Thursday, January 19, 2006
Latest Sinn Fein spy outed
Well, it looks like this one wasn’t tittle tattle. In fact nobody seems to have fingered Sean Lavelle before he outed himself. The party worker joins a growing band of ex informers from inside the Republican movement.
Mick Fealty @ 08:45 AM
Betty boo
“If the republican movement was so riddled with spies and if its leadership was run by the british, what was all these listen and look equipment for from the bug to the tower worth millions of pounds?”
Most spy towers were in South Armagh which remained fixed on the military route.Listening equipment probably put into place by builders and agents who need to know that their cober was n’t blown and what was being said behind their back. Trust no-one especially if they are armed(uniformrd or other wise)
Adams Knew !!!!.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:29 PMshamo wrote:
“As for those who peddle the line, “touts in Sinn Fein = Adams must go”, do you seriously expect the leader of one of the most sucessful and demonstrably effective liberation forces in the world “
They have failed abysmally. Electoral success means nothing when no goods whatsoever have been delivered.
The armed struggle deepened divisions on this island and SF’s brand of republicanism is still rooted in ethnicity.
The war was well and truly lost.Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:34 PMAnyone who thinks Gerry is going to step down (or be made to do so) hasn’t watch him or the party very carefully. Not going to happen.
fkPosted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:39 PMi see ‘chris gaskin’ is posting for the sinn fein blog monitoring committee today - ‘pat’ must have a day off! god, you guys are so devoted to the big effort it would bring tears to the eye!
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:44 PMwest belfast resident
‘according to Pat they are all safe and sound within their communities in North Belfast. No one has the torches out for them, they didn’t do it.’
The ‘they’ I was referring to were two republicans named in the media after the furore over Scap. They are indeed living safe and sound in North Belfast. No one has the torches out for them and I do believe they are not guilty of anything. What exactly is the point?
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:47 PMElfanto, you said:
“when are you going to expose the agents in charge of state-sponsored death squads ...”
Are you talking about the PIRA Army Council? As each day goes bby, it becomes more clear that the biggest British-run death sqaud during the troubles was the provisional movement.
Re Adams resigning, he wouldn’t resign when his movement was killing people - he’s hardly going to resign now that it turns out the Brits were helping run the show, is he?
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:47 PM” see ‘chris gaskin’ is posting for the sinn fein blog monitoring committee today - ‘pat’ must have a day off! god, you guys are so devoted to the big effort it would bring tears to the eye! “
Is this some kind of automated response to any post from CG or PML? It grows tedious.
A lot of trolls on this site recently. Not a lot of substance.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:49 PMIndeed Cahal
.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:56 PM‘A lot of trolls on this site recently. Not a lot of substance.’
You’re probably right and i’m probably one of them but it isn’t often that the Sinn Fein monolith leves itself so wide open to gob- smacking ridicule - that’s normally the job of the DUP. And cheer up, it’s better than killing people. And Chris Gaskin has a sense of humour so that’s me put in my box.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 02:57 PMBogexile.
It’s one thing to make a satirical post (which was pretty funnt BTW), another entirely to follow people around claiming they are part of a blog committee.
That smacks of intimidation to me.It’s about time the mods handed out a few red cards.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 03:00 PMNorthern FF (ha ha that’s a laugh!)
No, I was actually referring to unionist/loyalist paramilitaries / ‘security forces’ who liked to bump off people based on their perceived religious beliefs or political opinions.
They murdered hundreds of people at the behest of their nameless masters.I’m not surprised you haven’t heard of these death squads as Free State political wanna-bes don’t tend to lose much sleep over the activities of these gangs whether they occur north or south of the border.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 03:56 PMTAFKABO’s post reveals the Stalinism lurking just beneath the surface in SF and its followers - any dissent? hit it on the head, hard! that’s why they should never, ever be allowed near power!
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 03:58 PMOMG Lavelle who was a Sinn Fein election worker climbing ladders and collecting voters is a tout - Adams has to go - did he not know what his poster boy was up to ?
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:04 PM(I need to start wearing my sash a little more if some people haven’t worked out yet that I’m a unionist).
Alfredo.
If you want to let someone off the hook, the best thing to do is throw all sorts of false accusations at them, it makes you look stupid, and allows them to avoid their own responsibility to answer the questions that ought to be answered.
But more importantly, it’s wrong, simple as that.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:10 PMElfinto
I was well aware of who you thought you were referring to - I was trying to point out to you and your pals that given the level of infiltration, the provisional movement was in fact the largest agent of the ‘security forces’ and the ‘nameless masters’ you talk about.
I make no qualitative distinction - I despise them all.
Personal insults on me, while vaguely amusing, don’t change the fact that PIRA now appears to have been the biggest state murder agent of them all.
‘Freestate political wannabes’: Subtle Elfinto, very subtle. Ho ho.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:18 PMtafkabo
a bit of your own medicine there, but i sympathise. see how easy it is to be brushed a provo for deviating from the line?
alfredo
you’d be among the first to shine uncle joe’s shoes, son… all the proper qualities—veneration of authority, all authority; unquestioning acceptance of the most ridiculous puff; the tendency to indulge in smear when your intellectual powers desert you (which is often, apparently)
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:18 PMChris G.
Maybe I am paranoid but when I ask myself why these touts are being outed now I can’t help but think that this is a clearing of the decks.
Is it possible that there is some deal in the works on policing and in the future Gerry Kelly will be able to demand from the police the names of informers in the RM. Better to out them now!!
