Friday, January 20, 2006
IFA back Maze Stadium
Although the IFA has approved the plans for a new stadium to be built at the site of the Maze Prison, the backers of a rival bid to have one built in Belfast have argued that their bid is still live. There is some political resistence to the move in Belfast City Council.
Mick Fealty @ 10:21 AM
IJP, you say- “Sorry, there simply is nowhere in Belfast to put a stadium.”
Sorry, but you’re simply wrong. There are sites at Maysfield & North Foreshore (both owned by the city council who would hand over the land) and at Titanic Quarter / H&W;.
There are no compelling arguments for the Maze - which is why I am tempted to agree with earlier post by Brendan Belfast - it all comes back to the H-Block shrine.
The NIO increassingly makes me sick.
Posted by on Jan 21, 2006 @ 08:20 PMI suppose moving the dead to th Maze is totally out of the question?
Posted by on Jan 21, 2006 @ 09:07 PMIJP wrote
“Bearing this all in mind, consider that we have two options - leave it as is or support the vision for a stadium at Maze. The latter is not ideal, but it’s better than the former.”Why only two option? if there are emerging prooposals from Belfast why not stall the pro Maze juggernaut and give Maysfield and Ormeau time to develop full plans? what would be lost,a couple of months? Big deal, except....
it doesn;t meet Tony Blairs diary committmentes. He is sue here mid February and lick arse Hanson wants to deliver a stadium on a plate so Tony can give a great speech. Expect it to feature some, if not all of the following phrases:
“..a peace dividend”, “shared space”, “winners all round” and even, God forbid, “swords into ploughshares”
why only two options IJP? Whose timetable? whose agenda?
Posted by on Jan 21, 2006 @ 09:08 PMI suppose moving the dead to the Maze is totally out of the
questionPosted by on Jan 21, 2006 @ 09:10 PMBrendan
... which is why the IFA was entirely right to state ‘in principle’. If Maysfield and Ormeau are both turned down (as is likely), the Maze becomes the only option if we’re serious about a stadium for 2012.
Mind, I still don’t see how Maysfield or Ormeau are exactly an improvement. Neither is exactly ‘central’, except to the residents nearby who’ll face resultant mayhem…
Posted by on Jan 21, 2006 @ 11:27 PMIJP, read the proposals - the Ormeau one is online.
Shouldn’t politicians be briefed or brief themselves on their subject before spouting - as you have just done?
;-)
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 01:26 AMThe IFA have their hands tied, so they had no option but to agree in priciple...but the feeling is they would rather see any new stadium built in the city.
The worrying aspect to all this is the uncompromising attitude of the Government who are insisting that there is no plan b.
The Maze will prove to be controversial, no doubt Sinn Fein insisting that any developmemnt includes a shrine to their “fallen heroes” that died there during the hunger strikes.Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 11:34 AM“Stadiums ‘out in the sticks’ have hosted the last three World Cup Finals, so they’re not all bad!”
One also hosted last year’s European Cup final - spoken to anyone who was there have you?
Distance from Belfast is not the problem. The fact that the stadium will be out on its own in a field (NOT in Lisburn as people seem to be suggesting) is a major stumbling block.
There was talk of the Maze being near the main airport thus it has good transport links. WHAT?
Belfast has its own airport (and port) as well as having a motorway out for the first half of the journey to Aldergrove.
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 12:24 PMHey Beano, every scouser I speak to say they where at the European Cup Final last year.
A bit like the 50,000 Ulstermen at Windsor Park on September 7th.
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 03:20 PMIJP
The IFA said yes ‘in principle’ because that is all they were asked to say at this stage. with a bit of backbone they would have said - ‘no decision yet, more options appear to be coming forward.’
And what is the big deal about having it ready for 2012? a couple of olympic football tournament matches - do you even know what makes for Olympic football? Under 23 footballers. So we get USA v China Under 23 or somthing of that calibre. Pathetic.
IJP - whose agenda are we operating to on this issue? whose timetable?
