Thursday, October 04, 2007
Lottery fund decision “absolute rubbish” - Paisley
Written on headed Commons paper, it denounced the grounds for turning down the grant bid as “absolute rubbish”. It also claimed, more than once, that Mr Sweeney’s visitor centre plans had the support of UNESCO, the UN body which oversees world heritage sites like the Causeway. It said: “ UNESCO saw and approved the plans, and were very impressed by the proposal.”
A claim which UNESCO have already denied. Another possible twist below the fold.
From the Belfast telegraph report
Mr Sweeney has spoken publicly about holding a highly-favourable meeting with senior UNESCO official Mechtild Rossler in 2001.
Ms Rossler has contested any suggestion of endorsement, and would not have had the authority to personally sign the organisation up to the project in any case.
She has made clear to the Belfast Telegraph that she would not support anything without going through the necessary UNESCO procedures.
She has also stated that UNESCO does not “decide on proposals” and that this would be a matter for Government bodies in the light of the UNESCO 2003 report.
Ms Rossler further said: “We were absolutely clear that any new visitor centre must be built in the footprint of the centre that was burnt down. That is my position and I am not moving one millimetre.”
A DUP source told the Belfast Telegraph that Mr Paisley Snr had met with a UNESCO official to discuss the Causeway situation.
Mr Sweeney’s proposals at the 2001 meeting differed in a key respect from those on the table by 2003. His 2001 blueprint was to have been located on Moyle Council’s land above the Causeway.
By 2003 - the time of Mr Paisley’s letter - his proposal was for an alternative location on his own land.
There is, potentially, a link with another recent controversy - which comes via Roger Stanyard in the Slugger comment zone here - and also brings DUP MLA Mervyn Storey back into the frame.
In a lengthy article on the links between DUP members and the young-Earthers the British Centre for Science Education points to the promotion of some of their non-evolutionary beliefs.
In a letter to the Belfast Newsletter [added link] published on 6th June 2006 George Dawson stated: “Over recent months myself and colleagues, David Simpson MP and Mervyn Storey MLA, have been pressing government on the need to ensure that interpretation at the new Causeway interpretative centre is inclusive of the views expressed by Rev Dr Greer and elaborated upon in the article by Dr Tas Walker. This is a matter of equality and tourism opportunity. In equality terms it is incumbent upon government not to discriminate against this equally scientific viewpoint and those who believe it.”
......In the original 3rd June 2006 article Greer claimed that the Causeway was formed 4,500 years ago during Noah’s flood. Greer pushed the pamphlet on the Causeway by Tas Walker of Answers in Genesis. Presumably Greer was angling to get Answers in Genesis material in the Causeway Centre. Greer’s arguments about the age of the Causeway, no doubt entirely lifted from the AiG material are risible. Science strongly suggests it was formed about 60-65 million years ago.
......The stakes for the creationists are very high. The Giant’s Causeway attracts some 500,000 visitors a year and is Northern Ireland’s largest tourist attraction. Both for school children studying geography or geology it is a major element in field studies. Getting creationism into the new Causeway visitor centre, believed to cost around £20 million, will be a huge coup for the creationists. No wonder they are putting so much effort into it. Again, it is exactly the same game being played by fundamentalists in the United States with the Grand Canyon.
A publicly funded Causeway Centre wouldn’t be as free to decide what materials were used in an intrepretive centre.
Pete Baker @ 11:11 AM
Quite scary to think that this province is being steered by a skipper who believes the Pole Star is only 6000 years old. I wonder how long he imagines it takes its light to reach the earth?
a. six years?
b. six months?
c. a fortnight?
Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 06:30 PMSir Herbert, That is very mean. DUP people always wipe their elbows.
Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 07:36 PMMore info coming into public domain.
What is position of SF,SDLP, UU, Alliance and Independents on this subject.
They are very quiet. Full inquiry is needed and DUP to tell us what is going on.Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 10:38 PMI hope UNESCO are kept up to date about this controversy.
We might need their help to keep the development in public hands and to be in accordance with their proposal for the site.Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 10:48 PMUlsterfan,
I agree. If anybody should be jumping up and down and threatening to nail the Paisleys’ scrota to the mast it’s the Shinners.
But we hear less than a murmur. What can it all mean? Do they know more than we do? Are they concerned that breaking this wide open will harm the Assembly, maybe bring about the thwarting of their second stab at government?
Serious questions ought to be asked: of both the DUP and Sinn Féin.
Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 10:49 PM“More info coming into public domain.
What is position of SF,SDLP, UU, Alliance and Independents on this subject.
They are very quiet. Full inquiry is needed and DUP to tell us what is going on.”I hear John Dallat will be on Radio Ulster tomorrow morning talking about it. This is a very interesting development, the issue just won’t go away.
Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 11:02 PMWhilst the earth would have to move to accomodate the Seaport Proposal (or at least the road!); Lo, let us not forget that a goodly proportion of the proposed site actually lies under Causeway Road. Another example of how Minister Dodds was not going to sink any public assets into the pit? Shurely the road belongs to the public......
Posted by on Oct 04, 2007 @ 11:45 PM“I hope UNESCO are kept up to date about this controversy.”
Ulsterfan, I sent an email to Mechtild Rossler on September 17:
“Mechtild,
Your name has got a mention in one of Northern Ireland’s newspapers!! Were you ‘impressed’? ....”The email contained links to the Slugger debate as well as to a number of webpages on the NALIL blog; the latter illustrated developments at the Causeway - and nearby.
I thought it was only fair that she should be aware of the risks to the World Heritage status of the Giant’s Causeway.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:17 AMDawkins, it would appear that the DUP is firmly impaled; I don’t see an easy way out. The ‘drip drip’ keeps the story alive; it also gives courage to those who’ve been afraid to speak out.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:29 AMMannanon mac Lir, the Minister for Roads and Sewers is Conor Murphy, SF. Was he consulted on either topic?
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:34 AM“DUP people always wipe their elbows.”
And they never eat with their arse on the table.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:35 AMI see on the SF website that they’re calling for an Independent investigation into the Causeway and for all 4 ministers involved to be questioned.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:50 AMNiall,
Excellent! I misjudged them. Happy to admit I was wrong. They do have bottle after all.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 01:00 AMNewton’s Law - compiled 10/09/2007:
“DEVOLUTION DELIVERING AT GIANT’S CAUSEWAY
DUP member of the DETI Committee, Robin Newton MLA has questioned the actions of Direct Rule Ministers and praised devolution as our Ministers set about delivering results for Northern Ireland plc. Commenting the East Belfast MLA said,
“The development of a world class visitor centre at the Giant’s Causeway is vital for Northern Ireland plc. Northern Ireland is blessed with having a world heritage site located on the North Coast, yet it is mind-boggling that the hundreds of thousands of visitors to this world class site are being serviced by a wooden hut.
The DUP argued for devolution because we wanted to make Northern Ireland a success and a world leader in every aspect. As part of this strategy the DUP is about the business of ensuring that tourists to our shores have an experience which is second to none.
It is disgraceful that for seven years Direct Rule Ministers abdicated their responsibility and allowed a premier tourist attraction to be serviced by a sub-standard hut. It is welcome that our local Ministers are pushing ahead to ensure that this world class site has a world class visitor centre.â€
Since then on DUP PR Causeway land: SILENCE - NOT A GULL TO BE SEEN
More a case of Getting it Tight than Getting it Right.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 01:03 AM“And they never eat with their arse on the table.”
Too busy using it to talk out of.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 01:03 AM“Serious questions ought to be asked: of both the DUP and Sinn Féin.”
Dawkins, they are - and not just about politicos. If the Grapevine is a barometer of the news you ain’t seen nothin yet ...
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 09:52 AMArlene Foster was on Nolan show this morning but I missed the start.
Did she say anything of significance and which would give us hope that a change of mind is underway?Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 09:55 AMMechtild Rossler, a senior Unesco official, clarified the situation
“We don’t deal with private developers and I expressed that very clearly to Mr Sweeney,” she said.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 10:00 AMPete, that’s a nice bit of investigation. So it turns out that this whole damn thing all along has been at least partially about getting the creationist elbow in the door. Obscene.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 10:21 AMComrade Stalin,
It’s positively Machiavellian! Never would it have occurred to me that bad science was part of the deal. I’d assumed it was all about naked greed.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 10:39 AMWhy not, Dawkins, mythology has always been part of the Visitor Centre experience?
Presumably officials in London and Dublin, as well as UNESCO, are looking on in alarm as controversy swirls around Government ministers and officials, as well as the developer, and endangers the status of the World Heritage Site.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 11:05 AMNevin, the mythology is clearly labeled as such and is totally different from young-earth-flood nonsense.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 11:34 AMHey I wonder how the wacko creationist explain Irish Giants lol
But seriously how can SF scream and jump up and down on this issue? It would just play into paisleys hands because then he could say"it must be a good idea just look how upset the sinners are”
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:21 PMLets switch our attention for a moment to National Trust. They seem to oppose proposals of the site .
As they own most of the land what is their preference? They can not sit on their hands indefinitely and must become more pro active.
Moyle council has also a part to play.
Those of us who oppose private development are slow to recommend an alternative. If a good quality Centre is designed by a public authority then the involvement of a private company becomes irrelevant as the public mood is to retain in public ownership.Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:39 PMUlsterfan, AFAIK Moyle Council owns the land that the current visitor’s centre rests on; NT and private businesses lease from the council. The DETI led design is also on this council land.
Posted by on Oct 05, 2007 @ 12:57 PM
