am on a sticky wicket. I just don’t believe it has any significant value to the political debate.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 09:58 PMRE: IS “THE DEVIL” NEWTON EMERSON
I must say I hadn’t thought of it myself but going through NE’s internet work there does appear to be a distinct similarity of style.
NE is a lifelong Atheist, which turns out to be a kind of Protestant. There is a similar religion for Catholics, which is called Anti-Clericalism.
NE’s gripe against religion is based on his belief that he would have got his leg over a lot more times in the absence of this false philosophy. This is unfair. Jesus was, by the standards of his place and times, distinctly on the liberal side. Maybe not lap dancing, but certainly erotic foot massages.
Religion has embraced the no-nookey philosophy because it is used as a form of social control. Atheist Communist China was exactly the same, you weren’t allowed to marry until your late 20s, certainly no chance of having it away. So the real objection is to social control, not religion.
“The Devil” judging by the above piece has similar views on the centrality of sex to the pursuit of happiness. But I recall him saying how unbelievable rude he found Ulster people, which suggests a recent immigrant, which NE is not. But then we all know the devil is the father of lies.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 10:38 PMI’m going to risk playing Devil’s Advocate here.
Because - is it actually true that NI people are the most racist/bigoted etc? Or is it more the case:
a) that NI people are more open about it (and indeed we live in a society where people are rewarded for being so); and/or
b) that NI people are more extreme - some are very anti-immigrant/anti-gay/racist; but some are prepared to go out of their way, well beyond the call of duty and well beyond what is the case elsewhere, to assist newcomers and/or those of different races?The correlation between a social and political system which encourages us to oppose people who are different from us for personal, electoral or even financial gain and being the most bigoted society in the Western World should not be lost, of course.
But I’m going to stick my neck out and suggest that we in NI, many of whose residents after all have experience themselves of being the unwelcome outsider elsewhere, are bad, but maybe not that bad, comparatively. I’m also going to suggest that societies like England, while successful in this area in many ways, have become rather better at shielding racism through political correctness, than actually dealing with the core elements of it - “Shilpagate” may have illustrated that.
All thoughts from a Devil’s Advocate point of view, you understand, but sensible comments welcome.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 12:44 AMMore pointless navel gazing.
Why are people asking the angry natives what they think about foreigners?
Why don’t they ask the foreigners what they think about the angry natives?
If you really want to settle the “themuns and usuns” debate, why not ask the Chinese, for example, what they think about Dublin and Belfast?
But remember, the comfort blanket of The Troubles as a panacea for all ills is gone.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 07:03 AMMuch as I’d like to claim the credit for much of The Devil’s work, I’m afraid that it’s not me.
I suspect he’ll be horrified by the very suggestion.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 01:24 PMWatch yourself Newt. There’s a “distinct similarity in style” between the ‘Are You or Aren’t You’ question and a certain newspaper’s alleged letters page ("Squinter really makes my day!")
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 02:09 PMNo calm down guys. I ‘know’ Newt, and I ‘know’ the Devil. And they are two different people.
The speculation may be fun, even if it is completely off the mark. But it could also be mischievous fun and, possibly, an attempt to create story elsewhere!
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 03:20 PMSeems to me you leftwing imbecile Irish need to tone it down there…
Last Time I looked many Muslims are nasty critters who are true Islamists which make them virtually incompatible with every other people in the world, and to a certain extent themselves…
As far as the queers go....apparently you haven’t heard the Muslims own that too, and last time I looked Sodom did exist, its ruins are visible(as well as the other cities, and anuses are exits not entrances…
But hey, I’m just a nutjob Right-Wing American Catholic Authoritarian Contra....what do I know?
Posted by on Feb 10, 2007 @ 10:13 PMSpirit of Bill Oliver: I love the way you open your post with “you leftwing imbecile Irish need to tone it down”. You Yanks really DON’T understand irony, do you?
Posted by on Feb 11, 2007 @ 11:02 PMStill a World beater at something.
Posted by on Feb 12, 2007 @ 09:18 AM
