Tuesday, February 26, 2008
New junior minister announced
Another unlikely event.. Ian Paisley Jnr officially resigns, with “deep humility”, apparently.. and the DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson, MP, MLA, is sworn in as the new Northern Ireland Executive junior minister. Which just leaves the question of what next for the Paisley brand.. Adds As Mark Devenport points out, the resignation itself took all of 26 seconds.
Pete Baker @ 10:34 AM
Butterknife
“i can’t see a Robinson/Donaldson tag team happening”
Then wake up. It’s reality now and will develop further when Robinson takes the top job.
“What has happened to Willie McCrea MLA?”
Billy Wright happened. RIP career.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 08:39 AMsomeone last night rather unkindly summed up Jeffrey’s political career to me as follows-
1984 Enoch Powell’s bag carrier
1988 Jim Molyneaux’s bag carrier
1996 David Trimble’s bag carrier
2008 Ian Paisley’s bag carrierIt was pointed out that the one time he had the opportunity to lead- in 2001/2 when he could have brought Trimble down by a leadership challenge- he bottled it. Hence a career reaches its deserved apogee. But will Punt keep him on in a few months when the old man finally goes? I thnk not
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 08:41 AMDarth, at the time of the Trimble v Smyth contest for the leadership a friend of mine had a brief conversation with Jeffrey in the gents after the result was announced. My friend put it to Jeffrey that if he’d stood he would have won to which Jeffrey allegedly responded, “Sure, there’ll always be another day”.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man - but that man is IMO unlikely to be Jeffrey.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 09:11 AMNevin
being leader of the UUP would have burried Jeffrey in Reg-esq obscurity. I think that even then he saw his future as part of a realigned unioniosm.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 09:21 AMThe UUP would have been as divided under JD as Trimble.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 09:56 AMWhatever happened to Union First, Bonar, it doesn’t get a mention in his bio? Jeffrey threw in his lot with the DUP and, judging by the Dromore result, fragmentation continues.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 11:31 AM“being leader of the UUP would have buried Jeffrey in Reg-esq obscurity. I think that even then he saw his future as part of a realigned unionism.”
“The UUP would have been as divided under JD as Trimble.”
I’m not so sure about either point. Firstly, Trimble benefitted from a large supine rump that unthinkingly backed him just because he was the leader, and I think they would have simply transferred their passivity to buttress Jeffrey, while the liberals would have been unable to mount a sustained opposition, lacking numbers talent, and courage. They would have retreated to the wings and whinged as they did under Molyneaux.
Yes, Unionism would always have realigned, but a Donaldson-led UUP and a Robinson-led DUP would have coalesced, and Jeffrey wouldn’t have been left scrabbling for a junior ministry. Arguably the UUP vote would have held up and there would have been two evenly divided Unionist parties, which is the only way that competition works for the benefit of pan-Unionism.
“Cometh the hour, cometh the man - but that man is IMO unlikely to be Jeffrey.”
Agrred. it’s all downhill from now on.Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 12:10 PMJeffrey never had the bottle to take the leadership instead wanting it handed to him on a plate. That just doesnt happen and for lessons in how to bring about change he has an opportunity to learn from a frontrow seat.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 12:17 PMDarth,
I remember those heady days differently. By the time that JD had a reasonable shot at the leadership there was a prominent group of agitators that backed Trimble as a way of making sure JD and Co couldn’t ever (ever-ever-ever) lead the party. Their agitation would have made it impossible for a united party. All they had to do was keep bussing in the blue rinses from Fermanagh.
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 01:20 PM“the blue rinses from Fermanagh”
Would that be the “36-24-36 Club”, Clousseau, tea-makers to the “24 Club”?
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 01:59 PMJeffrey, could have lead the UUP even up the point of Trimble’s resignation had he still been around. In a strange way he still possibly could! but his judgement has been very poor all along.
Anybody who remembers all those interminable UUC meetings will recall JD never knew when to accept a compromise and when to press for the kill. On two occasions he clearly called it wrong - so IMO he doesn’t have the ability to judge. Robo may have given him this position as a poisoned chalice to smooth in the policing and justice. Any unionist who does this willeither have to be very clever and politically astute or will go down in flames - you decide!
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 02:14 PM“All they had to do was keep bussing in the blue rinses from Fermanagh.”
An excellent argument for repartition- and as a bonus, we’d hjave lost Arlene!!
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 05:07 PMBut Darth I might have lost Elenwe
Posted by on Feb 27, 2008 @ 08:00 PMTurgon, I hate to say it, but as a general rule of thumb,where the Presbyterians ain’t, ain’t woth having. Hence we should have kept the Laggan in 1921. But Fermanagh -though a place Presbyterians know of, and even occasionally holiday in, has long been a foreign land to us. It would not really have been missed.
