Wednesday, March 28, 2007
Northern Ireland go top: Stan to get reprieve?
Yep, heard the cheering from down below, now it’s all quiet because it’s all over... (till the pubs get out)… They just expect Healy to score and he does... Meanwhile, with a 1-0 against Slovakia, maybe some of the blatantly pernicious salami slicing of Stan will stop…
Mick Fealty @ 08:51 PM
Two Nations,
“Shouting No Surrender at the start of a football game is a very good thing”
No it bloody isn’t. It pisses off the majority of us who have worked fecking hard to ensure that NI matches aren’t seen as some sort of Protestant/loyalist/unionist occasion. You want to show what a big Prod/loyalist/Briton you are? Why not do that at a more suitable occasion, like the Twelfth, or over at Ibrox even if you really must. NI matches are about supporting the NI team. (Though if you want to show how you’re a loyal British citizen, how disrespecting the National Anthem does this is beyond me).
Dave,
“If you take away the National Anthem then you need to remove Northern Ireland flags as well as the Union flag. The team would need to be renamed the ‘Ireland’ “
That’s completely illogical. How on earth would replacing GSTQ with a NI-specific anthem mean that NI flags should be removed and that the team should be renamed Ireland rather than Northern Ireland? Quite the opposite, surely - it would be more distinctively Northern Irish.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 01:09 PMNo Mike because when the anthem is removed the next thing that people will be asking is for the removal of flags. Then people will say they can’t identify with the name Northern Ireland and then they will want all interviews by the manager/players done in Irish and so on and so forth.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 01:26 PMDave,
Sorry but that’s just daft paranoia (and actually fairly laughable). To say that because many NI fans like myself want an NI-specific anthem, we’ll soon have our team renamed Ireland, never mind Lawrie and the players talking away in Irish, is straight our of looney-tune land.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 01:39 PMWell I have heard the calls to remove flags from the game.
In addition to this people say they wont ever accept an Northern Ireland team.
What is wrong with the current National Anthem?
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 01:42 PMMike,
I am in broad agreement with most of what you are saying. My main point was to defend the term ‘No Surrender’ as non-sectarian. I was not trying to be a big Prod. I also do not agree that the chant in anyway disrespects the anthem, it is just a Ulster twist on the British anthem.
Whether it should be used at NI games is a different matter. No Surrender should be a great way of starting a football match (it sums up the NI team’s grit and determination pretty well), but of course it carries a lot of baggage. It is specific to one section of the NI pop. and does out of place in the nuNI. But so the GSTQ.
I have nothing but admiration for what people like you and the rest of the GAWA have done. I believe it will have a profound effect on society at large and will act like a spur to other sports on this island. (If only Irish Rugby was just about the team!)
NI games should be, like you state, all about the team. The GSTQ should be replaced, as well as probably the flag. I do not think the majority of the fan base will disappear. I think you will strengthen the fanbase and create an even more marvellous atomsphere.
What needs to be bourne in mind is that the symbols we are talking about removing have a deep resonance with the average Ulster Prod. So tread carefully in case you do alienate a large swathe of fans. The mistake some people will make is to want to replace these emblems with something that is a turn off to Ulster Prods e.g. replacing GSTQ with Danny Boy (ewww)or the NI flag with the 9 County flag.
My suggestion on the anthem is to contact someone like Gary Lightbody. That dude can write some anthems.
A flag that is completely neutral - green, white and blue.Here’s to a brighter future.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 01:51 PMC’mon Dave, you can’t pretend that you don’t realise that hearing GSTQ before matches is hugely grating, not only for Nationalists but also many others who feel that it expresses absolutely nothing about their Northern Irishness…the English have already made GSTQ their own, the Jocks have ‘Flower of Scotland’ the Taffs have ‘Land of my Father’ so surely the Northern Irish should feel secure enough in their regional identity to sing something that reflects it, ie. ‘Danny Boy’…it would also be a slap in the bake to the diehards on both sides who, for their own petty, stubborn, sectarian reasons, would be much happier if GSTQ remains…
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 02:13 PMDinger,
No no no no no no no.
It would be a slap in the bake to anybody with ears.
Twee maudlin crap.
No Danny Boy, no Phil Coulter.Andy Cairns, Tim Wheeler or Gary Lightbody. Or all three.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 02:17 PMDinger
So we have to listen to some patronising peace song such as ‘Days like this’. The only NI song I sort of like is ‘Alternative Ulster’ but this song could never be used as an Anthem and it more a Nationalist song. I don’t want soem PC violin playing song that represents nothing and only patronises to NI population.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 02:19 PMErrr guess it is a bit twee and maudlin but still prefer it to GSTQ by a feckin mile...guess we’re a bit screwed for an alternative anthem then..’Teenage Kicks’ anyone??
