Wednesday, March 19, 2008
“major problems ahead..”
That’s the prediction of the deputy First minister, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness, on what will happen if the devolution of policing and justice powers is not completed by May in his interview with UTV’s Ken Reid - Direct streaming link here [wmv file]. He also denies having that conversation with Jonathan Powell. Of course, the deputy First Minister is still referring to May 2008 as a “deadline” rather than a ‘target date’.. And, as well as pointing to these comments, and these, he states that “It’s a big issue for Sinn Féin.” Indeed. Although he doesn’t predict what the SF leadership will say in response to that Ard Fheis motion..
Pete Baker @ 04:52 PM
baker why haven`t you mentioned all the past indiscretions of McGuinness’s`s past, surely they would be a factor in whatever he does now…
Isn`t he one of those callous Republicans!!!
Await one of your slugger alter-egos or lickspittles to reply?
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 06:18 PMmartin can stomp his little feet all he wants, P&J;will be devolved when the sovereign government of the UK decides it will.
and if that passes by martin’s little deadline, well sf will do what they do best: roll over and take it.
why would they break the habit of the last ten years.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 06:41 PMClearly there are rejectionist elements in Sinn Fein who wish to destroy devolution and, ultimately, the peace process. I hope that Gerry Adams can show the rejectionists the leadership to move things forward.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 07:02 PMThat’s a very unoptimistic spin you’re putting on that, Pete.
The interview was over 10 minutes long and McGuiness kept repeatedly saying that he was optimistic about the future of the institutions. He pointed out that, if the DUP and SF come to a major disagreement, then there is trouble ahead. That is simply stating the obvious. I found him confident that a way can be found to make things work.
The DUP have agreed that these powers should be devolved. My impression from them is that it is the same as setting up the assembly; have it delayed for a few months and they can claim a wonderful victory to their supporters.Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 07:47 PMThis is an excellent move by SF - if the DUP dont agree to devolution of police and justice SF will collapse the executive.
I wondered why DUP were a bit soft on their apparent veto - obviously this is the reason.
The DUP will also get the blame if SF do the collapse thing as both governements support it.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 07:56 PMIWSMcNWDI: The DUP will also get the blame if SF do the collapse thing as both governements support it.
Who will get the blame if SF collapse the Executive because they won’t wait a couple of months, or because they would rather hang on to the Army Council?
Anyway, didn’t SF go into St Andrew’s with the declared intention of making sure no-one could unilaterally collapse the Executive (again). Did they fail in that objective?
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:02 PMReader,
I thought that the rule change was that the Englezes couln’t collapse it - clealry if parties dont take part- then it is collapsed.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:07 PMI don’t believe for a moment that SF will collapse the Assembly if P&J;devolution is delayed for a few months. Look behind the public posturing. Any agreement on the final date will be (maybe even has been) agreed behind closed doors. There’s no longer a need for a backchannel.
It will happen.Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:11 PMJoe
I’m not inclined to future - optimistically or otherwise.
The interview is linked and anyone can watch it and take from it what they see and hear.
I’ve highlighted the points that seem relevant.
Such as the deputy First Minister’s seeming confusion over ‘target dates’ and ‘deadlines’.. again.
As for “have it delayed for a few months and they can claim a wonderful victory to their supporters.”
Fine for the DUP. But for SF? That’s where the Ard Fheis motion comes into play.. and whatever the SF leadership had previously told their party members.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:15 PMConnected - which Party’s spokesman said within the past two years that it would be a generation before SF could even be considered for partnership in Government.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:15 PMJoeCanuck,
neither do I think they will collapse it - but I was wondering why SF were not bothered about DUP’s ‘veto’ - now its clear why - they have them by short and curlies with a bigger veto of their own.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:17 PMBut for SF?
It can’t have escaped your notice, Pete, that they play the long game.
As for procedural difficulties within their own Party, Adams and McGuiness have showed themselves to be masters at overcoming those. New resolution?Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:24 PMSammy
“The DUP will also get the blame if SF do the collapse thing as both governements support it.”
Both governments, and the US btw, support the ‘target date’.
It’s not an enforceable ‘deadline’.
Any party that withdraws from the Executive.. would become the unofficial opposition.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:26 PMJoe
On this they played the short game. To meet an actual deadline - March last year.
And, relating to the Ard Fheis motion, they can’t re-cross that rubicon.
We’ll just have to wait and see what they say in May.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:30 PMWell, one reason that the Assembly won’t be collapsed is, to paraphrase Enoch Powell, at the end of the day all political parties that gain power become whores.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:33 PMPete - seriously what’s the big wow with you on this? Nothing else is done right or on time - why is this so critical?
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:35 PMi think that feelings and opinions of their membership is the last thing on sf’s leadership minds.
they certainly will not collapse the assembly, whatever would they do then? policing has been accepted by the ard fheis, they cannot go back on that.
so sf have put with it until PandJ is devolved, and maybe stamp their feet abit
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:36 PMDewi
“why is this so critical?”
It’s not. Not to me that is.
See harry’s comments.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:41 PMPete,
target date/deadline ? this is semantics, the 3 governements support the devolution in May - if the DUP dont go along with it they will be in breach of the spirit if not the letter of the STA if they dont have good cause.
Re. Permanent opposition - if the SDLP agreed with SF there would be no cross party support - hence collapse.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:49 PMYes, but hasn’t Bertie already accepted that there may be some slippage and that that wouldn’t be a great problem?
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:56 PMSammy
“this is semantics”
Erm, no it’s not.
The difference is whether that date is enforceable in any meaningful way - see previous post.
Imposing those powers against the wishes of the Assembly would be a “constitutional nonsense” - and, importantly, “it is not the intention—nor is the power available to the Government—to do that.”
“the 3 governements support the devolution in May”
They support it in principle, i.e. as a ‘target date’, but they have all acknowledged that there will be slippage - see Mary McAleese’s comments
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 08:57 PMIt’s been many months now since the brutal murder of Paul McQuinn and not a single person, north or south, has been invited to a police or garda station for a chat, to help the police in their inquiries.
That leaves me with a nauseating feeling that there is political interference at the highest levels.
The sooner P&J;powers are devolved, the better.Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 09:03 PMSorry, slip, Paul Quinn.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 09:05 PMPete, slippage is one thing - deliberate obstruction leading to delay because of fear of politcal opponents (TUV) or to show political muscle is another. If the spirit of STA is breeched then SF ( with SDLP support) can justifiably scupper the edifice. This reality will force the DUP’s hand to get their act together. SF/SDLP now have the real veto.
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 09:08 PMSF wont collapse the assembly they will force the DUP into collapsing it
And yes the DUP will be blamed and lose all political traction everywhere but in the brains of their closed minded supporters
Posted by on Mar 19, 2008 @ 09:10 PM
