Tuesday, July 01, 2008
Lord Mayor avoids official Somme commemoration.. again
As previously noted here. This morning, apparently in keeping with his party’s policy set out in 2004 - which barred Sinn Fein representatives from attending “British military commemorations” - the Lord Mayor of Belfast, Sinn Féin’s Tom Hartley, boycotted the official commemoration of those who died at the Battle of the Somme and instead laid a wreath on his own at 9am - repeating the actions of SF’s Alex Maskey, when Lord Mayor in 2002.
Pete Baker @ 01:04 PM
What exactly is an ‘official’ commemoration? What makes one commemoration ‘official’, and another ‘unofficial’? Surely, as the Lord Mayor, Hartley’s commemoration is as official as he is.
Is there some kind of legal definition of commemorations? If so, where can it be found?
Or are some commemorations considered ‘official’ simply by custom and practice? If so, these can, of course, be updated as times change. Haartley’s commemoration may become the ‘custom-and-practice’ office one soon.
Lastly, is there not a possibility that the ‘official’ commemoration is considered the official commemoration just because it has the backing of the British armed forces? In which case, of course, Hartley is entirely correct to shun it, as it would be a one-sided partisan affair designed to promote one particular view of the past.
I presume Hartley commemorated all Belfast people who died, regardless of which war, or which side, they fought on.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 01:43 PMHe shows more class then any of the unionist mayors ever have
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 01:51 PMVery good gesture by Tom Hartley- those feigning outrage by his act look pretty foolish, on here and elsewhere.
Wonder will we look forward to similar outrage when unionist Mayors ‘boycott’ official/ unofficial commemmorations of those who died during the United Irish rebellion....
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 01:53 PMIt’s like deja vu all over again.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 02:05 PMWhat exactly does this thread add the last one didn’t have? Isn’t Slugger’s bandwidth bill high enough or performance crappy enough already?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 02:08 PMWhat exactly does this thread add the last one didn’t have?
LOL - at least it’s not as bad as Mick’s thread on other bloggers telling him how clever he is (http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/thanks-for-the-links/).
That one really made me wanna throw ...
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 02:22 PMKensei: “What exactly does this thread add the last one didn’t have?”
I think Pete is having one of his OCD moments.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 02:22 PMpointless thread, already done
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:25 PMA laurel wreath is not traditional or official for remembering the Somme sacrifice.. The remembrance services in Northern Ireland are British commemorations in their nature because the people who gave their lives like those at the Somme served in or side by side with the British Army .
Nationalist/Republicans have spent generations trying to stop Northern Ireland from becoming a stable integrated inclusive society. They have sought to destroy its very fabric and now moan about everything to avoid acknowledging the reality that the Unionist people have as much right to be here and express their culture as anyone else.
.
Check out the War memorials around Ireland .They are very inclusive. I think we should honour anyone North or South, Protestant or Catholic, who fought against Franco or served in the Two Great Wars, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan. We must also honour all those who defended Catholic and Protestant alike in this part of the United Kingdom and Ireland against illegitimate armed fascist agression over the past forty years.
A laurel wreath like a white poppy is a cop out. At a personal level I have a lot of respect for Hartley but he missed an opportunity here.
Check out the long gallery in Dublin Castle-life size portraits of the Lords Lieutenant of Ireland still there in life size paintings, each frame surmounted by a crown. People in the South have become comfortable with their history and tradition. if our society is to mature like theirs we must all honour the War dead and especially those from North and South who died at the Somme in July 1916 when we had a united Ireland as part of the United Kingdom.Perhaps in November Tom hartley can manage to lay a trditional poppy wreath at the war Memorial.
.
“So we gather each November,
Bow our heads as we remember,
Stand in ranks in silence there,
United in that silent prayer.
And in token of that debt
That we must never once forget,
The hymns are sung,the lines are said
The last post requiem is played,
The wreaths of poppies deep blood red,
With gentle reverence are laid
In memory of these glorious ded.Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:34 PMIt is not entirely pointless as it demonstrates the SF attitude to its own form of apartheid.
SF --ourselves alone-----rejects all that is Unionist Protestant and British especially the Army RAF and Navy but embraces all that is Irish Catholic Gaelic and GAA.
The freedom they have always enjoyed has in part been provided by those who made the supreme sacriface in two World Wars and yet they could not join their fellow citizens to pay respect.
SF is indeed the biggest obstacle to a UI.Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:38 PMConas ta tu mo cairde!!
