Thursday, September 20, 2007
It’s ‘that song’ wot sunk us…
I’m going to try and do a vox pop in Paris tomorrow on what Irish rugby fans really do think about Ireland’s Call. Shane Hegarty’s picked up some hostility towards it in within the pages of today’s Irish Times, and on RTE. Frank McNally is possibly on to something when he notes that “...as a song to unify Ireland’s two communities, it has succeeded well, if only because music-loving Catholics and Protestants seem to hate it equally.”
Mick Fealty @ 03:03 PM
The problem stems from what people see the team as representing- the Irish nation or the island of Ireland.
Some (Billy and paid) seem to have difficulty with the concept that not all who live on the island are Irish eg “jam-packed to the ceiling with Irishmen and women of all backgrounds, religions and political persuasions” or “our Ulster Prod Countrymen”.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 05:27 PMAs you would expect, anthems are a perennial subject debated on various rugby fan sites.
The concept that an anthem would somehow inspire a player not to drop passes or miss a touch kick seems somewhat flawed.
Ireland has won only one 5 or 6 Nations Grand Slam in 1948, and God Save The Queen was played at Ravenhill, so maybe that anthem inspired the team to their victory?
Ireland beat England at Twickenham in 2004 and 2006 when Ireland’s Call was played… but managed to lose the majority of home games in the 1990s even though Amhrán na bhFiann was played at Lansdowne Road.
Maybe it had something to do with the team in the 2000s being a lot better than the team of the 90s?
Personally, I think Ireland’s Call is fine. OK, it isn’t up there with La Marseillaise or Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau when it comes to rousing tunes, but what else is? Certainly not Amhrán na bhFiann or God Save The Queen.
If someone comes up with something better, then I’d support it, and a fan has started a petition here http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ReplaceIrelandsCallMF0001/ but until someone does, I’ll be belting out Ireland’s Call.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 05:49 PMThere already exists “a rousing Orange Tune ... with the words from a Green Lyricist” and composed by an Armagh man. Lord Nelson uses the melody of The Sash. Can’t see it being sung at a rugby game however!
LORD NELSON
(Tommy Makem)Lord Nelson stood in pompous state,upon his pillar high
And down along O’Connell Street he casta wicked eye
He thought how this barbaric race had fought the British Crown
Yet they were content to let him stay right there in Dublin town!CHORUS: So remember Brave Lord Nelson, boys,
He has never known defeat
And for his reward they stuck him up
In the middle of O’Connell Street!For many years, Lord Nelson stood, and no one seemed to care
He would squint at Dan O’Connell who was standin right down there
He thought the Irish love me or they wouldnt let me stay,
All except that band of blighters that they call the IRA!And then in nineteen sixty six, on March the seventh day,
A bloody great explosion made Lord Nelson rock and sway!
He crashed, and Dan O’Connell cried,in woeful misery
Now twice as many pigeons will come and shit on me!CHORUS (final) So remember brave Lord Nelson,boys,
He has never known defeat!
And for his reward they blew him up
In the middle of O’Connell Street!Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:03 PM“Setting the right pre-match mood, pressing the right mental buttons, can be critical. Singing Amhrán na bhFiann always fired me up. You take pride in your national anthem. The French have La Marseillaise, the song which asks the soldiers to walk together to beat the enemy and the need for the blood of the enemy to fertilise their soil”
So spake Trevor Brennan in today’s Irish Times -showing his great awareness of the views of both traditions on the island. Of course one should be aware that the last time Trev heard someone with a Non Iron accent in a rugby crowd he tried to remove their head.
Ireland’s call is dreadful but if it lets both sets of players and supporters join in then I have to disagree with Trev.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 06:45 PMWasn’t A Nation Once Again mooted as the future Irish National Anthem by the IRB or the Fenians or some-such way back in the day?
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 08:07 PMa complete red herring of an issue - the anthem before is all very well, but 1 second after kick-off it makes balls-all difference - the only thing that matters is how good you are at rugby.
let’s not forget that two of the best rugby nations ever, australia and nz have absolutely cack anthems.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 08:23 PMTrevor Brennan says:The French have La Marseillaise, the song which asks the soldiers to walk together to beat the enemy and the need for the blood of the enemy to fertilise their soil
I wonder what Trev thinks of The Billy Boys, then...?
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 08:26 PMBonarLaw,
you make it clear at every opportunity that you don’t feel the slightest bit Irish, to the extent that I am beginning to wonder if you will ever convince yourself, and will probably even cheer Ireland’s opposition.
