Friday, September 05, 2008
More from the Republic joining the British Army
In my first year in England on our way to Liverpool from Portsmouth, my first car broke down. Cutting a long story short, the three of us split up and hitched instead. My last lift was in a brown mini filled, as it happened with four Scouse squaddies. It turned out they were all huge and in the Irish Guards. Two of them had cousins on the Falls Road. It’s an old tradition. Now it seems more people from the south are flocking once again to join the British army. Some of them former members of the Irish Defence Forces. H/T Dermot.
Mick Fealty @ 07:00 PM
This is not a new phenomenon. The true reason has nothing to do with perceived West Britishness. Simply put, it’s much harder to get into the Irish Army than the British one. You need a good Leaving Cert to get into the Irish Army but the British Army will take you if you have a bare pass in your Junior Cert. Same in the UK, all you need is a smattering of GCSEs.
In light of this, this excerpt from the IT article is worth re-reading:
“Sgt Gavin O’Neill from Tallaght is one of two recruitment officers in Enniskillen.
My father is still a serving soldier in the Irish Army, and I applied to join shortly after doing my Leaving Cert but I was unsuccessful.”
Which is a euphemism for: I failed my Leaving and decided to lump in with the other dullard Paddies in the Irish Guards while the best and brightest went to serve their country in the Irish Army.
Note the areas in Dublin with the poorest standards of education retain the strongest traditions of sending soldiers to fight for the British Army: Finglas, Cabra, Tallaght, Ballyfermot (where Ian Malone the ‘Irish’ fatality in Iraq was from).
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 07:27 PMI would agree with Mac on this. I can recall at least 5 friends who served in the DF who had younger sibiling who were unsuccessful in their attempts to follow their older brothers into the Irish Army and so the desire to soldier led them into wearing the British DPM’s and this was just in one Unit. The fact that the DF is a small force means competition is indeed higher for places. Also the southern boyos don’t have experience of british soldiers at work as many in the north do and so are perhaps less bothered with that history. Believe it or not, I can recall coming across an NCO in the Defence Forces who was from Coventry.....so....ahem...its not all one way traffic !
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 08:01 PMI hardly think five or six recruits counts as a ‘flock’ to justify the ‘flocking’ Mick. A few may join the British Army but then again many more don’t.
The Irish Times has been running a propoganda column for some time - it ended today by Lieutenant Paddy Bury of the RIR and of Wicklow (my guess is he’s related to Robin Bury of the Reform Movement) about his adventures in Helmand Province in Afghanistant. It reads like a Boys Own tale of derring do though we have seen today that, unlike Boys Own adventures, it can have fatal consequences for the soldiers and for those at the business end of these soldiers.
Perhaps ‘soldiers’ is the wrong word. Perhaps ‘mercenaries’ is closer to the mark? After all when they demob from the British Army won’t they end up with somebody like Tim Spicer or some such gun for hire.
These fellows may be following their own stars and they may think it’s an honourable course. I don’t share that opinion. If they want to join an army, they should join the Irish Army, whose main role is peace keeping rather than warmongering.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 08:10 PMJust wait Concubhar its coming........
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 08:27 PMThere’s an excellent letter in today’s Irish Times. The key bit starts:
Not long after the second World War, my late father-in-law, Tom Stoney, was a senior pupil at Harrow School. Winston Churchill, who was a former pupil there, was paying a visit and a group of prefects were lined up to be presented to him. When Churchill reached Tom, his housemaster introduced him: “This is Thomas Stoney, from Co Mayo in Ireland.”.
Churchill harrumphed and disdainfully remarked: “The bloody Irish, what have they ever done for our wars?” Tom, only 17 years old, drew himself to his full height and retorted: “Thanks to your wars, sir, I have no male relatives; no father - he died in the last war, and no uncle, he died in the Great War.” Jaws dropped, and the housemaster bustled Churchill down the line of other blushing prefects.
Catch it under the title Irishmen in British uniforms at: http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/
Or, for the really discerning, complete with commentary, it’s at http://redfellow.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/divided-loyalties-being-anglo-irish/
From the internal evidence of this letter, I believe the young Tom Stoney was later the Venerable Tom Stoney, CoI rector of Broughshane, County Antrim, taught to shoot by Larry McGovern of the Newport, Mayo, battalion of the IRA.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 08:39 PMI am amazed that the Irish Times keeps bringing up this non-story. From my home town in Clare I know of four guys who joined the British Army of my age and younger. I remember meeting one of the guys in Dublin Airport with some of his army mates.
The reasons for joining the British Army had nothing to do with any kind of political affiliation. These guys want action and normally have done very badly at school. The French Foreign Legion is actually very choosey as they have far more applicants than places available. The British Army has extremely low entry requirements so it is no surprise that people with few other options in life join it.Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 08:47 PMIn part methinks this reflects improved relations due to NI being resolved and the consequent lessening of the taboo surrounding joining this profession down here.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 09:11 PMAidan @ 09:47 PM:
Which mainly goes to show that yer young feller from Clare is little different in motivation from his (or her) opposite number in Coventry or Carlisle.
There’s the old recruiting slogan from ten thousand tee-shirts: Join the Army: see the world, meet interesting people—and kill them.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 09:13 PMConchubhair O Liathain ,
‘’If they want to join an army, they should join the Irish Army, whose main role is peace keeping rather than warmongering. ‘
You miss the point COL - The Irish Army recruits very few to it’s ranks . Those who are academically not inclined find it easier to join the British Army . Would you prefer these lads to use their energy on the unemployment lines or earning minimum wage in McDonalds ?
