Thursday, July 24, 2008
“It is a small element who were involved..”
An interesting convergence of stories in west Belfast where we had been told previously that “volunteers” had been “working in their communities on the streets” and “patrolling” Belfast neighbourhoods. A matter of days after Fr Aidan Troy highlighted a “suspected INLA extortion campaign” three men were reported to have been arrested in Poleglass and UTV noted that “Police say community representatives in the area had also reported a number of extortion attempts in recent days.” Meanwhile the Irish News front-page today carries a report of “community worker” Martin Kelly whose home was attacked by up to 40 people, his son assaulted, and his family “ordered [] to leave the district within 24 hours”. According to a BBC report [not included in their online version which adds, “One man who was arrested has been released on police bail"] this happened after an Andersonstown News article was printed about the St James Community Watch of which Mr Kelly is a member - Mark has noted that particular story here, “Who is watching the Community Watch?”. Adds My mistake, the BBC report didn’t refer to that previous article. It actually referred to the reaction when the Andersonstown News reported this incident. The background detail would seem to be relevant though. From the Irish News [subs for now]
The 48-year-old ran from work to his home at St James’ Road after a panicked phone call from his wife who told him that a gang had gathered outside and were chanting about burning the house down.
Mr Kelly is also quoted in the report
“This is a personal vendetta against me because every weekend I am out on the streets trying to keep the area safe.”
And from Sinn Féin councillor Marie Moore
“It is a small element who were involved in this antisocial behaviour and I would ask the community to stand by their own area and to give support to Martin and his family.”
Pete Baker @ 12:40 PM
As Chris says, on the surface this looks straightforward. The problem is the size of the mob and the confidence they had that they could do what they wanted unimpeded.
morgys comments only make it more curious. Political? how?
If the News of the World is interested there is some proper investigative journalism needing done.
Too risky, - Thought so.
Posted by on Jul 24, 2008 @ 11:48 PM“The problem is the size of the mob and the confidence they had that they could do what they wanted unimpeded. “
Yes....it shows it wasnt perhaps just a ‘small element’ but there must be some specific trigger / circumstance behind this. We are not being told the full truth - not by Mr Kelly I stress, who seems to have had a terrible experience - but there seems to be some trend here.
What is actually going on in this area and what triggered this? Fights in West Belfast happen every day. Who ‘placed’ this one in the media?
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 07:17 AMLurig,
as a person from the west, I agree with your sentiments on some days, usually bad days, in the summer when the sun is shining and I go for a walk from my very quiet mixed street down onto the lower springfield and then onto the Falls and down past Divis. Such soul destroying, blood boiling sights and sounds you are unlikely to find anywhere. But not everyone here is like that. The overwhelming manjority of people are decent and hard-working, it’s just that the scum are so visible and loud.
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 08:42 AM‘On the part of who?’
the person who came under attack is a sf member
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 09:58 AMmr kellys account in the irish news said his house came under attack for two hours not true
he also claimed on the bbc newsline that he had to fight them off for an hour and a half also not true
from the time first shouting started at the distubance until the psni arrived on the scene was ten minutes and they arrived with 4 jeeps and 4 cars the area was clear 45 minutes after when the psni left the scene there was no damage done to the property which the papers should have found amazing after 40 people attacked a house for two hours there wasn’t a window broken
the person in the van was trying to get his drunken soninto the van and take him home not ram the house as claimed but this man was also drunk and was arrested drunk driving (the drunken son had approached the house mouthing off because mr kelly had ejected him from a local bar where he works as a doorman this doubled with the long standing family dispute led to the escalation)
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 10:16 AMThanks Morgy - sounds a lot more plausible.
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 10:56 AMAre the “40 thugs” alleged to actually be “dissident” republicans?
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 04:15 PMMorgy, you seem to know a lot about this, I take it you’re part of the eirigi faction (if that’s what its called) of the st james community watch.
Am I right in guessing that you appear to be defending the attack on Mr Kelly?
The ringleader of the attack is a well known thug and it would be pretty sad if you’re aligning yourself with him.
If this is eirigi’s attempt to bring themselves into mainstream politics, then they will fail considerably. Not that I think they’ll be successful anyway, too many chiefs (and rockets) methinks.
