Wednesday, June 28, 2006
McGuinness: Free Presbyterian Taliban…
Martin McGuinness is clearly gunning for the DUP in the propaganda war. His latest line is to characterise the Free Presbyterians in the DUP as the Taliban. Hmmm… Can’t see it taking off somehow… The wider news agenda is likely to throw the comparison into an awkward light: for example, here and here.
Mick Fealty @ 06:04 AM
pith
Fine. What element isn’t Presbyterian then? I just though you were going to trot out the line about how long Paisley was moderator of the FPC.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:03 PMThis poor wee ex-catholic head of mine is all aspin after that dip into the intricacies of Free P’ism etc.
Now I never mentioned Henry VII, so there wasn’t a theme to my reasoning at all TAFKABO - was a simple question that I posed, not a sweeping statement on the direction of the reformed churches.
But now I don’t get the Henry VII thing - did he or didn’t he do it to get his hands on another woman?
Pith - thanks for the recap on the IOO. I agree with ye - time travelling is probably beyond the good doctor (although I’m not too sure if he doesn’t have the immortality thing going on).
And in conclusion - an extremely daft outburst from Marty McG to bring the Taliban into it - is he trying to get them a bad name or something?Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:09 PMLoyalist,
I dunno. Ask Free Presbyterian the Rev. Mrs. Whatshername.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:29 PMCircles.
The theme is that Nationalists (at least in my interactions with them online) tend to fixate upon a detail, and this becomes a pretext for dismissing the whole.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 01:32 PMyeah we are fixated on the detail that papadoc and most like him are a bunch of raving idiot bigots.
is that clear enough?.
by the way, David McIlveen makes me vomit out of my
eyes.Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 03:32 PMThe last time I was in Martyrs Memorial Church it had as many statues as an RC Chapel, maybe their closer than we all think, Free P’s and RC’s.
Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 03:41 PMTAFKABO - I think you’re drawing your circle a wee bit too small. Its not just nationalists who fixate on a detail to facilitate the rejection of the whole.
For example the DUP (and you don’t get less nationalists than that) have based their poltical agenda on this. The confirmation of the destruction of IRA arms must have seriously shaken up their perception of reality - but then again, many of them said this was all just a spoof anyway (and the earth is of course flat).
But thats a bit off-topic now…..Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 04:42 PMFrom my recollection, the DUP position was that all arms had not been destroyed, as we had been told.
Seems to me they weren’t exactly wrong about that.Posted by on Jun 28, 2006 @ 06:20 PMcybez
It’s called the Martyrs Memorial and they are memorials to heroes of the Protestant Reformation/Martyrs.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 07:07 AMWoof
In relation to David McIlveen, I think you are being very unfair. Some time ago I was in hospital and even though I was not a Free Presbyterian (though I am married to one) David McIlveen called to see me nearly as often as my own minister did - he is a very kind and caring man.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 07:09 AMChris,
The 2nd commandment from the Bible (Exodus 20:4-6 Deuteronomy 5:8-10) the book from which which the Free P’s quote so often, reads…“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”
“You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
“Do not make for yourselves images of anything in heaven or on earth or in the water under the earth. Do not bow down to any idol or worship it, because I am the LORD your God and I tolerate no rivals. I bring punishment on those who hate me and on their descendants down to the third and fourth generation. But I show my love to thousands of generations of those who love me and obey my laws.”
with the amount of idols/images/memorials in that church surely it is breaking that commandment.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 09:00 AMI don’t think they bow down to these images in the Martyrs Church! It’s a memorial with a framed biog. underneath each person’s bust. I think its in the same vein as the reformation monument in Geneva.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 09:56 AMIt’s the big man they bow down to.I don’t know any Free P’s that would ever say a bad word about Dr P.
I reckon most of them are brainwashed as are most of the so called “evangelical Christians” that occupy the pews and seats of churches throughout Northern Ireland Sunday after Sunday.One thing that amazes me is the amount of sermons these people hear and their response to what they hear.I’m sure the Taliban put into action what they’re taught, Free P’s?Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 10:40 AM“the Taliban tend to execute those who deviate from their standards”
Hmmm, but Sutton identifies some 715 deadly attacks by loyalist paramilitaries in which the sole or primary motive of the attackers was the victim’s religious belief.
Sounds like the comparison with the Taliban holds up pretty wll.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:16 PMBob
And how many by Republicans for exactly the same reason - oh how silly of me to forget, Republicans can’t be sectarian, it’s only Prods who are guilty of that particular sin.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:29 PMChristopher.
When Loyalist kill catholics, it’s sectarian.
When Republicans kill Protestants, it’s a detail.
Do keep up.
Yes, all those policemen were protestants, but that never figured for a moment in the minds of their killers.
And yes, I know that for ‘non sectarians’, Republicans have this uncanny knack of pointing out to me that I am protestant, but once they decide I am to be murdered, this slips completely from their minds.It would be churlish to think there was ever any connection.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:40 PM...and the KKK used the same argument to prove that Martin Luther King was ‘anti-white’.
