Thursday, September 20, 2007
It’s ‘that song’ wot sunk us…
I’m going to try and do a vox pop in Paris tomorrow on what Irish rugby fans really do think about Ireland’s Call. Shane Hegarty’s picked up some hostility towards it in within the pages of today’s Irish Times, and on RTE. Frank McNally is possibly on to something when he notes that “...as a song to unify Ireland’s two communities, it has succeeded well, if only because music-loving Catholics and Protestants seem to hate it equally.”
Mick Fealty @ 03:03 PM
Teenage Kicks by the Undertones would be my choice, ofcourse I don’t expect many others to agree.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:20 AMpaid
you could consider me Martian but it wouldn’t change the enduring reality.
And I could consider you British ... :)
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:21 AMIreland!
Ireland!
Forever singing songs
When oh when will you put the rugby on!Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:45 AMGoing by Ireland’s recent performances ‘Loser’ by Beck might be a good replacement.
I think Ireland’s Call is a bit naff but as other posters have pointed out the song you sing beforehand isn’t really that important so long as it isn’t offensive/alienating to some of the fans.
I like the idea of re-wording the Sash though…
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:58 AMI think this evening at Ravenhill will show newbie or whatever he was calling himself that plenty of northern unionist types will be very vocal in their support of Ireland as they’re playing it in a big screen after the Ospreys game.
I’m a unionist, atheist from a prod background, living in rather proddy north down but I support Ireland in the rugby and even partook of an irish passport due to it being a bit cheaper than my own birthright British one.
You’ll find it’s only scummy loyalist types from some dingy estate in places like Larne who have an issue with supporting an all island team in a sport. Most sensible unionists can bring themselves to support the union and support the Ireland rugby team...although that said I’ve seen a lot of “younger” prods wearing England shirts. Deary me…
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:04 AMHow about:
‘One nation under a groove, getting down just foooooor the funk of it!’
Well you never know. I’m not a rugby fan but Ireland’s Call is definitely a rousing tune and if its lyrics are slightly saccharine so what? Show me a ‘national’ anthem whose words weren’t cheesy, militaristic, racist or just plain dull and I’ll hold my hands up.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:09 AM..And there we have the mindset of the garedencentre prod alickadoo in one post.
Someone who’ll take an irish passport because it’s cheaper places little value on identity.You might even be one of those bizarre Unionists who Dermot Ahern says want to join Fianna Fail. Coming soon to a fantasy world near you,the Jews who want to join the Pig marketing board.
I am neither a scummy loyalist type, nor do I live in a dingy loyalist estate. I shudder at the mere mention of Larne.
If al wants to support the irish team fair enough- I won’t. I would like a Northern Ireland rugby team,but it’ll never happen because poseurs from the Ulster branch would never forfeit their 6 nations weekends in the ShelbourneI have no problem in supporting irish teams that respect my identity, such as the cricket team. Hope you choke on your pimms tonight at Ravenhill, al, as the walking personality bypass that is O’Gara gets crunched for the tenth time when given a hospital pass from a scrumm half who thinks “defence” is “something in de back yard”
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:27 AMWhoops! I just realised while sitting down to my pre-luncheon cocktail that two certain smartarses, Harry Flashman and Yours truly here, were only half right, and therefore all wrong, when we insisted that the reference “three hundred men and three men” in A Nation Once Again was to Horatio at the bridge. It is the line preceding that gives the clue, “For Greece and Rome who bravely stood”.
The reference therefore is to both the 300 Spartans at the pass at Thermopylae and to the three men, including Horatio, who stood against Lars Porsena at the bridge on the River Tiber.
Serves me bloody right for jumping in and agreeing with Harry Flashman.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:30 AMI am a Northern Prod which seems to be important in this debate and any debate around the irish rugby team.
I wholeheartedly support the Irish Rugby team however it is despite of the actions and policies of the governing body.
We should not play a national anthem that excludes half the fans and a good portion of the team....I would never have asked O’Driscoll to stand for God Save the Queen under a red hand at ravenhill the concept is ludicrous....but by the same token....it should be Ireland’s Call (or its replacement) alone.
Now on topic, I love Ireland’s call, I think its a great song and while lyrically it has some geographically/politically incorrect lyrics :)....I just move the apostrophe in my head :)
The problem with Ireland’s call is that it sounds crap when it is sung correctly....or actually sung at all! it should be screamed and be out of tune...much like flower or scotland it only sounds good when its sung with passion and no musical skill.
It sounds great while screamed at the tv and down the pub....whenever some young artiste is singing it at the ground it doesnt work.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:50 AM3 of the 4 provinces, i.e. a majority of Irish rugby players and supporters would prefer to see Amhran na bhFiann being the only song played.
Why can’t the wishes of the majority prevail?
If you consider yourself British then why not support one of the rugby teams from Britain?
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:52 AMI’ll be happy to let you know I voted for Bob in North Down last time and the core belief I hold is a united ireland as part of the UK...too many soft arse unionists seem to only be interested in a union for Northern Ireland but perhaps i’m more “radical” than even you could bring yourself to be? who knows.
