Thursday, March 13, 2008
No respect for Irish indentity or culture
Did you guess the culprit? Yes, it is elements of the Catholic education sector in West Belfast.
As reported in today’s Andersonstown News (not online yet) at least four schools in West Belfast will be expecting pupils to attend class on St Patrick’s Day. This year the Saint’s day falls during ‘Holy Week’ and the rules say no Saints days are to be celebrated, instead there is an unofficial St Patrick’s Day on Saturday. Why unofficial? The rules say no moving a Saint’s Day. This all means the 17th is not a Holy Day of Obligation and the schools have decided to remain open.
For those who think St Patrick’s Day is about much more than religious observance (if that), who believe it is an important family occasion, a National day of importance, a day for developing and maintaining Irish identity and culture the decision has provoked outrage.
Does this raise broader questions about how the Nation celebrates identity and culture in 21st century Ireland? Is it possible to have a truly inclusive and secular National day?
(btw: my son won’t be going to school)
Mark McGregor @ 08:38 PM
Mark, the story’s been around for some time.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:05 PMMark
Should’ve sent the lad to my school- we respect the National holiday!
Hope you and the young ‘uns enjoy the day.
It does strike me as bizarre, given that schools have discretion to organise their Exceptional Closure dates.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:09 PMMay I ask a question purely for information and not to start a row.
What is a Holy Day of Obligation?
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:10 PMChris,
When his principal reads the letter he is going in with tomorrow and takes my phonecall later we may just have to send him.
Any places for a P3? ;0)
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:13 PMTurgon, it is a day when Catholics are obliged to attend Mass otherwise it is a cardinal sin.
Of course, as has been remarked here before - the current St Pat’s day is about as authentically Irish as a leprechaun hat. It comes from the States, via Britain.
In my youth in the 70s St Patrick’s Day was marked in West Belfast by people going to Mass mainly.
Not that I am defending that. When the last protestant minister is strangled with the guts of the last priest Ireland might have a chance of freedom.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:15 PMCS Parnell,
Thank you. Sort of obvious next question, again genuinely without ulterior motive: what is a cardinal sin?Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:17 PMA Cardinal sin is a sin that guarantees you go to hell. (Until you get absolution, of course)
Most semi-practising Catholics don’t like it when i tell them that the Sunday Mass they’ve just missed means, in their own world view, they are set for the big fry up.
But probably would be best if a real True Believer explained all this.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:22 PMCS Parnell,
Thank youPosted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:23 PMCS,
You sure? I’m not a great one on religion but I thought cardinal sins were also called the ‘7 deadly sins’. All pretty much based on character not action. Though, they’re the least of my worries if that god thing turns out to be true.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:30 PMSt. Pat’s isn’t a Holy Day of Obligation in the states—I went to Catholic primary school and we never had that day off. We only had the big eight (or was it six? or seven? five?)
Not sure if it’s only Ireland/NI who consider it an HDO, but I would assume so—it being more of a national holiday than a holy one.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:53 PMMy daughter’s school ( an integrated school ) is also open on Monday whilst the creche the rest of the children attend is closed . I’m off work, but big deal. St patrick’s day is typically none of the things you mention Mark, although it can be some of those things for some people. For most people it has turned into an opportunity for total drunkenness. And whilst I am a somewhat fan of drunkenness myself the last time I went out for a bite to eat with my parents and family in belfast on St patrick’s day it was embarassing. Drunken young men lying in doorways and urinating openly along the Ormeau Road the streets strewn with rubbish and in my experience the situation in the town i now live in is similar.
So I’m glad to gete the day off and think I’ll take a walk on the beach and have guinness and stew in the house!
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:53 PMMark,
If you wilfully prevent your kid from going to school on a school day, aren’t you technically breaking the law ? And if you write a letter bragging about it, won’t that be admissable in court ?
Jesus, and people make Alliance out to be holier-than-thou.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:56 PMYou are right, Mark. But what I meant to say is mortal sin - in the words of the Catholic encyclopedia: Mortal sin cuts us off entirely from our true last end; venial sin only impedes us in its attainment
So it is a mortal sin, not a cardinal one.
Gluttons for punishment may read this here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm#III
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 09:58 PMMortal, venial, or honest slip, if St. Pat’s is only considered an HDO in Ireland, doesn’t that mean that only the Irish will perish if they don’t take the day off?
Well that settles it: even God is sectarian. :)
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 10:05 PMCS,
You think pointing out my technical illegality makes me seem more holier-than-thou than you? ;0) (they’ll never take me alive)
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 10:19 PMSt. Patrick’s Day should be a full public holiday. What is the practice in the south?
