Wednesday, September 19, 2007
Meeting about meeting?
Fair Deal referenced the possibility of a new unionist party in his “Party manoeuvres” post and tonight, according to the BBC, just such a potential gathering is taking place in Moygashel.
Pete Baker @ 06:47 PM
How about a new Onionist party. Layers of sectarian bile and thin skins. Good luck and good riddance.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 07:55 PMAcquifier or perhaps an ononist party?
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:02 PMWell this is a least a start whether or not a new party is formed is of course not yet clear. I have no doubt that there would be an uphill struggle for any new unionist party. There is also I am sure a constituency for it but I have no idea how big that constituency would be. Remember though how everyone dismissed Paisley as out of touch and yesterday’s man when the GFA was signed. I can still remember the PUP and UDP laughing at him. It did, however, take quite a while for the DUP to defeat the UUP and that was despite comming from a much stronger base than any new party.
A big challenge if a new party is formed would be maintaining momentum and a public profile. A few early defections would help but I doubt many big names will come.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:05 PMTurgon
Undoubtedly there is support for the position of the new party. A perusal of the recent vox pop in the Ballymena Guardian (not online) showed that of 6 people interviewed 6 showed hostility (of varying degrees) to the new Executive. However there is a difference between being opposed to the Exec and being willing to vote for a fringe group. After all, many of these unionists will still want to keep the DUP strong despite having a lot of reservations about its strategy.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:09 PMThis gathering is destined to fail. Like it or not, unionism has moved decisively, as the DUP’s considerable mandate in March 2007 indicates.
The calibre- Allister apart, and he has prior form- of those resigning from the DUP since then will hardly have the party quaking.
More like a case of dead wood and the embarrasingly sectarian extreme elements clearing off into the abyss.
Good riddance. This is actually a sign of real progress and should be celebrated as such.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:13 PMSlug,
I agree entirely. I am not sure how willing people will be to damage the DUP if such damage is seen as likely to help SF. Clearly the DUP will major on this being a problem. They will of course raise fears of vote splitting etc.Any new party if it is to be relevant would have to quickly advance out of North Antrim which seems its most likely inital base. As I said an up hill struggle for many reasons. There would also of course be the question of which elections to contest and when.
The only other possibility (and I think it is a remote one) is that if the new party started looking serious the sight of it might affect the DUP sucession and the behaviour of any new leader. I suspect the lure of power is too strong for that though.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:18 PMI suspect there is more grass-roots hostility to the moves made by DUP and Paisley earlier this year than many here realise. Yes its a minority of unionism - and that’s the decisive shift. But its not insignificant.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:19 PMSlug there are 8 DUP disaffected. Thats quite significant!
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:30 PMAnother gang of own goalers who will make unionism even more foreign to England than at present, without gaining a single new vote for the union. Sinn Fein will be smiling like cheshire cats.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:33 PMAquifer
How so? They have their own worries, with FF and the SDLP hook up.Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:41 PMTurgon -
“The only other possibility (and I think it is a remote one) is that if the new party started looking serious the sight of it might affect the DUP sucession and the behaviour of any new leader. I suspect the lure of power is too strong for that though”
I would be intersted if you can expand on thre impact of a fledgling new party on the DUP succession - for example which of the young pretenders do you think it promote/damage the most, supposing it were on track to have 2-3 in the assembly?
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 08:56 PMBretagne
My (unsolicited) view is that currently Robinson is strongly placed to take over but if this group became a threat the chances of Dodds would improve.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 09:00 PMFrom conversations i have had over the past year I believe there are quite a number of traditional DUP voters and members unhappy with the DUP approach. However the majority of them are long time supporters of Paisley and don’t want to be seen to be critical of him given his record over the last 40 years. If it had been any other member of the party the St Andrews Agreement wouldn’t have seen the light of day.
