Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Keep your religion out of my politics…
Alex Kane is a unionist, and a committed atheist. In his column this week he makes it clear that he doesn’t think politics and religion mix. There’s a lot of it about. The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Billwas the partial subject of a sermon in the local parish church this Sunday. Northern Ireland’s science education policy has a strange abivalence within it, presumably because of some internal lobbying in the Executive. Yet is it always true that the kind of moral rigour that church influence can bring to the secular democratic feast is always negative? For instance, what of Denis Faul’s famous line there is either law, or no law?
Mick Fealty @ 10:35 AM
I refused to partake in RE at school, and that was 15 years ago now.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 03:29 PMI refused to partake in RE at school ...
Curiously, in my school it was the RE teacher who refused to partake in RE, even though he was an ordained Methodist Minister. He used to read us Sherlock Holmes stories in class. I suppose the school knew, but were too embarrassed to do anything about it. That was in the old days, though. I guess such a thing would be unthinkable in our newer, more tolerant world.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 03:38 PMCan you realy keep religion out of the school?
I went to a state school which was mainly Protestant because there was a Roman Catholic grammer just up the road. I can’t really imagine any subject (apart from RE) or any practices which may take on a religious tinge. Not sure about Roman Catholic schools, are there any practices or subjects other than RE which may take on a religious element?
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 03:51 PMSex education for a start.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 03:57 PMCertainly UMH. Non stop it was in my old school, occasionally praying before classes, mass every first Friday of the month, fish only in the canteen every Friday. But then we were run by the priests, having priests for several subjects and a priest for a head master. Not the case in the majority of CCMS.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 03:59 PM@beano
“I don’t actually see religion being forced on anyone in the UK”
Really? Sunday trading hours? Not being able to buy a 6-pack in a corner shop? The IFA’s recently rescinded ban on competitive matches on a Sunday? Prayers in school?
I’m an atheist and I support all of those except the last one, or at the very least I would be open to persuasion on all of them but the last one.
Basically unless it’s a personal matter and therefore not in the domain of public policy put it to the vote and whether someone votes for religious or other reasons should be irrelevant. For example, there are a lot more atheists that oppose abortion than many people think, or that would at least (in a GB context anyway) support it being more restricted and the time limit reduced. If people are not allowed to vote on things where there is a public interest according to religious beliefs it would never work. How could we do otherwise? Have a referendum on abortion with a lie detector at the polling station so that they can test to see if you are a genuine atheist or agnostic before you are allowed to vote? It would be absurd. Religion should be allowed to influence politics so long as it goes through the democratic process rather than bypassing it.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 06:54 PMCan you realy keep religion out of the school?
“Certainly UMH. Non stop it was in my old school, occasionally praying before classes, mass every first Friday of the month, fish only in the canteen every Friday. But then we were run by the priests, having priests for several subjects and a priest for a head master. Not the case in the majority of CCMS.”
I went to college with a fella who lived like you, he was from Dunloy and made it known he was involved with the protests against the Orangemen and local bands. I liked him because he was a funny character, but when he found out I was a Protestant, he was stunned and admitted he never thought Protestants were like me (ie- actually didn’t want to kill Catholics) and that he could make friends with a Prod. He admitted to me he had lead so sheltered a life in pre-school, public school and grammer that he had no other experience of mingling with Protestants.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 09:22 PM“Render unto Caesar......”
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 09:33 PMTwo points to make rather than belabouring any points… Firstly, there are more atheists than currently counted, as the census and equality employment forms do not recognise atheists as a group (you can be a protestant atheist or a catholic atheist though). An historical hangover it may be, but still blatantly unfair (not going to say unjust as lawyers may see an opportunity)
Secondly, while you can withdraw a child from RE legally, you have to have a determined child and be a committed parent. In my own case I asked my daughter to stick at it til 3rd form, and if she still felt that way I would back it (though I’m an atheist I wasn’t going to stop her from making at least a relatively informed choice). When she said no more sky fairy education it took, two formal letters to the school, two meetings and increasingly desperate attempts from the school to offer alternative examining boards RE-type examinations...ironically her marks in triple science award tests have increased steadily since quitting RE....though she was totally pissed off to find ID creeping into the curriculum.
Sorry I may have belaboured that a bit!
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 10:22 PMHe admitted to me he had lead so sheltered a life in pre-school, public school and grammer that he had no other experience of mingling with Protestants.
Posted by Ulsters my homeland on Apr 22, 2008 @ 10:22 PM
UMH, you didn’t balance this by stating the obvious that there are Protestants too who have never mixed with Catholics and consequently have also built up prejudices.
Think it was you that was enquiring about a Catholic school education. I attended a Christan Brothers Secondary in the Republic in the 80s.
No witchcraft or anything like that!! Boys only. A short prayer at the start of each class. A crucifix in each class. Just one or two school masses each year. Four half hour RE classes per week. No RE exams. Evolution taught in Biology..no cover ups there.
Even then the vast majority of the teachers were lay teachers. Sex education by a lay teacher was very open and liberal. The Brothers were decent human beings. A few were a bit eccentric but by and large we got a good and affordable education out of them (the “voluntary subscription” was a bargain 15 to 25 pounds per annumn).
Perhaps we got too good an education out of them : 90% of us are now “pagans”.
Posted by on Apr 22, 2008 @ 10:57 PMHe talks about atheism and you talk about religion. Hmm - starting to lose fascination - you make no sense.
Posted by on Apr 23, 2008 @ 08:17 PM