I am not concerned about touts in the RM. I can only imagine the pressure they were facing to force them to turn—more years in prison -or worse.
I am concerned about loyalist paramilitary infiltration of the police. I want these guys out and I want to be sure they are all gone. Tony Blair’s word is not enough for me.
Chris—I grew up in North Belfast where there were a lot of sectarian killings. I normally think this wasn’t an issue in S. Armagh. However in the last few months we have learnt that the reevy(sp?) brothers were murdered by the police and this lead to the Kingsmill killing—one of the worst sectarian atrocities in the last 30 years.
Endorsement of the police , as currently constituted, would for me be the RM’s crossing of the Rubicon
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:20 PMPiebald has the point. This guy is the *non-spy*. What was he telling the brits? “They’re going to use the posters of Gerry with the serious face in this election.” He can’t have done too much damage.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:22 PM“Is it possible that there is some deal in the works on policing and in the future Gerry Kelly will be able to demand from the police the names of informers in the RM. Better to out them now!! “
Now there is a working theory!!!Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:26 PMMaybe I am paranoid but when I ask myself why these touts are being outed now I can’t help but think that this is a clearing of the decks
Heck
My own view is that it is a concerted campaign by securocrats to “out” their touts in the hope that it will destabilise the Republican movement.
The only problem for them is that most republicans can see what they are up to.
I am not concerned about touts in the RM
That has always been a concern. The Brits have been using Brit spies and informers for hundreds of years, why would they stop now?
That said until presented with evidence to the contrary, your comrade yesterday is still your comrade today.
I am sure there are more touts; I don’t think anyone believes there isn’t but this crap about them running the movement is just nonsense.
You have to put your faith in people, not unconditional faith but you have to trust people at their word or else we are all f*****.
Chris—I grew up in North Belfast where there were a lot of sectarian killings. I normally think this wasn’t an issue in S. Armagh.
It was during the 70’s but after that it seemed to stop somewhat.
Endorsement of the police , as currently constituted, would for me be the RM’s crossing of the Rubicon
Me as well
I don’t think there is any possibility of Sinn Féin endorsing the cops as currently constituted.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 04:34 PMsee how easy it is to be brushed a provo for deviating from the line?
Absofuckinlutely. Well said. It’s a shame that it even needs to be said.
Another poster made an interesting point earlier: how on earth can anyone actually trust a state with so much blood on its hands?
It’s outrageous.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 05:02 PMI think someone should check out the powers of the police committees, as I feel some are under a misapprehension as to their powers. I doubt very much wether members of these committees will have any say over operational matters. [which touts would come under] So the prospect of Gerry Kelly asking Hugh Orde the names of the touts his officers run are nil, even if SF were to join the committees.
I agree with Heck, SF would have to come up with a good reason for joining the police committees, something which would be a very difficult thing to do if the PSNI still had an active SB.Elsewhere in the UK the main role of police authorities is to appoint, within Home Office guidelines and recommendations the chief constable, oversee expenditure,[in the north this would mean OK-ing money for plastic bullets, riot protection gear etc] certain disciplinary matters and not much more. In reality they are an oversight committee designed as window dressing to pretend the police is accountable to the communities they are supposed to serve. The 1984 miners strike in the UK exposed this as a complete nonsense.
The police above all else are, if the need arises, the sharp end of the State, those on the left forget this at their peril, although I doubt few northern nationalist over 20 need reminding of this fact. This is not to say there is not a need for them, but we should never forget when push comes to shove they will always; and I mean always side with the power that exists at the time. Ireland is a fine example of this, both before and after 1922, but nazi occupied Europe is an even better one. As far as im aware there was not a single example where the police did not collaborate. [bar the USSR whose police along with the rest of its people were regarded by the nazis as sub human]
Im sure who ever put forth the PB has dressed it up in ultra democratic language, but so to was the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, yet when it came time for Nuala O’Lone to deliver the goods over StormontGate, she had gone native, as all such office holder invariably do and she took what the PSNI said on this matter as gospel from day one.
regards to all.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 05:27 PMNFF
What did successive Irish governments ever do for the victims of the Dublin & Monaghan bombings? Apart from covering up the truth of course.
And where have FF been for the last 80 years? Exactly. Anywhere but the north.
Why don’t just join the SDLP? Not ‘sexy’ enough for ya!?
So spare us the nonsense about the RM being the puppet of the Brits. It’s no more the puppet of the Brits than it was the puppet of Fianna Fail following the 69 split - as some people allege.
If you’re going to start acting the smart ass (as you did) please don’t start complaining when you receive some venom in return. I actually take the issue of state collusion with loyalist murder gangs very seriously and I don’t appreciate your infantile sarcasm over the issue one bit.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 05:29 PMI think moost of us at this stage can tell the difference between a gunuine crisis and people running around trying to talk up a crisis.
Sinn Fein’s approach to the attempts to undermine it by outing touts has been quite good in the circumstances. It is interesting that those on the republican side who are claiming to be most outraged are the same people who object the whole peace strategy.
TAFKABO
I’m outraged that you were nominated to the SFBMC before I was.
Posted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 05:37 PMElfinto,
You make a fair point here, what you should not do though is restrict your quewst for knowledge to only one aspect of collusion? Collusion also occurred with Republicans? or are you not interested in both sides of the coin?
Quote"I actually take the issue of state collusion with loyalist murder gangs very seriously and I don’t appreciate your infantile sarcasm over the issue one bit.UnQuote
before you start I am not on the night shift tonight so go easy.
MartinPosted by on Jan 19, 2006 @ 05:43 PM