If you live in 6 counties- put a tricolour over the part of your phone that says UK. I did it. Just make a tiny Irish tricolour and use cellotape to cover it. It’s these little things that count. I don’t live in the ‘UK’ and got tired of looking at my phone and it saying ‘UK’. Are you? SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!!!!!!I also hold an Irish passport/ Yippeeeee!!!!!
It’s funny that all north of Ireland protestants see themselves as English and yet the whole world sees the whole of Ireland as Ireland and the people as IRISH. All the immigrants refer to the north as ‘Ireland’ even who by the way mostly sympathise with the republican position. Accept your nationality or move to England.... Love it or leave it. Eireann go Bragh!!!!!!!!!I’m away to take me medication...won’t be back.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:38 PMTotal agreement with all previous comments. Good on Hartley.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:41 PMun T.ruth
Nationalist/Republicans have spent generations trying to stop Northern Ireland from becoming a stable integrated inclusive society
Name me a single time that unionism has ever tried to build integrated inclusive society?
Albeit they did try to build a stable society, as long as those damn croppies knew ther place
pathetic rewrite of history
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 03:52 PMSteve
Perhaps you can provide one piece of legislation passed by the old Stormont which was discriminatory in favour of protestants.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:01 PM... in favour of protestants.
Huh? Who mentioned religion? Stormont was grossly biased in favour of unionism and the unionist ethos. It made no attempt whatsoever to be inclusive of the other tradition(s).
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:06 PMEl Dorado
“It’s funny that all north of Ireland protestants see themselves as English”You been on the troll juice again?
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:08 PMULsterfan
Perhaps you can provide one piece of legislation passed by the old Stormont which was discriminatory in favour of protestants.
It wasn’t so much the legislation introduced as how it was used and on whom. The Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act (Northern Ireland) 1922 is a prime example.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:08 PMHorseman
Lets change the context and perhaps you can provide evidence to support your contention by quoting Legislation which discriminated against NATIONALISTS/REPUBLICANS.
After all a Parliament is best judged by the laws it passed.
Lets highlight those which were discriminatory.Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:13 PMulsterfan,
… perhaps you can provide evidence ...
Perhaps I can!
But perhaps I’m not so stoopid as to fall for this old trick. Do your own research, read some books, spend some of your valuable time educating yourself, and then maybe you’ll be able to provide your own evidence.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 04:22 PMHorseman
I am not the person making the claim about discrimination and what form it takes and who is disadvantaged.
I have indeed read a lot and carried out research so I do not need to follow your advice which I presume was a kindly thought on your part. Thank you.
I do not know what you mean about a trap or trick. I assure you this was farthest from my mind!!!!!Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 05:06 PMWhat!!!!!!!!!!!
That wreath was for the war dead!
I thought it was for Robert McCartney and that’s why it was done early in the morning because they were so embarrassed.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 06:31 PMThe veneration of the supposed glory of violence, murder and death by unionism or should I say Loyalism (Im not sure I know the difference)as an ideology never ceases to amaze me.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 08:41 PMThe veneration of the supposed glory of violence, murder and death by unionism or should I say Loyalism (Im not sure I know the difference)as an ideology never ceases to amaze me.
Posted by Eireannach Saolta on Jul 01, 2008 @ 08:41 PM
Surely it’s the same difference that there is between Republicanism and Nationalism. The later aiming for the same goal while preferring to let the former do all the dirty work.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 10:34 PM“Very good gesture by Tom Hartley..”
Chris,
He couldn’t really do less than Alex Maskey did six years ago in 2002.
And given the party’s decision in 2004, it’s difficult for him to do more - even if he wanted to.
As for those querying the existence of this post in the first place.
Part of the Baconian method is to document every instance of relevance to a topic and note where it diverges, or agrees, with what’s gone before.
Particularly important in an instance where we’re being invited to believe that this is an “very good gesture”.
As Mick said in 2002 -
“Mayor Maskey decides discretion is the better part of valor (for now at least) over the commemoration of the Somme in Belfast. It may be too soon for both his own and Unionist supporters in the City.”
The SF Ard Fheis reaction in 2004 clearly indicates that that gesture then was too soon for some.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 11:03 PMPete
Fascinating how this rankles with you, a sure sign that republicans have made a good move- oh, and good one about that ol’ Baconian method, had me in stitches…
Hartley and Maskey before him have managed to find a way of showing respect for the deaths of Irishmen killed in British uniforms fighting an utterly futile war. The non-participation of republicans in official commemorations is only really an issue for those looking to be offended, as you have nicely illustrated.
Posted by on Jul 01, 2008 @ 11:27 PM
