Monday, August 04, 2008
Internment - then and now
As the British political system continues to wrangle over the implications of the 42-day detention legislation, the socialist-republican party éirígí has organised a number of demonstrations to protest against its potential use against Irish republicans and vulnerable communities in Britain.
éirígí is drawing strong parallels between the controversial detention legislation and the introduction of internment in the North 37-years ago.
Indeed, they have billed their August 9 gatherings as both a commemoration of the injustice of internment and a protest against the injustice of 42-day detention.
In addition to the Antrim town, Belfast, Dublin and Lurgan éirígí gatherings, RSF will be holding a protest in Belfast while 32CSM will be doing the same in Dublin.
ADDS: As noted in the comments a 5th éirigí protest will also be held at Enniskillen RUC/PSNI Barrack at 3pm.
Mark McGregor @ 05:20 PM
It will be interesting to see how many show up. Have they booked the phone box at each site?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 05:49 PMMark, can you ask your mates to paint over the graffiti they have covered West Belfast with?
I believe the public will be a lot more appreciative of that.Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 06:11 PMpaul,
can you ask your Sinn Fein mates to stop murdering doormen
robbing banks
selling drugs
and touting on everyone doing the double
can you ask your mates to stop water charges
a lot more important that a bit of graffiti for fucks sake
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 07:37 PM“Mark, can you ask your mates to paint over the graffiti they have covered West Belfast with? I believe the public will be a lot more appreciative of that.” Eh? You what?
They should be praying for the re-introduction of internment or another Bloody Sunday otherwise they will slowly whither on the vine. I expect the usual 80-100,000 people although black propaganda will probably number about 100. Remove MI5 and their agents and it’s the proverbial two men and a dog. The men will be bitter ex IRA and the dog will be the only one not likely to speak in Castlereagh.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 07:42 PMInteresting choice of venues. Wonder why Thiepval wasn’t included? Or indeed Ballykinler, which was the site of the original 1920’s internment camp.
Anyway, the term RUC/PSNI barracks means they can all pretend eh? If it doesn’t rain they might manage double figures.Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 07:44 PMNice to know eirigi agrees with the house of lords??? Privilege and wealth hand in hand with socialism...ahhhh ain’t that nice.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 08:00 PMIs it one of these was on TV the other night talking about “ celebrating internment “ ?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 08:07 PM“Nice to know eirigi agrees with the house of lords??? Privilege and wealth hand in hand with socialism...ahhhh ain’t that nice.”
Are you in favour of 42 day detention?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 08:47 PMMark,
This is more positive than the situation in Dunclug. People will care about internment 42 day and have the right to protest about it. Many of those who were interned will also be the most vocal opponents of current legislation so it is not suprising to hear them protest about it.
I do have another question however, are erigi organised anywhere in Ballymena? I have seen erigi flags at the bottom of dunclug. I have heard reports these flags were linked to the same people who are organising the bonfire during the week. Whats the erigi position on internment bonfires?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 09:00 PMPaint Brush - don’t be such a touchy idiot. Sinn Fein are just as bad.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 10:15 PMPaul,
Mark, can you ask your mates to paint over the graffiti they have covered West Belfast with?
I believe the public will be a lot more appreciative of that.Politically inspired art and graffiti has a long and proud history of conveying social messages throughout the world.
The fact that the richest 20% own 80% of the wealth and there are more British soldiers in Ireland than in Iraq are issues I’m happy to see addressed by whatever medium available. The ‘establishment’ sure as hell aren’t making an issue or impact on either.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28328703@N08/
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 10:45 PMWhenever Mark blogs on éirígí he get a barrage of post in return about phone boxes and the like, often coming from people who in their hearts agree with what he has blogged about or at the very least used to.
It seems éirígí is not going away you guys no matter how much you huff and puff, so why not either engage with it or try challenging the things you disagree with Mark on.
To accuse republicans of ‘meeting in phone boxes, etc’ is not a worthy put down, historically, due to the circumstances, at times republicans have often met in small groups, steadfast in there beliefs and awaiting better days. Confident that their core beliefs will eventually see them and their country through to a thirty two county socialist republic.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 10:57 PMSorry MIck. I wasn’t aware that putting down a splinter group of a splinter group of revolutionary socialists who advocate a communist utopia in Ireland (whether we want one or not) and rely heavily on flat earth marxist claptrap was such a big issue.
Let me say that they have the right to state their views and campaign peacefully and lawfully for them. I respect that.
On the other hand the Phone Box dig was obviously aimed at the numbers that support them. They may be “Confident that their core beliefs will eventually see them and their country through” but the vast majority of the rest of us neither agree nor believe it.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 12:53 AM“The fact that the richest 20% own 80% of the wealth and there are more British soldiers in Ireland than in Iraq are issues I’m happy to see addressed by whatever medium available. The ‘establishment’ sure as hell aren’t making an issue or impact on either.”