Frankly i’m comfortable to admit that I am british by birth and a unionist but I don’t just discard the fact that, not only to a lot of people on this island, but to quite a lot of the rest of the world, i am irish also.
I also don’t really give a flying fcuk what it says on the passport as it’s just a piece of paper to get you in and out of the country. I know of plenty of people with 2 or even 3 passports in some instances. Whether I had a british or irish passport doesn’t really matter considering the fact that i’m actually able to acquire either or both at any point in time, just as you are I expect.
I’ll try to avoid the pimms tonight, just incase.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:53 AMBogExile, you write....
“1. I’m a unionist who turns slightly nationalist when the rugby’s on
2. I can’t think of any sporting or other circumstance where the reverse would obtain.”
Well this Nationalist does when the Lions are playing....and I suspect I’m not the only one.
BonarLaw, you write that you could consider me British.
You wouldn’t be the first ducky. I certainly sound like one, and I’m told I look like one!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:53 AMHow about:
‘One nation under a groove, getting down just foooooor the funk of it!’
Posted by Ms Wiz on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:09 PM
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! This should be the rugby song and the national anthem!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:54 AMon the topic of tunes…
Land Of Confusion (apt title?) by Genesis?!
I mustve dreamed a thousand dreams
Been haunted by a million screams
But I can hear the marching feet
Theyre moving into the street.Now did you read the news today
They say the dangers gone away
But I can see the fires still alight
There burning into the night.Theres too many men
Too many people
Making too many problems
And not much love to go round
Cant you see
This is a land of confusion.This is the world we live in
And these are the hands were given
Use them and lets start trying
To make it a place worth living in.Ooh superman where are you now
When everythings gone wrong somehow
The men of steel, the men of power
Are losing control by the hour.This is the time
This is the place
So we look for the future
But theres not much love to go round
Tell me why, this is a land of confusion.This is the world we live in
And these are the hands were given
Use them and lets start trying
To make it a place worth living in.I remember long ago -
Ooh when the sun was shining
Yes and the stars were bright
All through the night
And the sound of your laughter
As I held you tight
So long ago -I wont be coming home tonight
My generation will put it right
Were not just making promises
That we know, well never keep.Too many men
Theres too many people
Making too many problems
And not much love to go round
Cant you see
This is a land of confusion.Now this is the world we live in
And these are the hands were given
Use them and lets start trying
To make it a place worth fighting for.This is the world we live in
And these are the names were given
Stand up and lets start showing
Just where our lives are going to.Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:54 AM“Why can’t the wishes of the majority prevail?”
Well Confused....doesn’t that just have the potential to open up a whole can worms!!Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 11:58 AMConfused
The island of Ireland rugby team purports to represent both a part of the UK and the Irish republic. No need to support another team when our Britishness is perfectly well represented in the islands’ 15.
BTW Darth, much too chilly for Pimms tonight.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:04 PMNo thank you, Al, not Land of Confusion thank you. Why replace one miserable dirge with bloody awful piss-poor lyrics (Ireland’s Call)?) with another?
Ireland’s Call indeed. Ireland’s bloody Bawl more like!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:17 PMAm aware of what the team purports to represent..
My point is simple-as a majority of supporters/players of the Irish rugby team prefer AnF, then it should be the anthem to be sung.
If an Irish team, can’t sing the Irish national anthem, disband the team on RoI and NI lines. Sceptical to say the least of what Ringland describes as the unity that can be created through sport; the IRFU has hardly been a catalyst in the peace process.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:19 PMConfused
the team isn’t a national team so a national anthem would be inappropriate.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:24 PMconfused
“ If you consider yourself british then why not support one of the rugby teams teams from britain?”
Consider it done. I have been supporting England for a number of years as I gave up waiting for the I.R.F.U. to show respect and parity of esteem to the people from the unionist tradition who supported “Ireland”.
Al
Your comments about “scummy loyalists from dingy housing estates” were appalling. You must be feeling very relieved to have been born with a silver spoon in your gub. Do you know anyone who live in these areas? I some how doubt it. No wonder working class unionists couldn’t give a toss about Irish and Ulster rugby when they have a buffoon like you as cheerleader.Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 12:48 PMthe truth is that the anthem isn’t that big a deal for the irfu, on the whole - I think they were taken a bit by surprise by the fact that the anthem turned into such an issue for the italy match. i personally would have preferred to see them playing GSTQ, dreary dirge that it is - it may have appeared a tad perplexing to the uninitiated, but this is after all a perplexing place.
they didn’t. the world still turns. big fecking deal.
darth rumsfeld - you are displaying a profound lack of insight into rugby crowds in ulster, the alickadoos you mention will be a tiny minority at ravenhill tonight, and there will be no pimms in sight.
i have a clear picture of my identity - i’m british and irish (so my passports tell me) and that’ll do for me. i love rugby and support ulster and ireland (ni at footy). i don’t need to somehow validate my identity by thinking that everyone supporting the same sports teams as i do, have the same opinions as i do.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 01:15 PMGod this thread went off at some tangent !
