Saturday, March 01, 2008
McCord and the sash his father wore…
JUSTICE campaiger Raymond McCord - who son was murdered by a UVF gang that included police informers - last night became the first unionist to address a Sinn Fein ard fheis. Wearing his father’s Orange Order sash, McCord told republicans that whereas Gerry Adams had kept to his promise to raise the case of McCord’s son in Downing Street, unionist MP Jeffrey Donaldson failed to name the killers in Parliament. The News Letter reported that Mr Donaldson said he pledged to name the killers if Mr MrCord, who received a loyalist death threat a few days ago, brought inconclusive evidence - but that it never came. That’s certainly never stopped members of Mr Donaldson’s former or current parties before. Mr Donaldson said Mr McCord should “reflect on his new bedfellows and look at the record of the IRA for murder and destruction and ask himself: ‘Are these the people best able to deal with the circumstances surrounding the murder of his son?’” The answer could well be ‘yes’, because there is an almost complete lack of interest amongst unionist politicians about loyalist violence against Protestants. In fact, since the IRA ceasefire, by far the biggest terrorist threat to Protestants has been loyalist paramilitary groups.
Belfast Gonzo @ 02:05 PM
Stop your MOPEry, Jake!
As for terrorist conferences,P & J, I believe that the Ulster Resistance Red Berets are due to have one soon after a two year sabbatical-but this time the venue definitley won’t be Clontibret. It’s kinda funny that Peter The Punt has ended up being the Minister Of Finance-payback time, I suppose..
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 10:16 PMaustin: its about exposing double standards - peter robinson becoming minister of finance is an example of one but so is martin mcguinness becoming the deputy first minister responsible for putting together a policy on victims, many of whom he helped create as chief of staff and then northern commander of the ira.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 10:22 PMNever seen up your hole written down before. Great stuff.
We are where we are. People need to deal with it. It might well be unpalatable, but it’s better than what we had before.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 10:25 PMJake, -stop the MOPEry man!!!
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 10:26 PMI have to laugh at Peace & Justice, he forgot the rest of his name.....for Protestants only. There is a lot of typical unionist hypocrisy going on here as usual. They condemn Mr McCord but are quite happy to use the McCartney’s and Quinn’s to score cheap political points. Both these families deserve justice but the way they have been manipulated and used for political purposes has alienated them from many within the nationalist community who were originally sympathetic and supportive. I would agree with an earlier poster that the links between certain Unionist politicians, M15 and Loyalist terrorists should be explored but maybe in the year 2525 will the truth come out. It is terrible that Raymond McCord has been abandoned by Unionist politicians more interested in ignoring collusion than justice for the McCord family.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 11:42 PMPeace and justice for Prods (it suits)
I guess you couldn’t take the challenge!
I have no problem with any ‘truths’, in fact am eager for it all to out, even some of the laughably immature ones that you have a penchance to come out with on occasion.
Now how’s about actually addressing the subject matter in hand. I would actually be interested in your take on it, do people in your community not deserve some answers here? Please comment on the issues at hand, then whatabout all you like.
Posted by on Mar 01, 2008 @ 11:53 PMTo Billy - are you related to John Hume? He had the single transferable speech and you have the single transferable post. Never attacking Sinn Fein PIRA death squads members who are now in power yet claiming to be some sort of model citizen!
As for the other comments, the truth must hurt. Pan-Nationalists have given a platform to murdering terrorists via their votes - yet everyone else is to blame.
I already have said that I sympathise with Raymond McCord. But asking for help at a conference for Sinn Fein PIRA death squad members seems very strange indeed.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 01:12 AMI’ve had to clip quite a bit of the comments here for playing the man. It would be good if others on here tried to hold the line a little more robustly.
LURIG:
That’s a familiar line, but it’s not one that has anything like universal agreement or support. For instance, Catherine McCartney’s book Walls of Silence gives quite a different impression of the same set of events, and is well worth the read. Her contrast of what the Sinn Fein leadership was saying to her and her sisters in private, with the party’s public line is particularly interesting.
She claims the sisters were told quite candidly that the IRA was powerless to take any action against the perpetrators since they had extensive family connections within the Short Strand community. The offer to shoot the ‘volunteers’ the IRA believed to have been behind the killing of their brother only came later.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 01:16 AMStrange P&J;but undestandable when you consider he was being stonewalled by politicians from his own community who seem to care more about political point scoring than the actual truth
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 02:53 AM“PeaceandJustice”
You lecturing anyone on a single transferrable post - what a joke. If 99 Catholics were burned out of their homes in 1 night + 1 Protestant had a window broken, your post would consist totally of a whinge about how the Protestant was treated and how the Catholics deserved what they got.
Let’s face it - that’s your one + only theme.
My views have never and will never change - I unreservedly condemn ANY and ALL terrorism. I treat all victims equally irrespective of religion.