And you have every right not to regard me as your countryman.
But I regard you as my countryman, as is my right.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 08:30 PMWith Mick’s twitchy nervousness about any song that might be construed political, in order to find favour, I can only suggest that beautiful ballad by Fathers Ted and Douglas, “My Lovely Horse” which once came so close to being a Eurovision hit. I am quite sure that it would offend none. Except maybe donkeys and people who don’t like horses and maybe people with ugly oul’ nags and maybe.... oh, forget about it, it was probably a bad idea anyway.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 08:55 PMI don’t really get why ‘Ireland’s Call’ gets all the abuse about having crap lyrics. What national anthem actually has great lyrics? Apart from the Soldier’s Song being offensive to me, when used in an All-Ireland context, from any of teh English lyrics I’ve seen for it it all seems a big load of waffle anyway.
I think ‘Ireland’s Call’ serves its purpose - i.e. to unite the 2 Irish traditions playing and watching the game. Personally, inclusiveness aside, I actually quite like it too.
Rory
‘My Lovely Horse’ - possibly my favourite Father Ted episode ever!
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 09:16 PMBelieve me all my “twitchy nervousness” is focused on what’s going to happen on the pitch tomorrow night Rory.
Posted by on Sep 20, 2007 @ 09:17 PM“Honest question do any Unionist people support the team.”
Posted by Newbie on Sep 20, 2007 @ 04:43 PM
Had to laugh at this. My father remembers a Dublin Prod on his way to Lansdowne Rd to support Ireland during the 50s. He said there’d be 60,000 at Lansdowne today. Somebody told him there was only one stadium in Ireland that would hold such a crowd (obviously Croke Park). The Dublin Prod proceeded to pull out a miniature Union Jack and declared “you’ll never beat that”. Times have obviously changed if rugby can now be seen as an expression of Irish nationalism.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 01:38 AM*The only reference is to the 300 Spartans ffs.*
I always thought the reference to “three hundred men and three men” was to the defence of Rome by Horatius and his two comrades at the Tiber bridge.
Anyway I think my main objection to “Ireland’s Call” relates to the “Oyer-lund! Oyer-lund!” bit. It just brings to my mind the image of big drunken south Dublin rugger buggers in the Pavillion Bar, Trinity College on a Friday night all boozey and homo-erotic with the ‘guoys’ (that’s ‘guys’ to English speakers), gawd they were appalling, surpassed only by the weedy, whiney, chip on the shoulder Student Union types congregating in the Buttery Bar.
No wonder I went to drink in O’Neill’s.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 02:52 AMYep, “My lovely horse” is the logical choice, but failing that how about cribbing from the GAWA and a chorus of “We’re not New Zealand, we’re southern Ireland ( with a token Ulster prod)”
Allons enfants de la patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrive!Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 08:09 AMI suspect there is a correlation between those who object to Ireland’s Call and those who were unhappy at the Southern anthem being dropped*.
* Only for away** matches
** Matches in Northern Ireland are considered “away” matches.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 08:26 AM“I always thought the reference to “three hundred men and three men” was to the defence of Rome by Horatius and his two comrades at the Tiber bridge.”
I find that I have to agree with Harry Flashman on this.
Don’t worry, Harry, normal service will be resumed as quickly as possible and I can get back to disagreeing with you as God ordained.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 08:30 AMThank God for that Rory, I nearly passed out when I saw who was agreeing with me!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 08:36 AM‘Times have obviously changed if rugby can now be seen as an expression of Irish nationalism’
1. I’m a unionist who turns slightly nationalist when the rugby’s on
2. I can’t think of any sporting or other circumstance where the reverse would obtain.
3. My sporting nationalism sits very comfortably inside the warm paradox of my political unionism. I get more jollies from Ireland’s call than I ever did reciting Betty’s insipid dirge.
By god, we’re a dogged people!
Can I do this again, please:
http://legitimatetangent.blogspot.com/
Thanks!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 08:41 AMBit off topic but does anyone know what the French press have been saying about O’Gara and his private life? Heard O’Driscoll on the radio this morning complaining about it but neither he nor the interviewer alluded to the nature of the allegations.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 09:07 AMPerhaps Mick will start up a thread after Ireland’s imminent return in defeat on the unusual place the IRFU has in the island’s psyche.