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 10:47 PMBut a public holiday for what? Getting slobberingly drunk and worse?
Young adults and their brain cells may be much safer in school.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 10:56 PMMark, the Catholic Church is primarily interested in… er… Catholicism. What’s the surprise? You know your Irish history, don’t you?
The very early date of Easter probably plays merry hell with the school calendar, so they’ve probably saved an exceptional day of closure for later in the year when the weather is better. I do take your point, especially given that the parades etc. aren’t later in the year.
As for a mortal sin, when I was in school a mortal sin was defined as “something you clearly know is seriously wrong”. I don’t think unabsolved mortal sins damn one to hell, just a little longer in purgatory.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 11:01 PMAquifer,
On that rationale we wouldn’t have weekends. Most people don’t get out to get hammered on public holidays and those who do don’t need a holiday as an excuse anyway.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 11:18 PMSammy,
I thought maybe you would have addressed the final section of my blog. The bit everyone seems to be ignoring.
Is this just a manifestation of how the day doesn’t address the realities of an increasingly secular and multicultural Ireland? If the parents of children attending Catholic run schools can face interference to enjoying the broader aspects of the day, how can it ever be a truly inclusive day celebrating all Irish identities?
A church day or a day for the people? And yes, I recognise many younger people (and others) see it as a binge day. I see a mass I don’t attend, a club match, a family lunch, a parade, a walk in the country and a few swift ones when the kids go to bed - all the things that make life worth living.
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 11:38 PMMark, I understand the last time this problem arose was about 1940 so the next one may well be a long way down the line.
St. Patricks Day 2008
This year St.Patrick’s feast Day has officially been moved to Saturday 15 March by the Vatican. The reason for this is that Easter is very early this year and as a result the 17 March falls on the Monday of Holy Week.
No liturgical feast takes precedence over the days of Holy Week so St Patrick’s feast day will come two days earlier on Saturday March 15th to avoid such a conflict.
The last time this happened was in 1940 and it will be probably be another 68 years before it happens again. St Patrick’s Day will return to the 17 March in 2009
Posted by on Mar 13, 2008 @ 11:59 PMSammy
As for a mortal sin, when I was in school a mortal sin was defined as “something you clearly know is seriously wrong”.
I think, to be clear, that to commit a mortal sin you must know it to be wrong, aware of the gravity of it and make the conscious choice to do it anyway. Effectively, it amounts to the rejection of God by a well formed conscience.
This will indeed damn you if you die. Though I wonder if the gravity of missing Mass is truly understood these days :PTurgon, the wiki article cites I John 5.16 -17 as the scriptural basis:
“If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one - to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal.” (NRSV)
Posted by on Mar 14, 2008 @ 12:13 AM“Though I wonder if the gravity of missing Mass is truly understood these days”
I don’t know about the gravity, Kensei, but your comment reminds me of a weekend trip to Dublin circa 1970. A friend and I met up with two lovely damsels from Carlow on the Saturday evening and arranged to drive out to Howth the following afternoon. We arrived back in Dublin around 6pm and one of them wanted to go to Mass as she hadn’t been earlier. We searched high and low but couldn’t find an evening service. She was very distressed but her friend (and mine) couldn’t see what all the fuss was about.
Posted by on Mar 14, 2008 @ 12:38 AMNevin,
They may have moved it but it doesn’t retain its status as a Holy Day of Obligation, a cosmetic move.
The 17th remains a public holiday in the 26 counties and a bank holiday in the 6 counties. The secular festival seems set to continue while a few schools insist on making it a purely Catholic day or not, as I said before with attitudes like this how can it ever be truly inclusive in an increasingly secular and multicultural society. Just like Christmas, St Patrick’s Day is now much more than a day for the religious.
Posted by on Mar 14, 2008 @ 12:42 AMFor a sin to be defined as mortal three conditions must apply:
1. Grievous matter - the action taken in the commission of the sin must be grievously wrong.
2. Full knowledge - the sinner must have full knowledge of the wrong that he was doing at the time of its commission.
3. Full consent - the sinner must have given his full (knowing) consent to the commission of the act which constituted the sin.
If any one of the above conditions is missing the sin fails to be defined as mortal by default.
So really, one needs to be a bit of a ruthless, unfeeling bastard to commit such a sin.Clearly, despite the terrors that were drummed into us as boys, masturbation for example, hardly fits the bill.
All clear now? Go then and sin no more.
Posted by on Mar 14, 2008 @ 02:53 AM