I have never supported or voted for any party that supports terrorism.
I have never supported terrorism and you will NOT find any posting of mine that is ambiguous in any way about my views on terrorism.
GET IT!!
On the other hand, 99% of your posts are about Sinn Fein, the IRA or Catholics in general.
You only mention “loyalist” terrorism when challenged and, even then, your “criticisms” are ambiguous and half-hearted (just like McCrea’s).
I’m sure that many Unionist people here oppose my views - fair enough but you are the only one stupid enough to claim that I am some sort of supporter of Sinn Fein and/or the IRA or Republican terrorism.
On the other hand, it’s obvious that your pretence of being opposed to “loyalist” terrorism hasn’t fooled anyone. It’s hardly surprising as you are so open in your whatboutery and never ever discuss “loyalist” terrorism in any depth - even when it’s the topic in question.
You gloss over “loyalist” terrorism and try to pretend it’s non-existent and then go off on one of your frequent anti-Catholic rants.
I’m glad to see that a number of other posters on this topic have challenged your blatent whataboutery.
You are a revisionist and effectively an apologist for “loyalist” terrorism.
If you don’t like what I post - tough. That’s how it is when you try to defend the indefensible actions of terrorists.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 05:09 AMBilly,
Like I said, “It would be good if others on here tried to hold the line a little more robustly.”
I know that can be hard if we’ve been affected by the troubles in some direct way. But I always presume that someone reading Slugger will have suffered just as badly or worse.
I’m all for vigorous rejoinders but let’s keep it on subject and, if we can, leave whether people like us or not to one side for the moment?
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 07:31 AMThe episode regarding Raymond McCord’s murder and his father’s fight for justice is very distressing.
This young man was murdered by a terrorist organisation; it seems that many are aware of who murdered him but that there is inadequate evidence to prosecute them. It is just the same as the murder of Thomas Devlin, Paul Quinn and quite possibly Lisa Dorrian along with countless others from the recent and more distant past.
Mr. McCord is clearly desperate for justice and is willing to do anything to keep up pressure for this to happen. Whilst I suspect it will be unproductive and possibly even counter productive for him to have attended the SF meeting and wear a collarette; I do not condemn his attempts to get justice. I do not think it will work, I do not think it will help and I think he will be used politically.
I also think it may be unfair to complian about Jeffrey Donaldson on this as we do not know how much real evidence Mr. McCord has been able to give him. However, However, what else is this man who lost his son to do? Of course he will clutch at straws. And yes of course SF will make rather distasteful political propaganda out of it: what else do people expect?
Without wishing to make too much of a political point this episode helps encapsulate where we now are. What we have is an unpeace: not conflict but not peace either. We congratulate ourselves about an end to violence but we have suspended coporate civic morality to gain this. I have previously accussed certain parties of a Faustian pact. Maybe the reality is we have all partaken of it and the likes of Mr. McCord, the Dorrian, Devlin, McCartney and Quinn families are the victims along with how many more? Not a particularly uplifting thought for Mother’s Day.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 09:38 AMIt was brave for McCord to go to address Sinn Fein however he forgets if it hasd not been for a viscious IRA campaign in the first place then nobody would have died inh the first palce form any side!
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 10:12 AMProblem with that remark T & J is that it gives a totally mistaken impression of who was responsible for the early deaths in the Troubles.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 10:15 AMPeaceandJustice “Agreed. On your point about the state and various paramilitaries, the role of the Republic of Ireland also needs to be examined i.e. how Sinn Fein PIRA was setup, armed and then sheltered while they carried out their murder campaign.”
Well said, and the role the Gardai played over the border when the bogside blocked themselves in, should be investigated too.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 10:28 AMPeaceandJustice“And of course the majority of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland have given Sinn Fein PIRA a platform through their votes - thereby associating themselves with these murderers.”
Correct. 1/4 of N.Ireland’s population supports Republican terrorists. It’s a sad statistic, but then again when these people are told that Protestants behaved like Nazi’s by both a Roman Catholic Priest and the Irish President, what else can we expect?
Brainwashing the Catholics in N.Ireland, so Protestants are demonised and legitimacy given to voting for Republican terrorists is being organised from the very top of Roman Catholic Irish society. It’s not enough that they’ve brainwashed the Irish Republic for centuries, they have to start twisting history in N.Ireland too.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 10:39 AMUlsters my homeland.....whose homeland was it before your ancestors?????
P&J;, remember nobody cheers for the schoolyard bully in a fight, now compare international support for irish nationalism and your unionist cause, and tell me im lying !
harsh truths, harsh truths
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:04 AM“Ulsters my homeland.....whose homeland was it before your ancestors????? ”
The Ulster people
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:11 AMfor ‘ulster people’ read ‘the irish’.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:15 AM‘The Ulster people’?????
err, thanks for that incisive and informative answer, UMH.