In earlier times the maps would have said “Here be Anglicans” at Londonderrygonnelly and we’d have nodded wisely and stayed away.
We have about 3 churches there.The indefatigable race that is the Ulster Scot took a look , and saw that the farmland was underwater, so moved to easier pickings. And generally speaking, the less Ulster Scots an area, the more reasonable and accommodating the people- which of course is ideal in normal times, but no use in the constitutional struggle we have been engaged in. This is why out fellow Britons don’t like us: we are thrawn and proud of it. But if we hadn’t been thrawn, we’d have been sold down the river centuries ago.Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 07:56 AMDarth,
You are of course correct. I fear there is no hope for me as if and when we finally move to Fermanagh I will end up being an Independent Methodist which is an odd combination of non Calvinism and fundamentalism. Ah well such is life, I suppose it has been predestined.Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 10:56 AMTurgon
I don’t want to question the fair Elenwes’ antecedents but your arrival amongst the dreary steeples (anglican no doubt)must do wonders for the depth of the gene pool.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 11:08 AM“Finally move to Fermanagh” - Turgon - you have been on about this for about 20 years. Get on with it mun.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 11:31 AMThe sulphur reeks, the arras swishes open, and for a one-off, Frank Sinatra-retirement tour special, a few words.
In the First Instance
I’ve just taken down the relevant volume of Johnston-Liik’s History of the Irish Parliament to stare once again at sundry bewigged ancestors in Francis Wheatley’s portrait of the Commons: now there was an assembly properly constituted. Admittedly, in a story of decline and fall almost as painful as that of the Northern Counties Club, the pass had already been sold as early as 1707, in terms of letting Presbyterians sit in the place, but there we are. Or rather, here we are, and such nonsense, and from traditional Unionists to boot on this thread. Still, a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi, as Enoch might have said. Which is to say - in what sense for anyone (especially resiling Ulster Unionists) is the wee man’s appointment *not* good news?Let’s start with the guff first (and I don’t mean tawdry autospeak like Llamedos’ “single issue bigot” cr*p). We have Turgon pronouncing Donaldson ‘nakedly’ ambitious, albeit while we have plenty of other posters denouncing him for not going for the UU leadership. So which is it? Well God knows, he’s doubtless ambitious enough - but do we really want unambitious politicians? Sure, the ultra Tory in me quite likes the idea of MPs going off to Westminster so bereft of personal ambition that all they want to do is get back to the demesne and recategorise their collection of stuffed penguins. But seriously: personal ambition = credible vice. Yet that’s the thing. Donaldson plainly wasn’t acting solely, or even largely out of naked self-interest in taking on Trimble. Quite, as the numpties (Reg, the Gimp &c;) demonstrated, the reverse. They stayed quiet, facilitated the Turtle’s comprehensive destruction of both the UUP’s electoral dominance, and, much of the lineaments of Unionism’s structural narrative (letting go so easily of Molyneauxesque requirements for ‘decontamination’ being amongst his worst mistakes). Whereas Donaldson fought him, at some personal cost, in terms of both reputation and the easy life so utterly sacrificed. I appreciate quite a few posters of this thread did their bit too, but it’s slightly more than ludicrous to knock Donaldson for the factional leadership he and he alone offered us.
If all those UUC’s had just been about his UU preferment, then Donaldson could of course have gripped at the edges for effect, then been bought off. That’s not quite how I remember it all panning out. But then we come onto the absurdity that he mishandled internal opposition to Trimble? How was that exactly? By, er, being the sole, effective focal point of it at every stage of the revolt? And if you doubt that, just think on where ‘Agreement sceptic’ Ulster Unionism has got to since Donaldson left the UUP. Rallied behind Burnside has it? Uh, no. For what it’s worth, I think Donaldson shouldn’t have fretted quite so much about being seen to be ‘in it for himself’ if he staged a leadership bid, and should instead have, in the, erm, slightly unhelpful precedent of Albert Reynolds/Paul Keating, challenged the failing incumbent (Trimble/Haughey/Hawke). He’d have lost the first contest, but then he’d equally surely have won the second, after Trimble equally surely loused up his ‘second chance’. Or so I said.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 11:32 AMIn the Second Instance
What’s been so silly about this thread has been the rewriting of the past. How exactly was Donaldson demonised by those against him (which at the start of this decade included pretty much everyone from, our own government, through the nationalist parties, the Free State government, the American administration and the BBC - an all out co-prosperity sphere of stupidity in fact [apologies to David Frum])? Why that he was a ‘splitter’ and a wrecker’, who loved intrigue for its own sake, blah, blah, Belfast Telegraph leaden prosed blah. So here’s an extraordinary thing - how has he behaved, after Trimble drove him out of the UUP? Has there been intrigue, has he caused splits? I can’t see any evidence for it inside the DUP: can anyone else?So here we come to it: self-evidently this is the beginning of the end for the Paisleys. In hoariest of Ulster argot: good riddance to bad rubbish. Robinson is making his move, and not before time. This, ultimately, is about *him*, not Donaldson. Do we think that Robinson replacing Paisley strengthens Unionism or weakens it? Do we believe that promoting such talent as Unionism has available to it is a better course than the one the Turtle followed - fearfully and in every instance appointing third rate lackies and fourth rate yes-men? Call me a sentimentalist, but Donaldson’s CV to my eye is as about as good as it gets for a modern Unionist politician. There simply isn’t a demonstrably more able alternative, and at some point, those of us who argued against the Agreement, loathed Paisley for 30 years, and think that Republicanism awaits its juridical reckoning, have got to ask ourselves, what do we want? I want able Unionism ably prosecuted by able Unionists. Donaldson in office is a step firmly in the right direction, and a step away from the political incompetence that has gripped us - even you grim, toiling dissenters milling about outside the kitchen garden’s famine-relief walls waiting for this month’s farmers’ market to start so you can buy the good lady wife some organic corn fed ducks’ eggs for her breakfast - for a generation.