The recent decision by the church to by pass him is an interesting development and may well signal a growing level of discontent among his traditional supporters. The move may indeed give new boldness to those seeking to establish a new party.Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 09:01 PMBretagne,
I am not and have never been a member of the DUP. I have been in no party since I left the UUP years ago so in a way I am not a good person to ask
I suspect slug’s view is pretty accurate. Remember that Dodds also has some West of the Bann credibility having been educated in Fermanagh. He has been careful not to be too closely associated with the love in. Gregory Campbell is a possibility and would be helped by fear of a new party but I suspect would not get it.
I would be interested in how a new party would start to fight elections especially if there was a Westminister election soon. That could allow them to stand in a number of seats occupied by high profile DUP deal supporters (lundies?) without being accused of vote splitting which could allow in nationalists.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 09:18 PMWhat about the prospect of Allister running against Paisley in North Antrim that would be an interesting one.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 10:17 PMMoygashel?
The venue kind of sums up the party.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 10:25 PMLet’s see how the party holds together when Paisley stands down/dies. That’ll be interesting.
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 10:26 PM“Any new party if it is to be relevant would have to quickly advance out of North Antrim”
in an easterly direction…... :-)
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 10:29 PMTurgon
“I have no doubt that there would be an uphill struggle for any new unionist party.”
I suppose the question about a new unionist party is, why? What would their objective be? To bring down the executive? I understand that there are unionists out there who are finding our new dispensation very hard to deal with emotionally, but putting the head before the heart for a moment - can any unionist really come to the dispassionate conclusion that a new unionist party bringing down the executive would be a good thing for unionism?I think most people now understand that the British government would deal most punitively with unionism in such a scenario.
Again, I know there are unionists who are very upset that 8 May happened, but it DID happen, and we’re in a new world now.
What would a new, nay-saying unionist party achieve, other than providing a home for cranks and bigots to moan about how unfair the world is?
Posted by on Sep 19, 2007 @ 11:55 PMI think it’s inevitable that some form of anti-DUP grouping will emerge eventually. That’s not to say that it will sweep the country tomorrow. After all Paisleyism began as just another populist brand of Independent Unionism in the steps of JW Nixon, Tommy Henderson, etc., and in opposition to a distant and unresponsive unionist elite. (Ultimately the UUP was able to manage this dissent in the Stormont era but there is no doubt that the dissent influenced what the UUP in Stormont could and could not do). Even if the Allister people remain a minor force in terms of votes and seats, I wonder what influence they would have on DUP policy.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:00 AMThis new grouping which is possibly going to be formed from the malcontents in the DUP and others around Northern Ireland need to take some advice from those that have had experience of ex DUP MEP Jim Allister. Unless everyone says and does what he wants to happen, and when he has got all the publicity he hopes to get against his much hated ex leader Paisley with their help, he will up sticks as he has done twice before while in the DUP. Looking at it from the outside this seems to be all about revenge rather than substantive issues, a lot of people may not like the optics or the forced system of Government, but the Executive is delivering and as it will continue to do so this grouping will become less relevant.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:36 AMLets spit the Unionist vote even more well done Mr Allistair we call call the new party Democratic split Unionist Party
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:38 AMInterested Observer:
‘What about the prospect of Allister running against Paisley in North Antrim that would be an interesting one.’
He would have to resign his MEP seat if he were to win Nth Antrim. I’m pretty sure I’m right in saying that it would then fall to the DUP to nominate his successor for Brussels!Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:39 AMHa, ha and again ha….Allister, Cubbitt, Willie Frazer(!) - what a spectacularly discontented bunch of refusenik flat-earthers. Off you go lads - please form as many parties as you see fit. No doubt you’ll be signing up all of the intellectual unionist heavyweights of the day - Willie McCrea, Robin Stirling, Willie Ross, Willie Thompson and every other biggoted, bog-trotting bumpkin in ‘the province’.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 07:30 AM“He would have to resign his MEP seat if he were to win Nth Antrim. I’m pretty sure I’m right in saying that it would then fall to the DUP to nominate his successor for Brussels!”
In that hypothetical situation, there would have to be an election. The DUP could no more nominate a successor than he could. Don’t you think they would already have replaced him if they had any say in the matter! There is no list system in N Ireland.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 07:47 AM