Perhaps the Irish Army should double or treble in size and then these lads could join their ‘own ‘ army ? Anyway I’ve met many of these ex BA men from the Republic both here and in the UK and the vast majority of them have done better with their lives than had they perhaps stayed on ‘civvie’ street. It may not be politically correct to say it but ‘civvy street’ does not suit everybody.
‘The French Foreign Legion is actually very choosey as they have far more applicants than places available.’
True and traditionally they’ve been able to recruit many Germans and British looking for an escape route from a previous life .
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 09:35 PMQuite a few Britishers have joined the IRA, including some Britsh soldiers. Funny old game as ‘arry Redknapp might say.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 09:40 PMLots of Irish served in the British Army and RAF in the war against European fascism. I’m delighted that people will voluntarily put themselves in harm’s way to protect us from religious oppression and armed blackmail, and proud that soldiers from these islands usually behave in a professional and humane way.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:02 PMMembers of republican familys in the north find it near impossible to join the Irish army (for security reasons) although the british army will glady except them, tis is a strange world.
I like Bill Hicks take on it
“anyone dumb enough who wants to be in the military should be allowed to join”Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:18 PMI have a couple of friends that served in the Foreign Legion, there’s fun to be had late on of an evening with drink on board just by shouting “A la Gauche” and watch them tense up.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:24 PMMac,
mac ,
‘I failed my Leaving and decided to lump in with the other dullard Paddies in the Irish Guards while the best and brightest went to serve their country in the Irish Army’
So the ‘leaving cert ‘ separates the dullards from the not so dull ? I must mention that to my pal Larry K who left school at 15 and now is a multi millionaire with homes in Dublin , Florida and France . Probably one of the sharpest and most focused people I’ve ever had the pleasure to know.
‘Note the areas in Dublin with the poorest standards of education retain the strongest traditions of sending soldiers to fight for the British Army: Finglas, Cabra, Tallaght, Ballyfermot (where Ian Malone the ‘Irish’ fatality in Iraq was from).’
Is that so ? So no culchies joined up then eh ? Would these above areas be the same ones that provide Ireland with it’s Olympic medals ?
The Dubliner
From Waterloo to Bastapol I’ve charged the foreign snipers
And left me blood on distant soil from Colenso down to Wypers
At Easter week I reached me peak in my own native town .
Though cannons blazed it took five days before they wore us down !
Thus Fusilier or Volunteer as the mood or memory rouses -
Yet a peaceable lar who likes a jar (so a curse on both their houses )Oh we’re the Dubs -the rub a dub Dubs
And we’re a breed apart
Don’t give two shits for Gaels or Brits
No malice in our heart
So come what may on Judgement Day
The saints will sing our praises
No other place can boast a race
On first name terms with Jaysus !Just as well Dublin has these lads who know how to fight . They may come in handy if the country ever has to fight for it’s freedom again . IIRC at Easter 1916 most of the culchies stayed in bed because it was raining ! James Connolly’s Irish Citizen Army did most of the fighting .
These lads also helped secure the Irish Free State by defeating the Irregulars in the Civil War and they’ll defeat any Irregulars if there is ever another :)
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:26 PMAnd of course, more Dubliners died on the Western Front in one hour of one day than were killed in the entirety of Dublin during Easter Week, thanks to poison gas. Typical Dubs trying to hog the limelight.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:42 PMSee the latest fatality in Afghanistan, from 1 RIR was from Co. Cavan. The Irish Regiments of the British Army are fighting terror worldwide. It’s an easy option to join the joke that constitutes the Irish “defence forces”. A lot harder to join a real army that knows what real war constitutes.
Don’t compare the farcical Bilkoesque Irish ‘army’ with real soldiers.Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:48 PMDon’t compare the farcical Bilkoesque Irish ‘army’ with real soldiers.
Real soldiers don’t murder their own citizens as the British Army did in Derry in 1972.....
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 10:54 PMConcubhar
I don’t recall any murder convictions against any of 1 Para on that day. they were fighting back.
You might want to look at the Deputy First Minister, who murdered a female protestant census collector in that very city.Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:02 PMI dont understand how u can swear an oath to someone who has no respect for you?
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:14 PMDriftwood
Why do you call the Irish Defence Forces farcical and Bilkoesque? Have you thought out reasons for that or is it just a gut feeling?
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:20 PMI find the idea that the Irish “army” is willing to accept only more educated recruits very funny.
They are never going to serve in any war, so largely symbolic posers. a bit like the (landlocked) Bolivian Navy.
Those who join the British Army know they will have to fight against the Taliban, and other terrorist groups like PIRA in the past. That requires courage. But maybe the Irish navy and airforce need that as well. ROFL.Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:23 PMConfused
the purpose of the Oirish army is what?
In an international conflict they know they would need UK forces (under NATO) to defend them.
The Home Guard they have at present are going to defend ‘Eire’ against who or what?Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:29 PM‘It’s an easy option to join the joke that constitutes the Irish “defence forces”.’
See Concubhar, I told you it was coming.
Fact is the irish DF are a real army but we have little idiots thinking that because the budget, manpower or capability of the DF is laughable compared to more ‘grander’ nations, combined with the fact Ireland has no colonial history staining it that real soldiering is only done with killing people. Quite obviously Drift has never served, never worn a beret, except maybe one of those Ulster resistance ones, and so, my prediction was correct. Drift would do well to compare the face of a Liberian when he sees an Irish soldier and compare it to the face of an Iraqi when he sees a british one.Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:30 PMDriftwood
I don’t know what their purpose is, I am sure the have a website or leaflets available which set out their purpose. The question remains though as to why you describe them as farcical and Bilkoesque.
Posted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:32 PMRS
Served
In the British sense, not the nonsensical Irish presence in LebanonPosted by on Sep 05, 2008 @ 11:39 PM
