Thursday, March 29, 2007
More paramilitary power plays
With £1.2million of public funds already promised by the Secretary of State for Wales etc, the UDA has announced it has expelled two figures in the South East Antrim area of that organisation - recently reported to have been in contact with Ihab Shoukri. Those figures are identified in the BBC report as the UDA leader in that area, Gary Fisher, and his political advisor Tommy Kirkham. As the Belfast Telegraph reminds us, it’s a by-now familiar pattern and with a reported rally planned in Rathcoole this weekend, the possibility for another power play confrontation can’t be ruled out.. no doubt the police will be better prepared this time..
Pete Baker @ 09:49 AM
Kirkham wanted Ā£8.5m to wind down the UDA in his area. I wonder how many other members of the UPRG are on the make?
If there are signs that another feud is about to kick off then the Gov’t may want to cancel that cheque for the Ā£1m.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 10:28 AMI wonder how many periods of power-play the UDA are allowed, before having to play the boundary game like the rest of us.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 10:35 AMWhen little people pay protection money it’s called criminality.
When PIRA gets protection money, it’s called bank robbery.
When Governments pay protection money to the UDA, what is it called?
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:04 AMIt’s called either Danegeld or whatever word is used to describe the Romans employing the Visigoths to “protect” them.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:06 AM“If there are signs that another feud is about to kick off then the Govāt may want to cancel that cheque for the Ā£1m.”
Very naive. This has all been choreographed to the letter. There will be no feud or falling out. The members of SEA are now free to return to the fold and take part in the conflict transformation process. They have already been made well aware of all developments and are fully supportive.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:13 AMI see the UDA apologist has returned
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:23 AMI was not aware that I had been away. And I am certainly not an apologist for the UDA as I fully support the process that they are undertaking.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:26 AMIt seems the UDA’s attitude to decommissioning is that the most important thing is to dispose of the undesirable elements in their organisation (that is those who they find undesirable)as opposed to the actual arms…
An attitude which can only really be seen as logical when you understand the warped mentality of the UDA…
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:34 AMHMG announcing the money for the UDA was absolutely disgraceful. This is an organisation that has been responsible in part and in some areas in totality for the decline of working-class Protestant communities, through their insidious leeching/drug dealing and extortion.
They shouldn’t be getting one single penny.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:39 AMClearly people have not read any press statement, CTI booklet or even bothered to listen to the spokesperson on the television last week. If they had they would have seen clear and not so subtle hints that this was part of a process to build confidence within both the UDA and the wider community that would ultimately see the eradication of the need to hold arms (as in guns, not just holding hands) as to transform is to change. Or as the dictionary on my computer puts it;
“transform |transĖfĆ“rm| verb [ trans. ] make a thorough or dramatic change in the form, appearance, or character of : lasers have transformed cardiac surgery | he wanted to transform himself into a successful businessman. ā¢ [ intrans. ] undergo such a change : an automobile that transformed into a boat. ā¢ change the voltage of (an electric current). ā¢ Mathematics change (a mathematical entity) by transformation.”
Note the word ‘dramatic’. What would be dramatic about change in the UDA? A new flag perhaps? A new song maybe? Or perhaps something so radical, so historical that it will take a wee while to put it into practice? I wonder what that could be?
In constantly deriding statements or sticking up the usual insults I am afraid sluggerites (or slugerettes) fall into the dim and sad category. Dim insomuch as they do not quite understand the complexity of what is taking place (and the magnitude and the precision to maintain discipline) or just plain old sad because they are not in the loop and are missing out on things).
Someone once said that everyone is entitled to an opinion. Not so. Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:50 AMloftholdingsword,
I am aware that this process is designed to win the confidence of both the government and the people that the UDA is attempting to transform itself dramatically from what it was.
I am merely attacking their technique, the selective dismissal of violent elements from within the UDA and the subsequent intimidation that has forced these individuals out of Northern Ireland all together. I find this insane at best.
How exactly does the UDA intend to win public confidence if they still employ the tactics of organised intimdation?
All they are doing is removing those that disagree with the leadership NOT transforming their basic attitudes to politics…
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:56 AMfair enough loftholdingwood, but people do want to see results. So a redoubling of efforts would be in order.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 11:57 AMThe “community” who does the UDA speak for other than themselves and their own selfish, twisted agenda?
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:02 PMRefusing to decommissionj isn’t the only gripe I have with the UDA, Loft. Perhaps you can tell us when we can expect and end to the extortion rackets and the drug-dealing, seeing as your “in the loop” so to speak.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:05 PMlofthold....
“that would ultimately see the eradication of the need to hold arms (as in guns, not just holding hands) as to transform is to change....he wanted to transform himself into a successful businessman”
I like the sound of that.
“UDA & Sons”
You could open a head office in Dublin to take advantage of the low rate of corporation tax.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:08 PMUlster
The lack of response to legitimate questions indicates to me that behind all the high-sounding political talk, this is nothing more than a pay-off. They (the UDA) have already recieved millions indirectly through “ex-prisoners” projects funded by Europe, PBNI etc and what has the result been? More drug-dealing, more extortion and more intimidation. The UDA is not a political organisation, it is a rag-bag group of thugs using politics as a cover for their crime.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:16 PMLHW,
Very naive. This has all been choreographed to the letter. There will be no feud or falling out. The members of SEA are now free to return to the fold and take part in the conflict transformation process. They have already been made well aware of all developments and are fully supportive.Why forgive me LHW, it’s not like the UDA has previous in this area, is it? And the Tele tells us that “A senior loyalist source said the UDA is aware that the Fisher leadership plans some kind of a rally in Rathcoole this weekend - designed to demonstrate that they are still in charge and that they have support in the area.”