Decent Protestants the world over are ashamed of what unionism and it’s goons did to debase their name.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:43 PMSee, the IRA and other republican killers are on the same level as Martin Luther King.
Me, on the other hand, well I’m scum in the eyes of the worlds protestants, who have been extensively polled by Lib2016.If I had a shred of decency I’d slit my own throat and save those sainted fellows the cost of a car journey to come and do the job themselves.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:46 PMTaf,
If you can’t take accept the fact of unionism’s massive unpopularity then you shouldn’t enter these discussions. Crybabies aren’t attractive, especially when they were such gleeful bullies in the past.
If you prefer to compare the IRA to it’s fraternal allies in the ANC and Adams to Mandela I would accept that as being fairer. You could compare the loyalist paramilitaries to their allies in the BNP of course, if you want to extend the metaphor. Sadly it’s difficult to find anyone who will admit to being an ally of Paisley.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:54 PM“When Loyalist kill catholics, it’s sectarian.
When Republicans kill Protestants, it’s a detail.”
I am citing Sutton’s analysis Who also identifies 155 sectarian killings by republican paramilitary groups, 21 by the INLA and 134 by the PIRA.
Sorry if you disagree with the analysis, but do take it up with Sutton and the people from both communities who worked with him.
“Yes, all those policemen were protestants, but that never figured for a moment in the minds of their killers.”
Nope, those policemen, whatever their religious belief, were combatants in a war zone. Fair game at any time. Sorry about that but soldiers and paramilitarized police—like the RUC and the Gestapo—are legitimate targets.
“And yes, I know that for ‘non sectarians’, Republicans have this uncanny knack of pointing out to me that I am protestant, but once they decide I am to be murdered, this slips completely from their minds.
And, I haven’t noticed nationalist or republican posters making any comment about your religious belief despite all the posts you place on the board. As for myself, this is the first thought I have ever given to your religious belief and, to be honest, I couldn’t care less about it. I dare say I speak for most of the posters here when I say that.
Yeah, it is sorta churlish for you to think there’s any connection.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 01:59 PMlib2016
Problem of course with the ANC analogy is that the ANC were fighting FOR majority rule. The IRA and the Shinners have been fighting against it for 35 years.
If people are judged by the company they keep, then Sinn Fein is damned - Ghadaffi, the PLO, ETA, the FARC - doesn’t come much scummier that that. If the Provo campaign wasn’t sectarian how do you account for Darkley, Kingsmills, even La Mon, which Gerry Adams authorised?
It might suit your twisted agenda to attempt to draw analogies with Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela, but they are utterly false. If Gerry Adams is to be compared to anyone its Yasser Arafat.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 02:01 PMBob
Where people praying in a church fair game? What about people attending a dog show? Did they deserve to die also? Comments like yours show me the true nature of the republican mindset - its utterly disgusting.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 02:04 PMIf you can’t take accept the fact of unionism’s massive unpopularity then you shouldn’t enter these discussions. Crybabies aren’t attractive, especially when they were such gleeful bullies in the past.
How far up yourself are you exactly?
I’m well aware that Unionists are massively unpopular to Republicans and their supporters (that completely non sectarian)murder campaign got that message across.
I just find it bizzare that you are so self absorbed as to think the whole world has even heard of Ireland, nevermind Unionists.
I had a conversation with a woman last night, lived in france all her life, well educated, legal secretary, cultured (in that middle class french way) and extremely interested in matters of politics and religion (she being Moslem).
Guess what?
She was surprised that I wasn’t a catholic, since she thought there were only catholics in Ireland.This story has been repeated I don’t know how many times since I moved here.
Trust me on this.The whole world doesn’t think the way you think the whole world thinks.If you prefer to compare the IRA to it’s fraternal allies in the ANC and Adams to Mandela I would accept that as being fairer. You could compare the loyalist paramilitaries to their allies in the BNP of course, if you want to extend the metaphor. Sadly it’s difficult to find anyone who will admit to being an ally of Paisley.
Here’s another salient point that you don’t get.
Republicans play the appropriation game, no one else does.
Ever wonder why?
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 02:04 PMBob McGowan
“Nope, those policemen, whatever their religious belief, were combatants in a war zone.”
Bob somehow knows exactly what went through the mind of every republican gunman/bomber. Hmmmmm.
“combatants in a war zone.”
When was this war declared? Who by? Was it within the limitations of the UN Charter?
“like the RUC and the Gestapo”
Care to provide the location of the gas chambers the RUC sent people to? Or are you just coming up with crazed comparisons to justify murder?
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 02:08 PMfair_deal
Now, now, don’t go questioning Bob’s comparisons, he’s so much more enlightened and non-sectarian that Unionist lumpenproletariat like us, perhaps that explains why he has not deigned to answer my questions about La Mon, Darkley or Kingsmills.
Posted by on Jun 29, 2006 @ 02:10 PM
