Friday, February 09, 2007
Northern Ireland: world capital for bigotry…
Picked this up from TCAL. It’s originally drawn from a University of Ulster paper, but they got it from the Belfast Telegraph originally.
The acid test of the study relates to a single question. “Would you like to have persons from this group as your neighbours?” They were given just five possible answers: people from another race, immigrants or foreign workers, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals. In the end (by these indices at least), Northern Ireland’s ultra conservative society beats Greece (by one percentage point) to become ‘Bigot Capital of the World’.
Interestingly the major ‘victims’ are gay (over 80% of bigoted persons in Northern Ireland and Canada and 75% of bigots in Austria, the USA, Great Britain, Ireland and Italy would not want homosexuals as neighbours). This from Pink News:
Not only does the province have the highest proportion of bigots, but the bigots are on average more bigoted than those in other countries. The main target of Northern Irish prejudice is the gay community, with over a third of respondents saying they did not want gay neighbours.
Interestingly Scandinavia headed the list for bigotry against Muslims:
The exceptions to this were the Scandinavian countries in which the main target of bigotry was Muslims: 74% of bigoted Danes, 68% of bigoted Swedes and 63% of bigoted Icelanders did not want Muslims as neighbours. The corresponding proportions for homosexuals in these countries were, respectively 37%, 44% and 43%.
Mick Fealty @ 12:40 PM
For the Belfast Telegraph? Afraid not.
It is a paper in Kyklos.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:16 PMThe University of Queensland deserves a joint credit too.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:19 PMRespectfully, does this really come as a shock to anyone?
I know there are many here who would prefer to stay away from this question, but out of that 44%, what areas/communities do do you think most of that “HATE” comes from?
I know that wasn’t the purpose of the study, but it would have been more clear had they scrutinized where the hate mainly comes from.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:20 PMStill makes me laugh when I think about Trimble’s monocultural blast at the Republic… This survey puts things into perspective.
Anyway, if we all hate each other, what chance do “outsiders” stand ?
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:34 PMSS,
Mind on other things…
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:34 PMHarris,
It misses the even bigger question that we all want to ask which shows just why the north tops the table:
Are Protestants or Catholics more bigoted?
At least we know that northerners are more bigoted than southerners who in turn are more bigoted than the Brtish but what about the taig/hun question?
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:39 PMThis makes for very depressing reading.
Not just N.I. but the other countries too.Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:47 PM“Are Protestants or Catholics more bigoted” There was a report some time ago on this, and the huns were slightly worse than the taigs. There was even a thread here on it which amounted to: “Ha - told you so you orange bastards” and “But foreigers live in our areas so what do you expect fenian scumbag”
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 01:53 PM“The exceptions to this were the Scandinavian countries in which the main target of bigotry was Muslims: 74% of bigoted Danes, 68% of bigoted Swedes and 63% of bigoted Icelanders did not want Muslims as neighbours. The corresponding proportions for homosexuals in these countries were, respectively 37%, 44% and 43%.”
Not all that suprising, if you have been paying attention to their blogs or blogs that intersect on the issue. Malmo, for example, has areas where the Muslims have created “no-go” condition.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:09 PMWhat else would yiz expect ? The State was conceived in bigotry , born sectarian, and has been living with a janus faced themun’s and usum’s politico/socio apartheid mentality from day one and even before the State was established .
We are all the products of our environment to a greater or lesser degree. In the Northern Ireland ‘environment’there are many good self preservation reasons as to why you would’nt want any of ‘themuns ‘as next door neighbours . The fact that ‘themuns’ is now extended beyond the traditional Fenian and Jaffa varieties is neither here nor there .
The fact that Greece is just behind NI should also not be surprising . I recall reading an article that the Greeks of all European emigrants to the USA had the greatest problem with ‘assimilating’ Some 50% of Greeks found it so difficult to divest themselves of their inherent xenophobic tendencies that they actually returned to Greece . The Irish on the other hand were the most assimable with less than 10% returning . Other european emigrant nations were closer to the Irish in this respect than to the Greeks .
It would be an interesting study to see which side of the sectarian divide in NI is the most xenophibic and why.
Some of us may already know the answer to both questions.
The Scandinavian attitude to Muslims is not surprising . There is probably no other region in europe that is less ‘religuous’ in the traditional sense than Scandinavia . It’s difficult for people of such a disposition to take to a people who remain ardently ‘religious ‘ and in many cases fanatically loyal to Islam.
I can’t imagine it would be a whole lot of fun having a fundamentalist bible bashing FP devotee as a neighbour either.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:13 PM“Only Protestants are sectarian”
- as I’ve mentioned before, it’s a wonder that republicans haven’t managed to persuade more people to their cause with this argument.Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:19 PMThere’s a problem with the question:
“Would you like to have persons from this group as your neighbours?”
A negative response to this does not mean that the person would hold a negative view of the “group” in question, an honest neutral person would have to asnwer “No”.
It’d be interesting to see what the responses would be if the question was phrased
“Would you prefer not to have persons from this group as your neighbours?”
I personally wouldn’t “Like” to have persons of any “group” as my neighbours, similarly I wouldn’t “Dislike” to have persons of any “group” as my neighbours… am I one of the bigotted ones?