Lucky you covered your back there otherwise some people might have suspected you hadn’t got a baldy notion.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:17 AMWhat amazes me is that the unionist people and politicians voted by a large majority to go into power and accept sinn fien and chuckle with the chuckies! But when a grieving father speaks about what happened to his son concerning collusion between loyalist killers and the british state the unionist politicians and community condemn him for talking with sinn fien??
Do any unionist bloggers on this site honestly say that the unionist politicians have done ANYTHING in addressing loyalist killers who were and are paid by the british state.
The only people who have talked about it are republicans. Not because they made it up and its just happened to republicans but because it happened and is still happening now to both sides of the community.
If the unionist people and politicians have a problem with my father fight for justice then maybe they should address the issue of collusion and not worry about losing votes from loyalist killers and their supporters.
Or why dont the unionist politicians support any other unionist family who have a loved one murdered by paid loyalist killers? Im sure they must want justice for any murder and not just republican murders.
The truth is the unionist politicians and people have ignored all the families from both communities who have had a loved one murdered by the likes of haddock. Not because they dont believe it but because they think it makes them a bad unionist to blacken the british state by exposing the collusion with loyalist killers.
I would like any unionist to answer one simple question WHY WONT THE UNIONIST POLITICIANS HELP OR SUPPORT ANY FAMILY AFFECTED BY PAID LOYALIST KILLERS AND THE UNIONIST PEOPLE STILL VOTE FOR THEM???
As for any orangeman being offended by the wearing of the collarette why? It was his fathers and is proud to show that he comes from a strong unionist family and the I.R.A. members accepted that with applause. Would the same respect be given to a republican at a d.u.p. conference??
If an orangeman is offended by a unionist father speaking the truth about paid loyalist killers wearing HIS fathers collarette then maybe they should look at the loyalist killers wearing the sash on the 12th and explain.Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:21 AMTruth and Justice, Peace and Justice, Ulsters my homeland I think youre all are missing the point here. A protestant is going to Sinn Féin to seek justice for the murder of his son. His son being an ex-RAF man. Why arent the unionist politicians interested in helping him out? Explain that?
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 11:30 AMPeaceAndJustice:
He had the single transferable speech and you have the single transferable post.
I hereby nominate you for the Paul Berry irony award. Make a speech!
Raymond McCord is a brave man, braver than all the elected unionist politicians put together, pursuing his cause and refusing to shut up despite ongoing death threats against him. Unionists, who say they oppose terrorism, should be standing up for this man if for no reason other than that he pursues his objectives against a background of threats of violence.
What’s ironic is that the justification used whenever Willie McCrea took to a podium with Billy Wright was that he was merely standing against a threat of violence against a constituent. So seemingly they can stand with an active murderer, but they can’t stand in solidarity with a victim ?
Regarding the point about naming names in the House of Commons, I find this to be a pretty base practice irrespective of why it is done or whom is named. Nonetheless, it is telling how unionists apply different standards depending on whom is involved. I remember specifically two individuals being named some years ago for IRA involvement by a DUP MP, claims which were subsequently denied by Ronnie Flanagan.
Ulsters my homeland:
Can you explain to me why the unionists in South Antrim re-elected William McCrea after he had taken to a podium with Billy Wright, or in the same constituency, why they elected David Burnside despite his history of writing article(s) in UDA magazines ? Can you explain why unionists endorsed Paisley despite Ulster Resistance and the Third Force ?
Getting down to a few facts, Sinn Fein’s vote prior to the IRA ceasefire was circa 12.5%. Willie McCrea and Peter Robinson, both of whom have been seen or have admitted meeting with Billy Wright, topped the poll in their respective constituencies . What gives ?
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 12:10 PMComrade,
not looking to start an argument or deflect the topic (just want to satisfy my curiosity), but can you explain (or preferably link to something explaining) “despite his history of writing article(s) in UDA magazines”.
Must’ve been before my time I’m afraid.
If you prefer, please feel free to email it to (my name) at everythingulster.com or use the EU contact form.
Cheers.
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 12:38 PMthere is no monopoly on suffering,to listen to unionist and sdlp politicians you would believe that the mccartneys and the quinns where the only families that have suffered....
The McCords and the Dorrian families will not get a campaign funded and supported by the above parties because they`re not interested…
theres no political gain…
sad but true!!
Every family be they nationalist, loyalist or security force families have a right to closure.
As to the comments of peaceandjustice and that other person who was concerned about…
hold yer breathe an orange collarette, pure and utter hypocrites comes to mind..
As to ulsters my homeland....apart from knowing more than the likes of Jackson, Foster, Bew, Kee, etc, about the history of this Island, you have to really laugh at “his” make believe history of Ulster!!
Does the uda combat mag still have cartoons!!!
Posted by on Mar 02, 2008 @ 01:35 PM