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 02:27 PM“...the elegant IFA celtic cross, virtually unchanged since 1950-aprt from a brief 1977 style disaster”
Its handy against vampires to.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 03:34 PMCan we please put an end to this constant carping about replacing the National Anthem with Danny Boy from people who have obviously never read the lyrics.
I don’t really want to drag it down to this level but;“Ye’ll come & find the place where I am lying,
And kneel & say an AVE there for me.”Now, I don’t have a problem with the song, in fact I’ve heard it in many a country around the world, & it has been a comfort & a wee taste of home, but it can hardly be called non-denominational.
The last time I checked Prods don’t say Aves’.
In fact, in some circles, it could be seen as being more divisive than the current anthem.Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 04:12 PMJohn East Belfast
I think you’re being harsh on the Irish News. For example, anyone reading your posts would think the Irish News had completely ignored the story. In fact the paper’s back page had a double-lead lay-out, with both Windsor and Croker sharing the column inches fairly evenly. Both games got a reasonable amount of coverage inside. True, the IN didn’t go to town like the Tele did, but frankly I think that was fair enough. I thought it was actually fairly pathetic that the Tele’s evening edition led with the NI result – which, by the time it hit the streets, was almost 24 hours previously. Morning editions are one thing, but evening editions leading with a story from the previous day? It just reeked of journalistic laziness, to be honest – a laziness emphasised by the fact that there wasn’t even the fig leaf of a fresh new angle to the day-old story.
Furthermore, I thought the Irish News lead story re. the price of a house on Alliance Avenue, was a cracking piece of journalism – exactly the kind of sharp, hard-working newshounding that you never, ever see in the lazy, bloated Tele. Just think about the work that had to go into that story, from the point when James Stinson (the reporter) conceived it, to the point where it appeared in the paper. Everyone knows house prices are rising fast, right? It’s probably THE hot topic for middle class Belfast right now. This reporter had the gumption to see an angle, in terms of Belfast’s more notorious addresses. Perhaps he was looking out for a house for sale in an infamous location, perhaps he simply happened across the house on Alliance Avenue, who knows? Either way, he must have been following the progress of the sale for weeks, checking in on a regular basis with the estate agent, maybe even posing as an interested party. Meanwhile he would have been trawling through the archives, looking for all the terrible events that happened in that area, coming up with no fewer than fourteen murders. (Not to mention the Holy Cross saga, which is only five minutes ago really.) Then the house, having gone on sale at £250k, hits the £800k mark. Sorry, but that’s a spectacular story: one that touches on the hot issue of property prices, as well as speaking to the sense we all have this week, that the past is now firmly in the past, and the future is here. A house on Alliance Avenue selling for more than triple the asking price is like a metaphor for Northern Ireland this week.
A great story, and more to the point, a great piece of journalism, worked up from nothing to lead story material.“let’s face it the only reason this was not considered news worthy because it was NI.”
But the Irish News DID cover the NI game in substantial detail. Not to the same extent as the Tele, but as I said, I think the Tele tends to go overboard as they so rarely have real stories of their own to go with.
“As I said Shame on them and they really need to take a good long look at a mindset that prevents them from getting into a piece of drama like this.”
But they HAVE covered NI. Furthermore, IN reporter Kenny Archer has had good things to say about NI and Windsor over the last couple of years. Attitudes are thawing and, I have to say, that is reflected in the pages of the Irish News.
“The Irish News is introducing the prejudice but at the sametime giving us regular editorial lectures on how we need to move forward.”
No it isn’t.
“Think of the good they could have done by running this story?”
But they DID run this story, in some considerable depth. Furthermore, it was not editorially unreasonable to share the back page lead with the RoI game. RoI game was covered, to reflect the interests of the perceived readership, while the NI game was covered in a way that reflected the newsworthiness of the story. Fair enough.
“Instead they chose to emphasise our division.”
No they didn’t.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 05:35 PMYou all do realize the English have been shouting “no surrender” during GSTQ now for years.
So it really cant be that disrespectful to the anthem.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 07:01 PMLondonderry
You all do realize the English have been shouting “no surrender” during GSTQ now for years.
We are Northern Ireland.
Who gives a toss what the English fans do, I certainly don’t use them as my role model.So it really cant be that disrespectful to the anthem
Imagine it’s Remembrance Sunday at the Cenotaph, GSTQ starts up, would you feel it appropriate to give a big beery “No Surrender” right in the middle, in front of the Queen and all those who’ve fought for our nation?
