Saturday, June 16, 2007
Is the Order up for tackling the Elephant?
With just four weeks to this year’s July 12th parades, the Orange Order have signalled their intention to get tough on paedophiles and have issued a not welcome message (of sorts) to the street drinking battalions accompanying the jolly Brethren on parade.
Of course, the elephant on procession remains the overtly sectarian element, who will once again insist on parading in unwelcome confines and those who will use the occasion as an excuse to raise the flag and bunting in ‘mixed’ residential/ commercial areas.
So what prospect is there of progress on these fronts, which would do more to transform the Order’s image at a stroke than any number of ‘family-oriented’ bouncy castles and face painters at the Field? Any thoughts out there?
Chris Donnelly @ 03:56 PM
frank, they’ll run away in terror and never return if you show kindness.
and you’ll be laughing yer ginger bollocks off !
what was it Bobby Sands said about the children?aye agree with your diagnosis, just waiting for Cruimh to call me a junkie, and its game over :)
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 08:24 PMhmm i wonder if Mad has davids permision and whether he got his talking points yet lol
Parc
What you say has a wistfull touch about it and i would hope it would work but at this point i think the Loyal order of terrorists would just view it as weeknessMaybe someday but until they get rid of the UDA and UVF banners they are hardly welcome are they
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 09:43 PMindeed sean, maybe next year then.
Recent news suggests the banners are going, certainly on some estates, and with the drunken binging being frowned upon, its all going in the right direction.Mad is schizo, he likes Balrog, but then has to indulge in some good old sectarian hatred here and on ATW.
Like sneaking off to visit an aul whore, he needs to get a bit dirty.
The final outcome may be good though.Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 10:04 PMParc
Lol I accused him of being a suck up on an Atw thread and as far as I know that comment still standsmust have frosted his pumpkin some though
Anyways yes I agree the OO has certainly atleast in appearance started down the road to the aacceptance of equality and I hope this is a course they can follow straight and true
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 11:03 PMGerrylvsCastro, I drive through Newry every day to work and it’s not republicans who have flags up at major junctions, it’s loyalists. Maybe the republicans have loads of flags in their estates but they don’t seem to feel the need to ‘claim’ main roads they way loyalists do.
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 11:14 PMgerry lvs castro,
you raise an interesting point. to be honest i personally think there should be a complete ban on ALL british and irish flags in the six counties outside sporting occasions, commemorations of the dead etc…
i know this is unrealistic however.
as i am sure you know there is no real answer to you question although pending the complete end to all this nonsense if a degree of sensitivity and commonsense were shown it would help… (ie restrict these displays of flags and arches to residential areas which are broadly supportive of them, i really think there is no case for this stuff in town centres which should be open to all even in 100 percent towns of one persuasion or the other… but even there sensitivity is in order.. in aughnacloy the orange hall on the main st flies a solitary union jack for month of july.. it looks dignified to me (but i am not a local)
really everything should be done to quietly ecnourage both communites to abandon all kerbstone painting and flags on lamp posts… i remember even the IRSP saying this a few years ago (when off their own bat saying they would not be putting up any flags themselves any more)” “it is said that dogs mark out their territoy… we are humans and not dogs we have a choice”..
now if they can be that enlightened i think the rest of us can be too.
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 11:14 PMParcifal,
I remember our band marching past a catholic wedding in Maghera on the Black Saturday. We are a hymn tune band and the only party songs we have are the sash, orange and blue (and follow follow). The wedding guests egged on the playing of the sash and then joined in when it was played. No bottles etc were thrown and it seemed quite good fun, the police seemed to think it was quite funny as well.
Only one case and by all means dismiss it but for what it is worth
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 11:36 PMNice one Turgon, I am moved by that.
sean Mad knows he’s a scallywag; and he’s getting a clean-up on Balrog :)
Posted by on Jun 16, 2007 @ 11:45 PMwhat would happen if the Nationalists came out of their homes and greeted the marchers with a friendly wave, cup of tea, something like that; you know neighbourliness, I’m curious.
Has it ever been tried?Posted by parcifal on Jun 16, 2007 @ 07:48 PM
Believe it or not, what parcifal sugested was actually tried by the Drumcree Faith and Justice group on the Garvaghy Road in the mid-80’s. While, even then, it took over 1,000 police and troops to secure the route and hem people into their homes, members of the DFJ were assaulted in full public view by those participating in the “church service” parade from Drumcree. And even though the DFJ furnished the then RUC with video evidence of the attacks, no action was ever taken. A local priest was even assaulted by the OO marchers, on their way to Drumcree, outside St John’s chapel as he made his way into celebrate Mass.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 02:16 AMTurgon,
Good example - here’s another.
Every year when the OO marchers pass the Garvaghy Road Church they break step and skip up and down shouting “Robert Hamill pumpkin head”.GLC,
Forget mathamathical equations. March down the Shankill carring a tricolour and singing republican tunes and you’ll soon see what the political and religious makeup of the area is. I’ll visit you in the Mater!General question I ask of OO members every year and is ignored - Why do you want to dress up in funny garb and march through catholic areas?
If it’s about marching why not march up and down the Shankill Road every Saturday, where you would be welcomed. You could form up at Woodvale Park at 10am every week and march up and down the Shankill until it gets dark. There are plenty of pubs and chinese takeaways where you could indulge you orange culture. Unfortunately there would be no catholics to annoy, beat up or burn out.Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 09:09 AM“what would happen if the Nationalists came out of their homes and greeted the marchers with a friendly wave, cup of tea, something like that; you know neighbourliness, I’m curious.