Hoorah sez I, and that, I hope, is that.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 11:32 AM“I will end up being an Independent Methodist which is an odd combination of non Calvinism and fundamentalism. Ah well such is life, I suppose it has been predestined. “
Fair enough. I could never fault a man for being a Calvinist, and I think Rev Robert Bradford was an Independent Methodist. He preached the best sermon I have ever heard in a Presbyterian pulpit-on predestination as it happens.
But be honest, unless you’ve got webbed feet Fermanagh’s a bit ...well…dull. It doesn’t even aspire to being dreich, like much of Tyrone. And when you’ve lived in the high octane paradise that is Londonderry, anything’s a disappointment!Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 11:58 AMKarl
all good points, but I respectfully argue slightly incomplete. Theoretically JD is in the front rank of Unionist leaders- the triumvirate of Punt, Dodds, and Allister added to himself being a match for any opponent. The late George Dawson was another shrewd cookieHowever, he has noticably shrunk in the DUP, and his supine adoration of the Ould Croc would embarass even the most devoted Free P.
The way the DUP overpromoted Poots, Junior, and Foster, nevermind throwing peerages away on Eileen and the other drones is a damning indictment of the party. Not a cheep came from JD or the supposed leader-in-waiting as these aberrations were allowed. Such chances to build a movement are too rare to waste.
Pre-Monday Jeffrey was reduced to sectarian stunts like the SAS invite. You just felt his heart wasn’t in it any more.
I fear he’ll become an effective technocrat- the ultimate backroom boy. Unionism needs to see the present arrangements as a phase in the struggle ( as the Shinners do). He saw the big picture once- can Jeffrey do so again as junior minister? Because you can’t see Robinson or Dodds ever rocking the boat. And if he doesn’t, the “Folks on the Hill” will do for him as surely as “Spitting Image” did for David Steel, with the caricature becoming the reality.Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 12:18 PMdarth
I agree that junior minister seems a little demeaning to the man who laid low Trimbleism especially considering those who currently are ministers proper (Poots FFS!). However, let’s hold fire until after Doc Croc exits stage left- if Donaldson remains junior then his career is over. If he becomes Justice Minister then it could go either way.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 01:49 PM“The way the DUP overpromoted Poots, Junior, and Foster, nevermind throwing peerages away on Eileen and the other drones is a damning indictment of the party.”
Some of the above was to keep the Oul Fella sweet. I agree with BonarLaw however the post Paisley era has more significance than the career of JD.
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 06:19 PMSorry to drag things waaayyy back to the beginning but Steven Montgomery cracked the IPJ-Lobster joke with me months ago, 20 Dec to be precise. I suppose he’s not exactly dining out on it, but its a near thing.
Incidentally, the foods ok, nothing exciting or fancy but he does own a farm that produces really top-grade meats and if you’re lucky, you’ll get some in there. Coffee’s shite though in my humble.
Oh dear, first comment in months and I’m gonna get Mick done on the Irish News precedent….
Posted by on Feb 28, 2008 @ 06:53 PMdarth rumsfeld: nevermind throwing peerages away on Eileen and the other drones
I’m not convinced of this view. The DUP has a fairly shallow talent pool, and needs to keep its energetic people in the electoral battles while there are new seats to be won. The peerages surely went to people who would otherwise have to drop out of representative politics anyway. They may be able to offer up effective people as peers once the number of MLA and MP seats levels off for them, or if they can attract some decent people to the party. Until then, it will be drones and crones.
Posted by on Feb 29, 2008 @ 05:13 PM
