Monday, October 06, 2008
Limited troops call
Following a series of attempted attacks in Fermanagh UUP MLA Tom Elliott has called army personnel to return in a support role to police. He criticised security evaluations of dissident capabilities in the area and speculated:
“Obviously they’re getting help and support which is a huge concern and I’m afraid that maybe some of that support is from coming over from mainstream republicanism.”
Fair Deal @ 01:54 PM
Any evidence on offer or just the UUP yearning for the good old days?
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 02:10 PMAs Mr Elliot and his party don’t want to be responsible for policing and justice issues right now they’ll just have to trust the judgement of HMG on this.
I’m sure the army boys are dusting off their flak jackets and ordering tickets to Fermanagh as I type.
After all, Mr Elliot has certainly produced a cogent and well presented argument. It’s “obvious” that they are needed, he says.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 02:35 PMI’m afraid that maybe
I’m afraid that Tom Elliot may be a ten-foot-tall green monster with reptilian forefathers who eats little children and uses the wrong fork at table, but you don’t hear me telling that to the BBC do you.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 02:38 PMrealistically, it’s a matter of time until a police officer is murdered. I guess the question is what is the best way of preventing this from happening? Army personel in Fermanah would be like showing a red rag to a bull. Not a good idea…
But certainly cops in border areas do need more protection.Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:08 PMTom Elliott [edited by moderator - play the ball], look at his recent ourbursts over the Fermanagh GAA. Looks to me like the pSNI are dealing with the threat pretty well to date . [edited by moderator]
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:08 PMthe IRA may have gone away, you know; but the boggie-man of the IRA is still very much alive and kicking in poor Tom’s wee head.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:29 PMFrom some of the comments on here you would think that there was nothing happening in Fermanagh. As someone who lived there during the 80s and 90s I can assure you that no-one in their right mind would want a return to those days. This threat cannot just be wished away however personal the insults thrown so easily at Tom Elliot. Would be more interested to hear from contributors just what they think should be done in response to this threat. Only last week we had a Sinn Fein spokesman in South Belfast criticising the PSNI for poor crime clean up rates in South Belfast. What about South Fermanagh. Is the answer to ignore what happens in Fermanagh because it is far away from Belfast?
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:30 PMObvious job for the Gardai
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:37 PMI think the Gardai are indeed on the case and have considerably more resources than the PSNI in the area, the Irish Army too. I think though that people in the north should perhaps have some input
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:46 PMAlan,
you say “this threat”.I think we are all agreed there is a threat but there’s a threat in Limerick too but we don’t have soldiers on the streets.
You and Mr Elliot need to present a cogent argument for taking such drastic action. Where is it?
It’s a big move to return the army to the streets so let’s hear something that you can back up.
Otherwise, it’s just playing politics with policing or playing the populist with the unionist gallery.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 03:58 PMI think the army may have committments elsewhere, they barely have the troops to cover. The MoD wouldnt even countenance such action even if it were politically feasible. The spooks at Palace Barracks should be concentrating here.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 04:04 PMGeorge,
I did not say in my posting that I supported Tom Elliot in his call for the return of soldiers to the area. I was simply asking the question..what is to be done? The word ‘threat’ was used by Sir Hugh Orde recently and also the Garda Commissioner when talking about dissident republicans. If, God Forbid, someone gets injured or indeed killed then perhaps there will be comments on here that something should have been done sooner. My hope would be that mainstream republicans in the area might find some way to co-operate with PSNI/Garda and also to help bring over-riding community influence to bear on those involved. Party politicing will not not help in this but neither will pretending that it is not happening
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 04:08 PMToo soon to bring the troops in but when it becomes necessary there will be no delay.
After all there is little opposition.Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 04:38 PMThen why bother bringing in the troop ulsterfan?
