Monday, August 04, 2008
Internment - then and now
As the British political system continues to wrangle over the implications of the 42-day detention legislation, the socialist-republican party éirígí has organised a number of demonstrations to protest against its potential use against Irish republicans and vulnerable communities in Britain.
éirígí is drawing strong parallels between the controversial detention legislation and the introduction of internment in the North 37-years ago.
Indeed, they have billed their August 9 gatherings as both a commemoration of the injustice of internment and a protest against the injustice of 42-day detention.
In addition to the Antrim town, Belfast, Dublin and Lurgan éirígí gatherings, RSF will be holding a protest in Belfast while 32CSM will be doing the same in Dublin.
ADDS: As noted in the comments a 5th éirigí protest will also be held at Enniskillen RUC/PSNI Barrack at 3pm.
Mark McGregor @ 04:20 PM
42 days is a long time. 42 days of sensory deprivation and interrogation seems as though it is enough to break most men.
Many who could hold out for 7 days probably couldn’t go 42!
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:48 PMCitizen Smith and telephone booth jokes how very droll. Pity they ring so hollow when in a very short time éirígí has gone from a few members in Dublin to organising protests at five locations (yes, a fifth will be announced) on the same day around current and historical British criminal injustice.
Thanks to all who decided to stick to the topic.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 02:03 PM“Oh yes and trying to draw a parallel between 42 day detention and internment is just trying to put a fresh wrapper on something the whole community has moved on from”.
cynic,
As far as the British State is concerned the old ones are always the best, to be brought out and dusted down when ever Irish people get a little uppity. You may feel happy with the British government having 42 day detention in its armory but I do not, nor should any freedom loving person.
Or do you really believe it is SF and the DUP who govern the northern statelet. If so lets see how much power the mockneys have if they attempt to pass legislation that the British disagree with.
Still passing legislation is not something the Stormont administration does much of. It must be the least productive government in the history of human kind.
By the way there are still Irishmen in British jails for political offenses and make no mistake the prisons in the north are British jails, as SF’s coalition partners know only to well.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 02:20 PM“in a very short time éirígí has gone from a few members in Dublin to organising protests at five locations (yes, a fifth will be announced)”
Mark
Forgive me but I am forced to note that a number of these 5 sites (wow) are within a quick drive of each other and the start times are staggered. Getting a quick crowd for the cameras (just enough to fill the frame) and them moving on to the next site is the oldest trick in the book. I am of course assuming that the membership aren’t so oppressed that they don’t have access to transport.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 02:55 PMMick
They are still trying to put a fresh wrapper on a dead fish
As for the Jails being British Jails - of course they are. Part of the settlement is that this part of Ireland remains part of the UK. Ergo they are British. That is part of the deal that the vast majority of our fellow citizens signed up to.
Actually they are probably far better than most other British Jails - more modern with better facilities and better regimes (except for women and young offenders of course)
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 03:00 PMWell I’m sure photos will appear on the website and then you can have a wee look and check your theory.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 03:06 PMBy the way Mark as such a progressive socialist party experiencing such a dramatic growth:-
1 why do they only deal with republican issues / causes not those that might affect the majority of people in NI?
2 given their dynamism their web site promises that ‘during 2007’ they will produce a number of important policy papers on issues relevant to the people of ireland. So far there is only one, a paper on ‘Imperialism’ that might have got a B- as an O Level , politics answer circa 1963. Where did all the others go? At the rallies what policies will they have to enthrall the gathered masses of the proletariat?
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 05:02 PMJust for your attention the eirigi web site has just added ENNISKILLEN to its list of areas which are holding protests for commemoration of the injustice of internment 37 years ago and a protest against the injustice of 42-day detention. eirigi are on the move.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 06:02 PMWill there be a protest outside Tooting Bec Tube station?
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 06:36 PM“Neither do Éirigí have a strong leadership figure, whatever your view on leadership, I believe that it is axiomatic to state that no political movement can function without a leader. We can spout out socialist principles, but we are primates, we require a leader.”
Well, if they want a right-wing nationalist Jewish Eurosceptic to lead them, I’m available. But they’re opposed to the cult of personality, don’t you know.
Actually, I quite like this party and wish them well. It’s isn’t yet a crime to have principles.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 09:07 PM‘right-wing nationalist Jewish....’
Is that a roundabout way of saying your a zionist Dave? Albeit not of the Labour variety obviously !
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 10:14 PMIts clear there are multiple protests against 42 day detention without trial which at the same time recall previous detention without trial in Ireland. Fine, if protest isn’t your thing you have the compliant parties at Stormont and Westminster to support. If not, you have the option of various protests.