I freely admit to antipathy to the team I’m told I should be supporting for reasons well detailed elsewhere. But I’d be lying if I said there wasn’t also an element of contempt for the rugger bugger types in blazers-from Belfast and Fermanagh primarily - who tend to be solicitors, headmasters, or other pillars of the soft prod middle class- and who are primary export to France this week.
In a political sense they are the garden centre prods- Ken Maginnis excepted-and I defy any normal human being not to recoil from these bowtie’n’blazer wearing, gin ‘n’tonic guzzling, golf club storytelling opinionated bores- many of whom do pollute the stand at Ravenhill too it must be said.They’re really aping their class brethren in the English RFU-similarily loathsome specimens (omigod I’m turning into a class warrior)
At least cricket, in the north west at least, is a working class game, as is the real sport involving a ball.
Late sporting news- Chelsea announce new club aftershave
U Go BossI’ll get ne sash
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 09:12 AMAs compromises go, i think Ireland’s Call is acceptable. Personally, I like Amhran na Bhfiann even though, shamefully, i don’t know all the words. However amhran doesn’t include everyone and I want everyone to feel ownership of the team.
If the choice is a good tune that excludes some people (amhran) or a mediocre tune that doesn’t exclude anyone (Ireland’s call) then I will go with the latter. If someone can find a better inclusive tune that Ireland’s call, i have no objection to switching to that.Did the Bot really all join in Ireland’s call when we bate England in croker? That would have been fantastic. That match was very poorly timed from a personal perspective for me, it was on the TV when my (Irish) parents first met my (English) parents-in-law. It would have been impolitic for any of us to say “come on, hammer those english b*strds” even though that was what we were all thinking!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 09:23 AM“I think ‘Ireland’s Call’ serves its purpose - i.e. to unite the 2 Irish traditions playing and watching the game. Personally, inclusiveness aside, I actually quite like it too.”
Diluted Orange sums it up best for me. I like the lyrics and the chorus.
I especially liked the rendition at Croker against England. http://youtube.com/watch?v=eIxe5ooQtqI
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 09:37 AMMick, could you not give the crowd a rendition of one of your favourite rugby songs instead?
NZ has the haka. Perhaps Ireland needs something that touches the soul of our being.
Why not drop the anthems and devise an ‘experience’ that lifts the home team and demoralises the opposition?
How about something from Different Drums of Ireland (on myspace.com)? Can you imagine a soft build up of tin whistles and bodhrans leading on to the skirl of the pipes (vid) and rising to a crescendo of lambeg drums - all to a background wave of ‘drums and drums’ circling the stadium?
As a matter of courtesy the opposing locks should be obliged to play the lambegs in the style of Willie Drennan (vid). That would be the equivalent of a ten point starter for the home team!!
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 09:41 AMI’ve been involved in numerous debates on the issue of anthems on various rugby sites. I think Ireland’s Call has been generally welcomed by the NI rugby community who finally saw an attempt by the IRFU to introduce a single unifying anthem to represent the whole team. We have always realised that Ireland the rugby team represented the unified team of north and south together and as we had no anthem representing “us” before we are inclined to accept it without questioning just how great an anthem it really is.
Our friends on the other side of the border have a different problem. Many of them have grown up hearing Amran na bFiann in Lansdowne road before Itreland matches and never considered for a moment that this Ireland team was anything other than the National Rugby team of the Irish state, some of them may have realised that there were a few northerners there occasionally but they almost definitely didn’t think of it as a two state team.
With the introduction of Ireland’s call they are having to confront this reality. But they look at their own anthem which they have been so used to singing for the team and then they look at Ireland’s call and find it inferior. They don’t understand why they should have to give up their heritage just so that a couple of northerners aren’t made to feel uncomfortable. They fail to see that this uncomfortableness does nothing for team cohesion on the pitch prior to an important game.
After much debate more are comiing to see that a single unifying song instead of Amran na bFiann would be a good thing but thay find it hard to support Ireland’s call as that song.
I think that we will get there but it may be years before Ireland’s call is either so ingrained that it becomes accepted by all or (more than likely) we may have to sacrifice Ireland’s call and Amran na bFuiann together for a new song which gets all-island recognition.
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:05 AMWhat about Lillibullero, perhaps with new lyrics? It’s been a nationalist anthem, a unionist anthem, a rousing battle tune and - thanks to the BBC world service - has global recognition?
Posted by on Sep 21, 2007 @ 10:08 AM