So it would seem that somebody hasn’t told Fisher about the choreography.
Note the word ādramaticā. What would be dramatic about change in the UDA? A new flag perhaps? A new song maybe? Or perhaps something so radical, so historical that it will take a wee while to put it into practice? I wonder what that could be?
Let’s cut the crap and get to the bottom line - the UDA haven’t and don’t intend to hand weapons in. Until they do you can talk about “CTI” until the cows come home but you’ll have zero credibility, because if you were serious about the conflict transformation that you’re so keen on, you would get rid of the weapons as a first step to prove your bona fides.Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:18 PMTwo fair minded and good comments that include reasonable questions. So I’ll answer them!
Selective dismissal is unfortunate but do not be under any illusion that previous attempts at bringing these people into line have been rebuffed. And I mean bringing them into line by discussion and consensus not violence. The whole consultation process that was undertaken in the last 6 months (as previously noted - over 4000 members took part in a debate and evaluation - including questionnaires!) was in order to understand what the UDA wanted, where it wanted to go and how it could get there. To transform. Every area took part with the exception of SEA. But the members of SEA were kept informed and were fully supportive of the process. The leadership of that particular area did not want debate or discussion or even the odd funny comment. It was a dictatorship designed to protect a crumbling empire. If you are confident of your position you tend to want to talk about it and debate it. These people did not want to talk to their members, they hated even seeing them. The membership wanted back into the fold and their wish has been given public approval.
Winning public confidence? I suppose what the public wants is no violence, no guns, no drugs, no dominance of a particular community. The shackles left off in other words. One DSD official told me that when he saw the CTI presentation and the proposals contained therein he asked some hard hitting questions and what struck him was the openness and honesty of the people that were there. They accepted that in defending a community they had (inadvertently) caused harm to that community. One person stated that he wanted to firstly heal the wounds in his organisation but then he was keen to heal the wounds inflicted upon the community itself. But then talk is cheap and it is the radical ideas put forward that truly need to take hold and that will come about by the employment of the progressive element within the UPRG to continue to push the boundaries.
This is getting a trifle rambling now so I will leave it at that.
Yes Parcifal, a redoubling of efforts is called for. I’d go further. We need to move at a far faster speed and engage with as many people as possible as soon as possible. And that includes Sinn Fein. We must engage in the political sense. Our community and our people demand rapid change.
God I sound like Tony Blair. I swore that I would never sound like that.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:18 PMI see the UDA apologist has returned
I don’t agree one iota with LHW however I do think it’s welcome that he comes here to state his casePosted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:19 PMOur community and our people demand rapid change.
Yet they never vote for you. Ever.Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:21 PM“āUDA & Sonsā
You could open a head office in Dublin to take advantage of the low rate of corporation tax.”
I quite like the idea of that. After all, we tend to be in Dublin a fair bit nowadays.
marty (not ingram),
No doubt he will try a wee bit of an uprising but, between me and you, it will have little support, if any. Yes, CTI will become a buzz word now for the foreseeable future. Better get used to it.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:25 PM“I donāt agree one iota with LHW however I do think itās welcome that he comes here to state his case”
Thank you. Likewise.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:27 PMThere are quite a few people in the business community who could do very real damage to NI PLC by simply selling up and leaving. Any little sweetners coming our way?
If this is a return to normality I must have had a sheltered up bringing. Basically this is buying off parasites, people you have oppressed the communities they infest. These are the people who have caused the run down of areas like the Crumlin, Shankill, York Road. Look at anywhere that they have hold and you see decline and rot.
If you want to support the regeneration of these areas, if you want to provide better opportunity for the young these are not the people you should support.
The best place for criminals is in prison. It is that simple. Of course we come back to the core of the problem collusion. So perhaps this should simple be seen as payment for services rendered and don’t go talking about it?
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:28 PMYes, CTI will become a buzz word now for the foreseeable future. Better get used to it.
Sorry for sounding like a stuck record, but what about the weapons? There would no better way to start to build confidence.Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:29 PM“Defending a community”? - are you for real? What has the UDA ever done to defend the integrety and vibrancy of communities like Tullycarnet and Sandy Row? Operating illegal sheebens? Extorting money from local businesses? Shooting kids in the knees for seeling cannabis to their mates - not because this was wrong, but because it threatened their monopoly on the drug trade!
How much money has the UDA already indirectly recieved through projects such as EPIC, “Gae Lairn” etc. and what has the result been? Have we seen any evidence at all to indicate that the UDA is even one step down the road towards abandoning vioelnce.
I’m sorry Loft, but it just won’t do. The UDA is a parasitical presence in working-class Loyalist areas - their political front-men have been summarily rejected at election after election - they have no support whatsoever within the community and ordinary working-class Prods (myself included) just want you and your fellow-travellers to decommission and disappear.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2007 @ 12:29 PM