Its a daft statement with the poor fella just trying to prove his unionist credentials. You have to feel sorry for him. I think he should read George’s remark in post 2 and have a wee think about things before engagin his mouth again.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 05:08 PMThe troops will be brought in to support PSNI.
They had great success in dealing with terrorists in the past.
Lets hope it does not reach that stage.
There are over 5000 stationed in NI and their services can be given at a few hours notice.Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 06:15 PMLast year the Sinn Fein PIRA MP for the area said she would not give information to the police about dissident guns. Why have the DUP not requested a clear statement from Michelle Gildernew as to her current position given the terrorist threat in Fermanagh?
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 06:49 PMIs P & J claiming the the MP is a member of PIRA?
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 07:21 PM“PeaceandJustice”
Why didn’t the DUP ask the “loyalist” terrorists (you do remember them don’t you) about their guns when they met recently?
You know - the ones who are up to their necks in drug dealing, prostitution and racketeering in “loyalist” areas.
Apparently their guns have been put “beyond use”. Funny how Unionists still don’t accept IRA decommissioning even though it was witnessed by a internationallly respected group.
Yet, I don’t hear you or any other Unionists crying out about ‘loyalist’ terrorist arms even though the UVF or UDA haven’t handed in a single bullet yet.
Nothing like consistency eh!
Ulsterfan
What will happen after the “troops are brought in”? Perhaps the return of the RUC or UDR - even the B Specials.
Dream on - the UK govt is struggling to meet it’s commitments in parts of the world it cares about. In case, you hadn’t noticed, they don’t give a shit about NI.
That’s what the policy of “Ulsterisation” was all about - people in Britain weren’t that bothered about RUC/UDR men getting killed but they don’t like “their boys” coming back in coffins.
The UK govt would love nothing more than to get their reamining troops out and deployed somewhere meaningful.
There isn’t a hope in hell of them deploying more troops here despite the eloquence and beautifully argued case (LOL) of Mr Elliott.
Posted by on Oct 06, 2008 @ 08:24 PMBilly, to be fair to the unionists, they may need those guns in the future, should democracy not work out for them (again).
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 12:11 AMBilly and Cahal you really add so much to the cerebral nature of this discussion
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 08:47 AMWhy did Elliott not simply ask for police resources in the area to be reinforced? Surely that is what happens in a normal society.
Is he a member of the DPP? If not, his party can raise the issue for him.
Asking for the BA to be brought back into the borreens of Fermanagh is deliberately inflamatory, designed on the one hand to ‘reassure’ those unionists who (like Molyneaux) felt (politically) safer during war than during peace, and on the other hand to discomfit nationalists by showing them some British ‘military muscle’. He is trying to turn the clock back.
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 09:16 AMTo Billy - Do you have anything to say about the Sinn Fein PIRA MP for the area who said she would not give information to the police about dissident guns?
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 09:18 AMTom Elliot’s logic is constrained by his unionist outlook. Bringing back British troops would only be bringing more targets for the dissidents.
It would make more sense to call for joint Garda/PSNI patrols on both sides of the border. While the dissident ideology finds support for targeting ‘british’ police and soldiers among its small base, there would be a strong resistance to targeting gardai. We know that dissidents are sensitive to their own supporters because they quickly went to ground after the Omagh bombing.
Such patrols could be achieved by having a number of gardai and PSNI officers dual-qualified and able to operate in the jurisdiction that they were operating in. Perhaps Tom wouldn’t relish the sight of Police/Garda marked cars in Fermanagh?
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 11:04 AMNiall, do you think those same marked cars would be welcome in Cavan/Monaghan ?
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 02:11 PMNo need to bring any troops ‘back’ as the garrison here is pretty strong. Army technical teams already operate widely, and were at the scene in Fermanagh. Be a hell of a political risk to operate foot patrols though. They are a blunt instrument without effective intelligence and an admission of failure by the PSNI. MI5 should have this well covered.
Posted by on Oct 07, 2008 @ 02:24 PM