West Belfast and the rest of the nationalist electorate will continue to speak loud and clear. Small squabbles and maniacs will be rejected. In any event, Eirigi will get fed up once the novelty has worn off, or once they realise how many people are actually shaking their heads in disbelief, thinking ‘god love that wee squad, what a crowd of self publicists and egotists’.
And if you do know anyone in Eirgi, ask them to start graffiting outside their own houses. Let’s make West Belfast more attractive, not graffiti laden.
Posted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 07:15 PM“If this is eirigi’s attempt to bring themselves into mainstream politics, then they will fail considerably. “
Sorry but I am confused and increasingly reminded of that scene in Life of Brian:
BRIAN:
Are you the Judean People’s Front?REG:
Fuck off!BRIAN:
What?REG:
Judean People’s Front. We’re the People’s Front of Judea! Judean People’s Front. Cawk.FRANCIS:
WankersPosted by on Jul 25, 2008 @ 07:38 PMIs this not a rejection of paramilitary control over republican neighbourhoods by those who were too young to be part of the movement or who are now outside it?
The Community Watch and Restorative Justice schemes, following CJI approval, have the green light for long-term government funding. That means they aren’t going anywhere. But it seemed to me that plenty of young people were saying, effectively, ‘fuck that, I’m not doing what you or anyone else tells me to.’
It’s not surprising that SF are mismanaging the process of becoming community police - they shouldn’t be allowed to do it without careful guidance and supervision. So the allegations like the assault on a youth of thirteen don’t arise.
Nor is it surprising that the PSNI Community Policing budget has been cut to zero in favour of restorative justice, but it’s still the wrong approach.
These projects will be poorly managed, there will be continued revolt by those who understandably question their authority. But to those who do, I would say be very careful not to fall into the trap that’s been set. Governments need a threat to justify things like curfews. Prisons are a business, and people grow businesses and look for new markets. The hands behind the paramilitary-control hangover of the local solution approach are not only SF’s. By attacking the community protection rackets, you’ll give them a role for years to come. By reporting them to the PSNI, if any crimes are committed, they’ll have to disappear quickly or shape up quickly.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 06:58 AMKelly has a cheek to appear on any news programme yapping about the alleged attack on his house. he and his wannbe cronies have tortured the youth of his area for more than ten years. they are laughed at by all who know them and I also noted in todays Irish News a story about “community activists” rallying at Kellys house in a show of support for him and his family. Two living legends,who live a stone throw away form Kelly are highly respected across Belfast and beyond were noted by their absence. They know a bad bet when they see one.!
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 07:44 PMAh, the fog begins to clear. There’s more to this than hoods. Would be Black Panthers are involved.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:25 PMAh, the fog begins to clear. There’s more to this than hoods. Would be Black Panthers are involved
yes,Would be Black Panthers are involved, Kelly is part of the local “community watch” group that printed the now infamous picture in their newssheet. Many of the 137 members have distanced themselves from this group in the past week and a signed letter from them is enroute to the Andytown news letters page. chances of it seeing the light of day are slim as the shinners will get their friend and comrade marty miller to censure it as community watch is nothing more than SF reserve police force.
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 12:14 AMAP,
Maybe the Irish News would have been the place to send the letter.
There’s something I don’t get here. Perhaps you could clarify. Andytown News criticised the CW group in the first place over the Black Panther stuff, so it seems unlikely that it (the BP stuff) originated from SF members of the group. Is it the case that éirígí members had become involved in the CW group and that they (and perhaps others) are now standing down due to SF reasserting control after the Black Panther episode? Are these tensions connected to the disturbance reported above?
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 04:17 AMSeems to me that a family home was attacked by a mob.
Local people defended the home until the police arrived.
The mob attacked the police.
Identified members of the mob have been torturing the local community for years.
But hey, this is Slugger!
Lets turn it into an attack on Republicans and permit whatever allegations we choose to be posted by whoever we like against the victims of the attack.
Trying to gain an understanding of whats going on on the ground through Slugger is like planning a holiday in Zimbabwe on the basis of an interview with Mugabe.
