Thursday, November 27, 2008
“Irishness Incompatible With Britishness”
Mary McAleese, President of the Occupied Twenty-Six Counties© (OTSC), today made a historic visit to Brakey Orange Hall at Bailieborough in Co. Cavan.
She quoted as being;
delighted to be in the presence of “a good Cavan man, a good Irishman and a good Orangeman.”
A view disputed by RSF with their statement that as usual is not in any linkable format anywhere:
Claims by 26-County President Mary McAleese during a visit to an Orange Hall in County Cavan that it is possible to be both Irish and British are nonsensical, a spokesperson for Republican Sinn Féin has said.
“It is not possible for someone to give their allegiance both to Ireland and to Britain. Britain represents the denial of Ireland’s rights. Orangemen should instead be encouraged to recognise that they are exclusively Irish, and to work for the benefit of the Irish Nation rather than adhering to narrow sectarian Orange ideology.
“To suggest that Unionists are anything other than Irish amounts to a tacit acceptance of Thatcherite claims that the Six Occupied Counties are ‘as British as Finchley’.”
UPDATE thanks to reader Slug here is the link to the speech that so upset RSF.
It is possible to be both Irish and British, possible to be both Orange and Irish. We face into a landscape of new possibilities and understandings. The momentum of these times is, of course, difficult for some and so they lash out in intemperate acts of vandalism that have been visited on some Orange Halls, including Brakey.
Mark McGregor @ 07:54 PM
Shouldnt Irish people be swearing alleigance to Brussels seeing as the EU owns you and that Ireland, be i the Republic alone, or with the North, is nothing but an EU Region?.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:14 PMStraight out of “Sterile Arguments 101”.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:21 PM“Orangemen should instead be encouraged to recognise that they are exclusively Irish, and to work for the benefit of the Irish Nation rather than adhering to narrow sectarian Orange ideology.”
Without taking any sides here, I love it when people come together to work out their shared space and future. It’s so heart-warming. Acceptance of “difference” at its very best, here.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:24 PMMark the RTE site covers the President’s speech in better detail:
This looks like a significant speech.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:26 PMslug,
Thanks for that. Blog updated.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:31 PMRSF does not know what an Irishman is, good or bad.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:37 PMThese views are so silly we should not get involved in any debate.
Lets forget them and move on to the next topic.Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:37 PMHopefully this will send a message to the morons burning Orange Halls and GAA facilities to stop their infantile actions.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:38 PMHeard the president was so upset by the statement from the latest group claiming to be the descendants of the first Dáil that she is considering resignation.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:40 PMPresident McAleese: We have seen Ian Paisley sit down as an equal partner in government with Martin McGuinness. We have heard him describe former Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern as his friend. In those events he did more for reconciliation on this island than libraries of PhDs in conflict resolution.
Wow, praise, indeed!
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 08:58 PMNice speech - astonished that that’s the forst time an Irish President has visited an Orange Hall. Indeed is that true?
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:00 PMDid she really say that about the bigot Paisley? Did she really say that about the man who shares so much of the blame for the misery inflicted on this country over thirty years? Did she really say that that about this disciple of hate? Wow, shame, indeed.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:04 PMI’ve heard of the North being jokingly referred to the occupied territories but never the South as the Occupied Twenty-Six Counties. Just wondering mark who has copyrighted Occupied Twenty-Six Counties©. Is it a pitiful attempt by you or is it RSF to be controversial?
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:06 PMBeen digging and it looks like it is true - wonderful stuff. Well done Mary.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:13 PMAli G was better:
“So is you here on holiday” spoken to Sammy Wilson, after asking “Are you Irish or British”Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:18 PMMy view:
To be honest it seems like a speech drafted by the Alliance party. Fluff and nonsense aspirational bullshit that reads lovely but isn’t based in reality.
The RSF responses seems more genuinely reflective of the true divisions in Irish society.
It does no harm, but pretending there isn’t a major and completely unaddressed rift in Irish society, while a nice read for the chattering classes, is just ignoring the massive elephant of ingrained and pervasive sectarianism.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:25 PMMark McGregor: The RSF responses seems more genuinely reflective of the true divisions in Irish society.
Well, they can’t help that, can they - being right at the fringes themselves. The gap looks wider from the edges rather than the middle.
But I have to confess to being taken aback by your apparent alignment with their position - I had assumed you were red rather than green. Do you feel closer to Dev or to Red Ken?
More to the point - if McAleese is wrong, and RSF is right, what is there for you to hope for in the future, realistically? A selective plague?
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:39 PMI thought RSF believed no-one truly gave allegiance to Ireland except them. Aren’t the rest of us all supposed to be collaborators anyway?
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:58 PMReader,
I may have pasted a RSF view (I think its a first) - that sure as hell doesn’t mean I agree with them on much, if anything.
My comment was about McAleese glossing over divisions while RSF unashamedly demonstrate and highlight them.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 09:59 PMMark
Speaking as someone who is both Irish and British, I welcome the President’s recognition that I exist-its great that someone within nationalism has come forward and said this. I am on the other hand a bit unhappy at your reaction to this but at least you are honest about where you sit.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 10:03 PMSpeaking as someone who is both Irish and Indo caucasian, I regret that nobody passes much remarks. Wish for what you want and accept what you are.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 10:15 PMMark,
Aren’t though RSF, especially in the north, a reflection of that ingrained sectarianism? They tell Orangemen they are Irish, then throw a fit (and some stones!) when they come to Dublin. I think that RSF view sectarianism as a problem of the other side, as too many people do.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 10:23 PMI wish I hadn’t read that speech. More sickening perverse bullshit about the Great Imperialist War. People who use WWI like that have no shame. Whatsoever.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 10:28 PMOh aye Mary, leave out the Ulstermen why don’t yeah!!! Never happened to say it’s possible to be Ullish and British or even Ullish and Irish?
it’ll come.
Posted by on Nov 27, 2008 @ 11:46 PMGaribaldy,
There is much to debate about WWI (how easily it might have been avoided, Britain’s share of blame for encircling Germany with hostile alliances, etc) but I doubt if many of the 200,000 Irishmen who served saw the War as a great Imperialist adventure. Many a patriotic Irishman lost his life in WWI and was clear enough about what he was fighting against - Prussian militarism. Francis Ledwidge, founder and commander of the Louth Irish Volunteers, when asked why he enlisted in the British Army, said, if I quote him correctly, “I would not have it said that they [the Brits] defended us [the Irish] while we merely passed resolutions”. He knew what was at stake.
Posted by on Nov 28, 2008 @ 12:11 AM