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:20 PMPeople like that fella who heckled the home secretary must take a lot of the blame. He tells the home secretary reid, how dare you come in to a muslum area?- in Britain? Kill british soldiers and uk government personnel. Dodge air port security dressed as women covered up in frocks, use their places of worship mosques as training factories, blow people up on bussesfor what exactly, because of their religion,
Other groups beg on the streets, have organised gangs begging on the streets, use babies and children to elicit money. target churches and charity shops and pavements in central shopping areas and are not moved on. Put nothing back into the community, refuse to integrate and then allege they are alienated.gives us a break.
ffs is it any wonder this stuff is getting worse. And who is to blame, the general population. why not put the blame where it belongs - on these people themselves.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:21 PMHere we go again, youse uns are worse bigots than us uns.
A lot of the inherent fear of foreigners and people with alternative lifestyles,comes from the conservative atitude of the main churches in Northern Ireland.
For example on these threads people professing to be God fearing Protestants or strict Catholics still refer to Gay people as soddomites.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:25 PMSo its all the fault of the churches? Is it in retalliation for some workers not being allowed to wwear a crucifix to work? and dare anyone say anything against them, for fear of being accused of hate crime.
*rolleyes*
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:28 PMGreenflag
All a bit simplistic to blame this on Partitition - and interestingly I dont know how you marry your first paragraph with your advocation of the justification of repartition ?
ie this is not what you say when calling for the latter.I suppose when trying to understand why NI is up this league table we have to think deeper.
In terms of homosexuality it would likely tally with the higher degree of religious adherence here.
Do we call Christians bigots for stating homosexuality is wrong ? I know this doesnt mean you then say you cant live beside them but some people obviously fail to make the break.In terms of race we also have to consider the ‘sheltered’ status of 40 years.
ie the mass immigration that came to the GB and other European shores didnt venture to NI in the same degree.
Hence ignorance of other races which was highly prevalent in GB in realy seventies remains here.In terms of foreigners the demographic head count is also an issue.
Loyalist areas esepcially are suspicious of most Eastern Europeans because they consider them Catholic.The Catholic Protestant thing here (for most) is not about transubstantiation, the role of Mary and the Saints etc but is about Constitutional politics.
ie you are not born a bigot but you are shaped as one by the environment around you and therefore appreciating that environment and trying to cahnge it is more important than condemning a whole society with a label
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:36 PMJEB: “ie you are not born a bigot but you are shaped as one by the environment around you and therefore appreciating that environment and trying to cahnge it is more important than condemning a whole society with a label “
Which brings us all the way back around, despite all bloviating to the contrary, to partition and its subsequent fallout…
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:40 PMIs this a surprise?
I would think seeing the sterling work of Messers Paisley, Adams and associates in this particular field that it really would be a massive policy failure if our bigotry towards each other wasn’t passed onto immigrants moving here.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:43 PMSo, the next time someone calls me paranoid for commenting on homophobia, I have some evidence to back me up…
Although, before I get too excited, I’d really like to take a little time to have a look at the methodology; for example the question about Muslims apparently wasn’t asked in Australia because it ‘wasn’t relevant’. Really? In a country which has only recently experienced Muslim vs. Christian riots more serious than any in Europe? Also, why wasn’t the question about Jews asked in Switzerland? There’s no anti-semitism in Switzerland? I don’t think so.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:48 PMDisgusting. What a narrow minded little hovel we live in. All this crap from the bigots regarding ‘our’ country blah blah blah. I really dont see how people (and this is not confined to Ireland) can continually refer to ‘our’ countries. We all live on bits of land that have moved, and are moving, around our planet. The land on which we live once was attached to the backside of Africa or Australia or the like. There should be no such thing as the concept of any particular grouping owning a country, particulary where, as human beings, we have been here for such a relatively short period and, as individuals, are here for such a fleeting time. Then again, the bigots and racists would hardly look to such a bigger picture, given that they cant see beyond ‘their’ town/village/area or beyond the last 30/90/800 years.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:51 PMWhich brings us all the way back around, despite all bloviating to the contrary, to partition and its subsequent fallout…
Yeah. That’s right. There was no bigotry in Ireland before partition. No riots at orange marches in the 19th Century. No victimising of Parnell by the Catholic hierarchy.
Hell, there weren’t even any penal laws.
All bigotry is obviously caused by partition. Just like the common cold.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:52 PMRacism is one of Northern Ireland’s least attractive features. 30 years behind the rest of the UK.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:55 PMI think the 44% figure for bigots in Northern Ireland is a little bit disingenuous also. Surely we are around the 95% mark.
On a personal level I absolutely love the fact that people from other cultures and countries are finally making Northern Ireland their home on a much bigger scale. Immigration can only be good for us and inject some sort of dynamism into this drab, hate-filled place. Let’s just hope they bring their politicians with them.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 02:56 PM“I would think seeing the sterling work of Messers Paisley, Adams and associates in this particular field”
In fairness to SF, they are fairly decent on rights from gay people to supporting immigrants. Even Paisley has churches in Africa, so hostility to Islam would be more a religious rather than race thing.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 03:00 PM“to partition and its subsequent fallout…”
Sectarian strife predates partition by centuries.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2007 @ 03:07 PM