Last time I visit this shithole of a site.Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 09:24 AMwe will miss you terribly observer
except we know you will be back
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 12:49 PMA number of points need cleared up here,
1 The C/W is and always been controled by SF members.
2 The people writing letters to A/town news justifying the Black panthers photo are SF members.
3 A family home was not attacked by a mob of 40 people ( There was no damage to the house)
4local people did not defend the house until the PSNI arrived (there was no attack on the house, therefore the house didnt need defended)
5 One person from the gathered crowd assaulted a female PSNI officer and was arrested.
6 This only became news 4 days later when SF contacted A/town news on what was clearly a slow news week.
7 If Mr Kelly is such an upstanding community worker then why did the majority of community activists and local republicans fail to attend the rally in support of Mr Kelly and his family.Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 02:15 PMandy has a point to an extent. myself and a core of friends stayed out every weekend watching for attacks on our area from loyalists. same people every time. we were laughed at by people heading home drunk knowing we were the idiots who were looking after their interests. in those days parents made sure their kids were out of harms way. now parents are unable to or are unwilling to control their offspring which has culminated in the attack onn martin kelly annd his family. in a roundabout way i would like to ask andy and morgy, are you happy to let the scumbag element rule st james,s because the next burglary ,assault or rape victim could belong to you. there are a lot of great kids in st james,s but there is an awful lot of wankers also. they drag a once proud area down. i for one would rather walk past the c/w on my way home than be confronted by these so called angels. i know a lot of their parents and they are good people but they need to get their heads out of the sand. to say martin kelly and his ilk hav been torturing the kids in st james,s for the past 10 years is total balix.there is a hardcore of bullies and thugs there and everyone knows who they are. they should be ostracised. question for morgy and andy. if some dickhead called your mother/wife /daughter a whore would u do nothing? i await your reply.
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 08:31 PMyou say that you and a core of friends stayed out every weekend watching for attacks from loyalists. What were you going to do if loyalists did attack the area?
you also used the term “in those days parents made sure their kids were out of harms way” just how far into history are you going here.
then you go on to list a number of crimes that could happen tomothers/wives/daughters etc. the one crime that you forgot to mention was.... what if some bullyboy wannabe C/W member wants to make a name for himself and over reacts and attacks a member of my family? who do I report this to?
PS this incident started in a local club where Mr Kelly is the doorman at weekends, is this an extention of his community watch duties or a job that he gets paid to do?
I look forward to your answers!
PPS could you also provide an answer to point 7 on my last post.
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 09:57 PMI lived in the area a long time ago and was involved in the nightwatch at sensitive times.
“you say that you and a core of friends stayed out every weekend watching for attacks from loyalists. What were you going to do if loyalists did attack the area?”
We put ourselves in the way.
Surely you know this?“what if some bullyboy wannabe C/W member wants to make a name for himself and over reacts and attacks a member of my family? who do I report this to?”
The police.
On your earlier point 5
“5 One person from the gathered crowd assaulted a female PSNI officer and was arrested.”I don’t think he was arrested. My understanding is that he ran off and has yet to be apprehended.
Posted by on Jul 27, 2008 @ 10:12 PMre; Exjimmy
could you explian what “We put ourselves in the way.” means, because I have checked lost lives and it fails to mention any members of C/W killed in action defending the area from loyalists.
Regards the person that assulted the PSNI woman who you claim ran away, are you willing to inform the police of this persons name and/or whereabouts as you have stated in your post that the police should be contacted if a C/W member oversteps the mark.
Posted by on Jul 28, 2008 @ 07:26 AMso andy ,you have to die to get your your notice.
Posted by on Jul 28, 2008 @ 06:27 PMalso andy. if you are from st james,s you wouldnt be asking such daft questions.why dont you ask your parents. maybe they stood with us but by the sound of you, they werent
Posted by on Jul 28, 2008 @ 06:47 PMshould have read they werent there. easy to shout from the sidelines andy. get a life. answer my question andy. would you rather your mother walked home past c/w or a bunch of scumbags who abuse anyone who has the misfortune to walk past them?
Posted by on Jul 28, 2008 @ 06:58 PMas for history andy, it wasnt a million years ago and im not drawing a pension.if you,re from st james,s you must know what has happened over the years. sadie larmour.skipper burns.paddy mc allister. how can you stop murder squads that had the back-up of the british establishment. but by puting people on street corners who knows what was thwarted. im no fucking hero but while there were people standing at corners then your ma and da were able to produce you. they shouldnt have bothered
Posted by on Jul 28, 2008 @ 07:29 PM