Doctor Who - the Shinners have already sought - and got agreement to a H-Bloclk shrine. that is what the ICCT is all about. stadium for a shrine thats the deal that the DUP and SF have delivered.
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 04:04 PMDoctor Who
“The Maze will prove to be controversial, no doubt Sinn Fein insisting that any developmemnt includes a shrine to their “fallen heroes” that died there during the hunger strikes.”
I agree entirely and the fact is that rather than it becoming potentially a source of unity and common purpose here its history will drive a wedge amongst us.
There will be a least a clamour for some kind of sculpture to the Hunger Strikers which will be balanced by some kind of memorial to their murdered victims.
We will then have the Bobby Sand Stand or Avenue and so it will go on.Infact the notion of the a Stand at site of the H Blocks in Northern Ireland is so pea brained I didnt take the story seriously until I realised it was being driven cart and horses through us.
The reason is supposedly economic - ie there simply isnt the cash available to buy sufficient land for a stadium in Belfast. However to my knowledge they wont publish the cost benefit analysis of the Maze Site.
ie how much are they going to spend on the infrastructure around the Maze ? How much are they going to re-create in terms of bars, hotels and restaurants, which already exist in Belfast, and which will only be filled a few times a year ?
It will undoubetedly be Belfast’s Millenium Dome.The IFA should throw its lot in with Linfield and Glentoran FC and Ulster Rugby who should all sell their existing grounds at Windsor, Oval and Ravenhill for housing development and take the money to a shared ground on the other side of the city - Belfast Council has land at the Harbour and those 11000 + fans plus corporate sponsor ship could chip in also for life time tickets. The Govt could then throw in some of what it intends squandering at the Maze and give a few million to the GAA to develop Casement Park.
It just requires imaginative thinking by people who have NI/Ulster/Six County sport at heart as well as the prosperity and development of the capital city as opposed to some ludicrous agenda for the Maze.
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 07:54 PMDo you think there will be Hamburgers for sale at the Bobby Sands memorial stand.
Posted by on Jan 22, 2006 @ 10:26 PMIJP just to correct something - the new stadium will NOT host Olympic football in the finals. What it may receive is a couple of pre-olympics qualifying games.
The Amalgamation of NISCs have done some research and a 50,000 capacity is required for Olympic finals matches. As you can see from
section 9 of the report the UEFA cup finals is also a red herring.This is the sort of bulls**t propaganda we have to contend with, and unfortunately it doesn’t end there.
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 11:22 AMOh and the full position paper from the amalgamation is available for download here (when the site’s not down at least!) Section 9 begins on page 27.
If you want a copy and can’t download it due to site problems, feel free to contact me.
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 11:26 AMThe piper pays the tune Beano and while I agree the Northern Ireland fans are the ones to suffer most from this scheme they are the ones with the least options.
The GAA couldn’t be arsed and have lots of other options but aren’t going to say no and be seen as the ones “holding back progress”.
The IRFU will have Lansdowne and Ravenhill and won’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
The IFA are renting Linfield’s ground for Christ’s sake. This 125 years after coming into existence
If they don’t get government money, their only option is a reduced capacity Windsor.
But they are the same standard of muppet as the FAI blazers and will probably get a cash windfall into their pockets out of the Maze.
To think that any kind of campaign will make the IFA think in football’s interests is naive.
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 12:42 PMI have been a backer of a stadium in Belfast and am still prepared to be if the Government insists on building one for the three sports but I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the money should just be split three ways. Rugby and football at Croker is a lovely story and all that, but at the end of the day that is a temporary arrangement. In the long run, a gaelic pitch is too big to double up as a gootball pitch without having a detrimental impact on the atmosphere and rugby matches will not do the playing surface any favours. On top of that, as has been pointed out before, football and rugby will never fill a 42,000 capacity venue (unless the Old Firm play a (un)friendly there) and the only gaelic matches that might fill it will be played South of the border anyway. I have never been to a game at Casement Park but get the impression that a few quid for improvements would be welcome. The standard of facilities at Ravenhill (apart from the bar, which is welcome) is laughable, but there is enough room there for a new stand and a new covered terrace. Two sides of Windsor are Premiership standard, the other two are in urgent need of replacement - again, there is plenty of room for a larger, modern stand at the Railway End and a slightly bigger South stand.