Would that be respectful do you think?So what’s the difference when it’s played before a sporting occasion, it’s exactly the same anthem.
As an alternative (not to placate those who will never support us anyway, but because we need something which has a unique N.Irish identity) how about a medley, without lyrics which involved something from every county (e.g. Glens of Antrim, Londonderry Air,Star of the County Down, Enniskillen Dragoons and er..something from Tyrone and Armagh)?
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 08:04 PM“True, the IN didn’t go to town like the Tele did”
Is the Tele the paper that made idiots of themselves after the Iceland result and now want to make it up to their readers?
Horse racing, the sport of kings because they muck out the stalls and use horse manure on the garden.
Association football, not the sport of kings as they use horse manure on the back pages to sell newspapers.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 08:19 PMWhatever one’s politics, GSTQ as a piece of music is an awful dirge. Is there anything worse in football than hearing England supporters drone it out at the 75 minute mark?
However, it was apparently formalised as a national anthem by James II so at least it’s cross-community. Like.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2007 @ 08:46 PMIt was’nt just No Surrender chants at Windsor on Wednesday might. A work colleague who attended the game witnessed a steward in the Kop end intervening when dozens of fans at the rear of the stand sang a Rangers song linking Henrik Larsson and the IRA !! I will spare you the details but it wasnt the stuff of rocket science…
Sectarianism is still rife at NI games and to pretend that it has been eradicated (as some sections of the media have done) is both factually inaccurate and also smacks of journalistic mis-information. (Darren Fullerton in The Mirror being the shining example...)
Posted by on Mar 31, 2007 @ 11:31 AMmacswiney,
Any signs of the stewards intervening at ROI matches yet, when large sections of the “support” put their sectarian IRA “add ons” into the Fields Of Athenry?
I feel your pain.
Posted by on Mar 31, 2007 @ 12:48 PMRealist,
Actually, I wasnt “in pain” or anywhere even close to it...! I was just allowing a FACT to get in the way of a good story....!
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 07:17 AMmacswiney,
Your “mate from work” full of facts, is he?
Here’s a FACT - Little Northern Ireland top their qualifying group.
Magnificant.
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:16 AMNorthern Nationalists here also are very good at coming up with all kinds of excuses not to support the Northern Ireland team.
So a question to them - let’s say the following takes place:
- the NI team adopts a new flag, say a green-white-blue tricolour;
- home games are moved to a new stadium; and
- anthem is changed to “Danny Boy”.Do you now support NI at least as much as RoI?
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:23 AMBtw, the issue here is whether it is possible to get everyone in NI to support the NI team at least as much as any other international team.
Making allegations about what happens at Republic of Ireland matches is irrelevant. Anyone can do that.
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:25 AMBut not as “magnificent” as your spelling it seems…
PS : there are 2 rounds of matches in NI’s group on June 2nd and June 6th. NI dont play at all. Spain are playing Liechtenstein annd Latvia (guaranteed 6 points) and Sweden are at home to Iceland (surely 3 points) and then away to Denmark. This will almost definitely leave NI in 3rd place and give the group a more realistic look…
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:28 AMmacswiney,
“But not as “magnificent” as your spelling it seems…”
Thanks for that!
“PS : there are 2 rounds of matches in NI’s group on June 2nd and June 6th. NI dont play at all. Spain are playing Liechtenstein annd Latvia (guaranteed 6 points) and Sweden are at home to Iceland (surely 3 points) and then away to Denmark. This will almost definitely leave NI in 3rd place and give the group a more realistic look…”
Honestly?
Wow - for someone who doesn’t have much time for Northern Ireland, you’ve been doing your homework, haven’t you?
PS. Sweden are in Denmark before they play Iceland.
You’ll also know that we’ve a home match on 22nd August - the only match in the group that day.
I think we might just sneak three points in it too :-)
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:50 AM“Northern Nationalists here also are very good at coming up with all kinds of excuses not to support the Northern Ireland team.
So a question to them - let’s say the following takes place:
- the NI team adopts a new flag, say a green-white-blue tricolour;
- home games are moved to a new stadium; and
- anthem is changed to “Danny Boy”.Do you now support NI at least as much as RoI? “
No. Why would I? I have a team that plays under my flag, stands for my anthem and takes players from all 32 counties.
I am not “making excuses”. It’s just NI doesn’t represent me any more than, say, France.
Posted by on Apr 01, 2007 @ 11:55 AM