Lighten up folks. An anthem should ideally be short, simple and rousing. Ireland’s Call fits the bill perfectly. It is fantastic and the hairs on the back of a few necks will be standing up when it is bellowed out in Paris circa 8pm tonight...!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 01:31 PMLafcadio
I go to Ravenhill regularly. I have seen the old buffers in bow ties and blazers pootering up to the gate. Plus, of course loads of grammar school boys and their dads, and the odd trophy wife- the nearest thing to anything orange that you’ll see there. I’ve drunk the overpriced Guinness, and passed the hipflask. There are also quite a few normal human beings scattered about in the crowd. But there ain’t too many scummy loyalists from council estatesI think you probably have a healthy approach to sport, and until the recent Ireland-Italy match I was a lukewarm irish supporter too. But the IRFU mealymouthed response to parity of esteem, and the pathetic attempt of some supporters to be half-different by flying 2 cross of St patrick flags [FFS!!!] convinced me that my part of the Irish equation isn’t welcome in IRFU towers.
There would have been nothing wrong with GSTQ and a plethora of “Ulster” flags at Ravenhill-or indeed Lansdowne-and if BOD was squeamish about it then tough- Davy Tweed had to swallow the medicine, and Jimmy McCoy even needed police protection to play for a team that played under a flag revered by people who wanted to kill him.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 01:35 PMHi Confused/Bonar Law,
Being pedantic, the Irish rugby team don’t even sing the RoI’s National Anthem. The republic’s anthem is A Soldier’s Song. Amhrán na bhFiann is not the National Anthem. After 1922 there was confusion over what was the National Anthem. If you look thro’ the Dail records you’ll find no mention of “Amhrán na bhFiann” being adopted as the National anthem. However, you do find a record for the appropriation of the Soldier’s Song, described as the National anthem.
From Dáil Éireann - Volume 50 - 22 November, 1933
In Committee on Finance. - Vote 75—National Anthem…“It seemed most desirable that the copyright of the National Anthem should vest in the State and it was deemed inexpedient that an action such as this should proceed in the courts. Accordingly, the Executive Council authorised the Attorney-General to endeavour to acquire on behalf of the State any rights possessed by Messrs. O Cearnaigh and Heeney in the Anthem. After negotiation, and the Attorney-General having satisfied himself that Messrs. O Cearnaigh and Heeney had shown a good title to the rights in the Anthem, a settlement was arrived at in the following terms:—
(1) That the Minister for Finance should pay £980 to Messrs. Peadar O Cearnaigh and Michael Heeney;
(2) That the Minister should pay £20 to the Talbot Press, Ltd., Dublin;
(3) That the Minister should pay £150 to Messrs. Miley and Miley in full satisfaction of their costs;
(4) That the Minister should pay £50 to Messrs. O’Hanlon and Robinson, Solicitors for the Dublin Theatre Company, in full satisfaction of their costs;
(5) That Messrs. O Cearnaigh and Heeney and the Talbot Press, Ltd., should cede all rights in the “Soldier’s Song” to the Minister, should stay the action against the Dublin Theatre Company, and should agree to take no further proceedings in respect of breach of copyright or of royalties claimed; that the Talbot Press, Ltd., should be allowed to dispose of, for their own profit and without payment of any further royalties, any stock of the “Soldier’s Song” printed by them and in existence at the time of settlement.
An agreement embodying the settlement was executed by the parties on 20th October, 1933.”Note that Kearney was paid for the words ie the English version.
Anyhow, I’ll be supporting France as my mum is one of the Saxon Foes.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 02:02 PMdarth - if you want to see something enough, you will find it. the last time i was back home i stood beside a guy who was very definitely not alickadoo, and not from a grammar school - he was there with about half a dozen family members. i don’t know whether he came from a council estate, and frankly don’t give a damn.
there’s no orange there - what do you expect for a team that plays in white and red?
yes most people will have gone to grammar school, that being where most rugby is played at that age. but since when have all people who went to grammar schools been members of the upper middle classes?? i went to 2 in NI, and while there were a few rich kids at each one - the type you seem to have such contempt for - there were a hell of a lot from backgrounds that were of average or below-average affluence.
like i said i think the playing of gstq would have been a nice touch - a nod to all those who have stood respectfully for the irish anthem in the past - i was actually quite glad to see that the irfu were a little bit rabbit in the headlights on the issue. it said to me that the institution really doesn’t have an opinion or set of protocols for political sensitivities like this - they are (generally) modern, professional irishmen who are there to administer a sport. a decidedly healthy approach if you ask me (i’ll not draw comparisons to other sports on the island..oh wait.. i just have:-)) they were there to play a match - they suddenly had this issue put to them - they pragmatically took the path of least resistance - then (the important bit) they played and won the match.
“irfu towers” will have no opinion on whether or not you’re “welcome” - they certainly won’t stop you coming to games, and adding whatever you bring to an already diverse crowd.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 02:19 PM