Well, perhaps the establishment arent doing it for 3 reasons:-
1 part of the agreement is that this is part of the UK, these are UK troops and are therefore based on their home terrirory (careful of your blood pressure now, but read the small print)
2 very few people give a damn about it. The war is over and they are happy with the status quo on the garrison issue
3 wasn’t it Churchill who said of democracy that it has many defects but the problem is that all the alternatives are worse. So I fear it is with wealth redistribution. Cuba is the stunning example - hey we are all equal...and dirt poor
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:02 AM“political art"…
I was going to say something about how ridiculous (not to mention pretentious) that nomenclature was, but I don’t think I need to.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:07 AM> I was going to say something about how ridiculous (not to
> mention pretentious) that nomenclature was, but I don’t think I
> need to.But hey, do it anyway!
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 07:42 AMthe vast majority of people who have posted comments so far seem to be more concerned about attacking éirígí than dealing with the issue.
maybe youse could clear something up:
are youse all in favour of detaining people for 42-days without charge or trial?
and were youse all in favour of interning hundreds of innocent people for weeks, months and years on end?
if even some of youse are not, it begs a very simple question: what are you doing about it?
it’s true that éirígí is a relatively small organisation, but never forget the margaret mead quote: “never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world, indeed it’s the only thing that ever has.”Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 10:21 AMWith regards to the number of people involved in Éirigí it seems to me that they are doing quite well acutally.
Easy a match in numbers for RSF, at least in the North and far outstripping the 32CSM.
Alas, it seems to me also that they might be taking in a number of individuals who would bring nothing to any movement.
I do not believe that Éirigí represent any electoral challenge to SF whatsoever at the moment, but I suppose a determined fly can sometimes induce an elephant to move.
The main problem with Éirigí, from what I can see is that it is populated mainly be idealogues (read principled people if that be your wish). Ideologues rarely development the pragmatism (read selling out if you want) required to build a political movement.
Neither do Éirigí have a strong leadership figure, whatever your view on leadership, I believe that it is axiomatic to state that no political movement can function without a leader. We can spout out socialist principles, but we are primates, we require a leader.
One more potential future problem for Éirigí is the marriage of Revolutionary Socialsim with Gaelic culturalism. No real problems in Belfast but perhaps Dublin working class socialists it will be found are quite determined to remain English speakers. We shall see. It is a easy marriage on paper, we shall see how they get on after the honeymoon.
But the biggest danger for Éirigí is that they fall into the same trap that the IRSP, Sticks, Super Sticks, RSF etc. etc. have done, i.e. defining themselves, or at least allowing themselves to be defined by what they are not, i.e. NOT Sinn Féin, rather that what they are.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 10:42 AMThat Margaret Mead quote is laughable in the context of this Citizen Smith bunch of jokers. The forecast for Saturday is rain, and the times scheduled are past opening time, so don’t expect much of a turnout.
This has F all to do with 42 days or any sense of history. Any bandwagon will do for twats with too much time on their hands.Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 10:43 AMSo 42 day detention by the British government and internment without trial arent even going to be touched upon on this thread is that right.
I have to say, if politics was an olympic event and the gauge of éirígí’s success was the level of vitriolic pish fired at them on these forums from detached quasi intellectuals they would be gold medalists by now.
the only grouping that i see mounting an effective show of defiance at a draconian piece of punitive legislation across this island are éirígí and they are registering their opposition in 5 different locales. Not bad for a two year old group of ideologues, dissidents, morons, neanderthals, political devoids, traitors etc etc.
half the people on this forum would’nt even have the level of political contacts to mount any political display anywhere with more than their mother, sister and lap top in attendance. So credit where credit is due. they have an idea, they rally people to it and its paying off in increased numbers and support. indisputable!
deal with the issues - either justify internment and its modern equivalents or expose and oppose them - but dont get angry when people have the courage of their convictions and actually stand for something they believe in, whilst all of you pontificate on internet forums.
i’m sure éirígí will take solace in the old adage that - if your complimented by your enemy, you need to examine your conscience. éirígí abú!
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 11:26 AMIt appears that its Ok to join protests about Iraq or Afganistan, and China, or to oppose the use of draconian measures by governments elsewhere. But when it comes to here, then it appears that hypocrisy and double standards apply.
Par for the course, reallyPosted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 12:22 PM“deal with the issues”
Can the issue / event truely be divorced from the organisers as you seem to suggest?
The issue here is “éirígí has organised a number of demonstrations”.
I see therefore both the demonstrations and Éirígí as a legimate point of discussion.
Thats the nature of politics and is most certainely the nature of Slugger. You use the word vitriol, believe you me, this is a very friendly thread compared to most.
Take the oppurtunity and use your opponents arguements to strengthen your own.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 12:26 PMMy, aren’t some people here very precious about any criticism on this. This is a political lobby group, not Mother Theresa. If it cannot stand criticism and challenge and the odd bit of satire its already a dead parrot.
Oh yes and trying to draw a parallel between 42 day detention and internment is just trying to put a fresh wrapper on something the whole community has moved on from. If however you have to quote Che Gavarra to justify your political philosophy its not surprising you end up clutching at straws.
Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:49 PMYou got it cynic
It’s a profile raising stunt, straight out of the old socialist worker stable. Any bandwagon will do. Whatever happened to those airport workers on strike?
Guest appearance by Robert Lindsay anyone?Posted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:54 PMAnyone care to make out a wiki entry for eirigi, here’s the template:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_SmithPosted by on Aug 05, 2008 @ 01:57 PM