Its a decision - pub or activism.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 11:50 PMRS, you should be more concerned about the ground that is turning to quicksand beneath your own feet. Salvage your own claim to self-determination before you start worrying about other nationalities.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 01:19 AMIm on firm ground here Dave, oh and Jewish is not a nationality.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 10:02 AM“the vast majority of people who have posted comments so far seem to be more concerned about attacking éirígí than dealing with the issue. ”
There are lots of threads already on 42-day detention. This one is blatant and shameless publicity for a blatant and shameless publicity stunt.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 10:23 AMrepublican stones,
I realize it may be a can of worms, but what do you mean by nationality. if Jews have no nationality as you claim do they belong to a race and if the State of Israel were to last for 100 to1,000 years would that mean Jews had a nationality?
For example you would probably agree that italians and germans have a nationality, yet the states they claim allegiance to are less than 150 years old as unified bodies, and where does this leave the Irish?
I am not having a go but why single jews out as nation free.
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 12:25 PM“Fine, if protest isn’t your thing you have the compliant parties at Stormont and Westminster to support”
So its a choice between the politicians that we elected (imperfect as they are) and a small cabal waiting for the second coming of a true revolutionary socialist republican movement. A group that doesn’t even have a coherent leadership because either
1 they are so disorganized that they cant form one or
2 to try to form one would promote a further split in their ranks on some vital issues like the relative importance of the teachings of Lenin and Trotsky to the development of the class struggle in modern Ireland (ie post 1920)
Mmmmmm.... now what shall I choose to do on a wet Saturday afternoon?
I am afraid that phone box looks less and less attractive!! Even Stormont (Bless ‘em) is more entertaining
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 12:34 PMMick
He didn’t say that Jews had no nationality. He said that being ‘Jewish’ wasn’t a nationality in itself. That’s radically different.
A christian might be a black African from the Hutu tribe or a white American. Both might describe themselves as radically different races. It is a mixed up old world out there. We are all multi-dimensional and, in my view, that’s a very good thing.
Our problem in NI is that we tend to think one dimensionally in terms of
race = religion = politics
and, if you’re not one of us, you must be one of them-uns
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 12:44 PM“Im on firm ground here Dave, oh and Jewish is not a nationality.” - RS
Clever little boy, aren’t you? What do you think Zionist means? It refers to the establishment of the state of Israel. What was your question?
“Is that a roundabout way of saying your a zionist Dave?” - RS
Hence:
“Salvage your own claim to self-determination before you start worrying about other nationalities.” - Dave
Do you even know what nationality means? It simply means one who belongs to a nation. No state is required.
As Mick Hall pointed out, Jews existed as a Nation long before the modern State of Israel was established.
So, I’ll put your ignorance down to your usual practice of talking out of your arse after wiping it with the latest An Phoblacht editorial on the Middle-East rather than portraying an even more vulgar disposition.
Now, how firm is your ground? Israel has nuclear weapons to defend its claim to self-determination, whereas folks in NI signed a document that surrendered their claim and conceded that Ulster is British. ;)
Posted by on Aug 06, 2008 @ 02:18 PMRegards groups size i agree eirigi will if trends continue will be almost as big as RSF in the north, in the six counties eirigi and RSF are both far bigger than the 32csm whose main purpose seems to be to attend IRSP commemorations. RSF would be larger than both eirigi and 32csm combined in the 26 counties.at least for now. eirigi is rapidly growing and there is a visible resurgance in RSF. This can be observed by even the most casual of observer.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2008 @ 08:07 AM‘Jews existed as a Nation long before the modern State of Israel was established.’
Yeah, in biblical times, after they had sacked Jebus which was inhabited before Jews. Are Ethiopian Jews and White western Jews all part of this one nation? Are all christians one nation?
‘Israel has nuclear weapons to defend its claim to self-determination’
Israel was founded on terrorism of civilians and ethnic cleansing, not firm grounds for any claim to self-determination.
So which is you nation Dave, Israel or the jewish nation?Posted by on Aug 07, 2008 @ 10:50 AMJeepers, what is it about the Jews that gets people so excited.
As for eirigi - so far they seem to be concentrating on waving flags at interfaces - best way to get publicity is to stir up a bit of trouble. At least the other republican groups try to tone down the uber-gael stuff in a vague hope of at least looking like they might appeal to the prods.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2008 @ 11:46 AMRSF and 32 SCM and Whatever else is out there should all join hands with eirigi. Maybe that way they can muster 2% of the vote
Posted by on Aug 07, 2008 @ 03:29 PM