Has it ever been tried?”For those who are interested? Nationalists/Republicans/Catholics/Roman Catholics or the other side or whatever other name you may which use, Did in fact come out to greet Orangemen and women on the 12th of July morning and on the return journey they would be on the streets with bottles of tap water or lemonade for the bandsmen and walkers.
If you don’t believe me why not contact some of the older people who lived in the village of ligoneil, which is only two miles from the centre of Belfast.
If secterianism and bigoted attitudes are to be a thing of the past then maybe Slugger shouldn’t be providing a platform for people who want to (stir it)
When goodmen do nothing Etc.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 11:31 AMChris, Gerry and Co dropped their Athboy strategy ages ago. Philip McGuigan was too slow to get on message; he’s no longer an MLA.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 11:56 AMdiverse stories guys, I recall Ghandi marching to the salt mines, all day his supporters we’re beaten back with sticks, 1000’s lay injured.
It made headline news across the world.
Shortly after India was granted independence.Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 12:25 PMparcifal
“Now these parades would freak out, believe me, they would run away in terror at the sign of welcome and friendliness.
You’d have taken away their whole raison d’etre of marching, cos you’re not being wound up about it.”
-
This whole idea that marches only exist to wind up nationalists is very narcissistic. I guess the gazillion parades that go up and down the Shankill Road every year are just to provide “cover” for the “real” ones that go past Catholics, and the 1,988 that are uncontested are just a big elaborate bluff to cover for the 12 that are contested.
No doubt such narcissism exists across the divide too. I’m sure that there are people who think Gaelic sports and the Irish language on TV, or Gerry Adams insisting on opening every press conference in Irish are just there to provoke and alienate Protestants. Then again on the latter they could very well have a point.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 12:27 PMdave
I presume the Nationalists/Republicans/Catholics/Roman Catholics or the other side or whatever other name you may which use were delighted to be surrounded by loyalists, the orange order and masked terrorists during protests a couple of years ago. Ambulances were turned away and the fire brigade attacked when trying to reach Nationalist homes, set on fire by unionists/loyalists/orange order/uvf/uda etc…
The order seemed quite content to be accompanied by senior members of the uvf during their return leg of the tour of the north parade to ligionel also.
Ahhhh, the good old days !!!!
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 02:30 PMChris Donnelly - “those who will use the occasion as an excuse to raise the flag and bunting in ‘mixed’ residential/ commercial areas.”
As Ulster is British and part of the UK, Unionists in mixed areas have every right to fly the Union and NI flags. No one asks in Eire if it’s OK to fly the Irish Tricolour and Protestants were forced to conform - or face the consequences.
Dave - “If sectarianism and bigoted attitudes are to be a thing of the past then maybe Slugger shouldn’t be providing a platform for people who want to (stir it)”. Indeed. It seems like Chris Donnelly is trying to stir it up with this one. Perhaps Unionists should stop commenting on such threads. It’s everyones right to fly the flag of the UK and our part of the UK. We don’t need to apologise and we don’t ask people in Eire to apologise when they put up their flag.
Hunter - “I’m sure that there are people who think Gaelic sports and the Irish language on TV, or Gerry Adams insisting on opening every press conference in Irish are just there to provoke and alienate Protestants.” Yes, but the Great One with Beard (GOB) is a Republican. In GOB’s world of double-speak, he’s just expressing his culture while he believes it’s the duty of every Republican to deny Unionists their Ulster British culture.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 04:36 PMSo what prospect is there of progress on these fronts, which would do more to transform the Order’s image at a stroke than any number of ‘family-oriented’ bouncy castles and face painters at the Field? Any thoughts out there?
Maybe if the shinners quit stirring up people stupid enough to believe them then there wouldn’t be much of a problem at all. You only need to think Brendan McKenna…
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 05:50 PMFYU - Brendan Mac Cionnaith is history as far as SF goes.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 06:04 PMfyu
Maybe when the Orange Order & its followers stop commemorating mass murderers & forming lodges specifically for terrorists they might be seen as ‘not much of a problem’. You only need to think of Joe Bratty, Brian Robinson, Basher Bates etc..etc..
As regards orange order bands Brian fenney summed it up in an article a couple of years ago.
“some flute bands hired by lodges to play at marches are in reality UDA or UVF units that use band practice in Orange halls as a cover for drilling.”
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 07:33 PMoops typo.. Brian Feeney
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 07:38 PMFrank, what is wrong with former paramilitaries expressing thir culture in a different way-whether it’s through music, art, bonfire celebration or any other legitimate cultural expression?
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 07:40 PMAnother flawed post by Chris.
First he thinks that Sammy Wilson is in the Orange Order, then be ridicules the Order for excluding paedophiles and now he thinks Northern Ireland and Union flags should only be erected in areas that are 100% Protestant.
It amazes me that on one hand he claims the order is declining and will be extinct by 2015 yet in 2007 he starts a multitude of posts slating it, does he feel his posts will be a catalyst for the orders decline. I think he is overestimating his own powers.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 07:56 PMRoger
There is no such thing as a northern ireland flag
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 08:07 PMJamie
I beg to differ.
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 08:14 PMIs it not a little premature for Chris Donnelly to be prediciting the Orders decline by 2015, is there even sufficient evidence to back up claims that the order is declining?
Posted by on Jun 17, 2007 @ 08:53 PM