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 04:14 PMAre n.i supporters against the stadium for political reasons ??
http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11418&st=0
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 07:24 PMBrendan
The stadium should be operational for 2012 - which means planning for it to be open by the end of the decade, given inevitable overruns (cf. Wembley).
I note that even the Ulster Unionist Leader now agrees with me (reported on UTV today) that there simply isn’t going to be anywhere in Belfast to build a stadium.
So let’s get on with it, eh?
Unless… Mark raises the legitimate counterview, which is accepting more or less the status quo. The problem there, Mark, is that 15 months from now Windsor’s capacity will be further drastically reduced - NI v. England in front of 8,000 anyone? Didn’t think so.
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 09:09 PMIJP - what is the rush towards a stadium by 2012? if there is an emerging option for Belfast, where a stadium could be built with the capacity for 28,000 / 30,000 or indeed 42,500, don’t you accept that should receive consideration?
so what if the stadium opens in 2013? whose timetable are we operating to here? whose agenda?
i would’nt take too much comfort in SRE agreeing with you IJP - usually a sign you are on the wrong track!
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 10:03 PMIJP, sure just ignore ANY points put to you and waffle on to your own agenda.
Politicians, eh ....
Posted by on Jan 23, 2006 @ 10:12 PMJames -
So despite having read the OWC site and all the reasoned arguments against the Maze site and the 42,500 capacity, you decide to completely ignore these and home in on ‘political’ reasons.
YOUR agenda is clear.
Posted by on Jan 24, 2006 @ 09:35 AM“Are n.i supporters against the stadium for political reasons ??”
James,
This one unashamedly is for sure...The proposed location of the Stadium is for political reasons, so I have no problem opposing it for same.
I do support the concept of a multi purpose sports stadium.
I do not support it being linked in any shape or form with a terrorist justification centre.
Outwith it’s location, there are othe major issues to be addressed, not least the size of the stadium.
IJP,
“15 months from now Windsor’s capacity will be further drastically reduced - NI v. England in front of 8,000 anyone? Didn’t think so.”
Lies.
Posted by on Jan 24, 2006 @ 09:43 AMThose who quoted political interference in the process are right but for the wrong reasons.
Firstly security sources wont allow stadiums at either Maysfield or Ormeau Park for the most obvious reasons for some (bizarre) reasons have yet to be touched.
1. Maysfield - Is situated directly between Short Strand and The Markets. The potential for public disorder with thousands of flag waving NI fans passing by and through these areas is enormous. Quite simply it’s a 100% non starter. It’s all very well talking about new dispensations etc… but the potential for violence would be very high.
2. Ormeau Park. Similar issues abound there. There will be many fans either going through or past The Markets, Holyland and Lower Ormeau areas. Like wise GAA fans visiting the proposed site would be very close to some surrounding Loyalist areas.
There is no way the Govt are going to CREATE another potential sectarian abyss in the city. You can forget infastructure, tourism issues and all the superficial arguments. There will be no shared stadium in the city because (despite all the hype) the clock stopped here a long long time ago.
Posted by on Jan 24, 2006 @ 01:43 PM“do not support it being linked in any shape or form with a terrorist justification centre.”
Sure you’ll still be able to sing ‘gstq’ and if you shout the ‘no surrender’ add on loud enough, they might be able to hear you.
Posted by on Jan 24, 2006 @ 06:12 PMJames,
“Sure you’ll still be able to sing ‘gstq’ and if you shout the ‘no surrender’ add on loud enough, they might be able to hear you.”
Whilst my preference would be for not singing GSTQ at all at Northern Ireland games, I would certainly never bastardise the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
We have been told to leave politics at the turnstiles...now the Government wants to place politics at the turnstiles.
Unacceptable.
Posted by on Jan 24, 2006 @ 06:29 PM
