Wednesday, June 20, 2007
“I didn`t actually see the programme..”
The Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, has commented on last night’s BBC Spotlight investigation into the murder of Capt Robert Nairac, which he declined to be interviewed for - the programme can now be viewed at the BBC site
The Sinn Fein MP told the Assembly`s Committee of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister: “In relation to last night`s Spotlight programme, I didn`t actually see the programme but I am told - and I do not know if this is accurate or not - two people on the programme who indicated they had some involvement in the killing of Captain Nairac. I don`t know who these people are. I do not know if they are bona fide people who were actually there. I do not know if they were Walter Mittys. I do not know whether or not there is any validity to the case that was actually made by them on the programme.”
Pete Baker @ 03:21 PM
“Have you read “The Billy Boy”? On reading it and it alone, one wonders what all the fuss was about and indeed why Billy was ever imprisoned”
No I think it makes a lot of mention of Billy Wright being involved in/co-ordinating moves to kill innocent Catholic kids and anyone else who was perceived as ‘other’.
I have had a cursory look over it and there is, I think, mention of some disturbing scenes involving an ice-cream van and catholic kids being murdered and indeed blame laid with him over the murder of a pregnant Catholic teen, who had a Protestant boyfriend.
Posted by on Jun 20, 2007 @ 11:59 PMNairac’s involvement/collusion with the UVF in specific operations that resulted in the murder of innocent Catholics was brought to light by Captain Fred Holyrod who worked with Nairac in the ‘70’s in the north of Ireland.
Fred Holyrod was the first to write a book exposing Nairac’s involvement in the murder of innocent Catholics, along with the British government’s bag of “dirty tricks” used to insite war fare between the IRA and loyalist paramilitary groups.
Holyrod even went as far as to admit that when the IRA would call in a warning with a secret code, when a bomb was going to go off, the warning was ignored and innocent people died in order for the British Disinformation Services to be able to further discredit the IRA and capitalize on the tragedy. He even gave evidence on information he had about the Dublin-Monoghan bombings. His book was banned in England and he was barred from appearing in any media outlets throughout the UK. He was labeled an “MI6 whistle-blower”.
Myself and another person involved in Irish human rights issues were responsible for bringing Holyrod to the United States to tell his story to the American media as well as before influential Congressmen and Senators in Washington D.C. He also appeared on C-Span. However, long before it was popular to “blow the whistle” by the now Johnny come lately’s. No one wanted to believe what Holyrod was telling them. It took over 10 years before more and more “operatives” came out of the wood work to tell the world what was really going on behind the scense in the north AND south of Ireland.
Nairac was a demented and evil person who used his power as a British officer in HM service to torture and murder innocent Catholics because he could! If he was, in fact, fed to the pigs - so be it!
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 12:02 AM“Holyrod even went as far as to admit that when the IRA would call in a warning with a secret code, when a bomb was going to go off, the warning was ignored and innocent people died in order for the British Disinformation Services to be able to further discredit the IRA and capitalize on the tragedy.”
Your argument has a certain fallacy about it, I mean placing your bets in the basket of hope that, a state that has been levelled with a charge of non-compliance to orders by a group which spent its time trying to annihilate it through fatal injurious actions is fanciful.
It may be true and creditable but phoning the services to say we left a bomb but it’s okay the state will ensure that the bomb doesn’t do much harm is playing into the hands of terror-propagnandist blame games.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 12:10 AMI totally agree with that logic. I’m only repeating what Fred Holyrod revealed in his book and in numerous interviews throughout the U.S. The propaganda war was played out on both sides but I can’t help feel that those in a position of power and law enforcement was more to blame for allowing the tragedy to happen if they had it in their power to stop it.
It’s like a cop who feels he is above the law and does something criminal and expects the turnout to be okay because he was trying to catch a criminal. You knew what you were dealing with when it came to the various paramilitary organizations involved in the “Troubles” and you expected no less, but you expected more from those who were there to protect the innocent i.e., RUC, British Army, British Government!Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 12:29 AM“It may be true and creditable but phoning the services to say we left a bomb but it’s okay the state will ensure that the bomb doesn’t do much harm is playing into the hands of terror-propagnandist blame games.”
It would still be classed as an unlawful killing under UK law, i.e. the killing of another by “act or omission.” You can either kill by acting or by failing to act. While the legal cause of death would be the bomb. Those who had knowledge of the bomb and failed to act on that knowledge (with clear malice of forethought) would be guily by omission.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 01:15 AMAbsolute BALDERDASH Mr McGuinness.
No1 rule in the IRA Green Handbook ‘DENY EVERYTHING’
A TRUTH RECOVERY PROCESS IS A LONG WAY OF
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 05:54 AMPity you didn’t give the whole quote Pete.
McGuinness goes on:“Obviously the most vexed aspect in all of this in relation to Captain Nairac and other missing people is the need to ensure that the bodies are returned to the families.
“Whether it is Captain Nairac or anybody else, if people have information, then they should bring that information forward. We would be very vociferous in terms of advocating to people that there is a duty and a responsibility - particularly in the context of the enormous political breakthroughs that there have been during the course of recent times.
“If there are people out there hurting - and clearly there are families out there hurting as a result of not having bodies returned to them - then all of us in the political process, that means us and everybody else who may not be involved in the political process and may even be detached from it but who have information about these matters, should bring that information forward as a matter of urgency.”
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 07:04 AMDC
Your cursory look was too cursory. Billy wasn’t involved in the mobile shop murders (Mark Fulton?) or the murder of the young Catholic girl shot in her bed. The latter heinous act was committed by Trevor McKeown, brother of Clifford.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2868117.stm
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 08:55 AMI wonder
I haven’t read the book in question and scumbag Wright may not have been directly involved in the incidents DC mentioned.
Frankly, I’m not sure what point you are making. Are you simply pointing out inaccuracies on DCs post? or are you trying to claim that Wright wasn’t directly involved as a UVF/LVF member in the organised murder of many Catholics?
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:16 AMI’m making the point that BW didnt take part directly in the incidents DC mentions, yeah.
I also am making the broader point, in relation to Nairac, that I believe that well-known figures were not necessarily involved in any given notorious atrocity that happened during their “active” life. There were many lesser-known people.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:23 AMNo matter how many threads Slugger manages to put up and take down about the missing bodies of the Troubles’ victims, defenders of British covert operators and their loyalist cohorts always manage to divert the discussion along lines which they feel more comfortable about - e. g., the Provisionals’ complete responsibility for the remaining mess, especially Martin McGuinness’s, Captain Robert Nairac was a naive fellow who is the scapegoat for all kinds of killings despite what even his colleagues have claimed - like Billy ‘King Rat’ Wright - etc., ad nauseam.
The plain fact is that Nairac was the loosest cannon that the Brits ever directed towards Ireland, resulting in gross violations of Irish sovereignty, bombings, kidnappings, ambushes, exeuctions, the murder of innocents like Seamus Ludlow, etc. - what was so notorious that when he did a free lance operation across the border in 1977, and a group of republican supporters recognized him, they were so enraged that that killed him, and cut up his body into such small pieces that it would never be found, so that they could escape punishment.
It, like the murder of Robert McCartney, had nothing to do with the IRA leadership - as MM’s statement clearly establishes - but was the result of provocation that its enemies aroused among its supporters.
In sum, Nairac’s body will never be found, so the Unionists and security force disinformers should just stop talking about it, and move on.
Anyway, the scumbag was never worth a tear by anyone but his family - like Gerard Steenson’s.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:26 AM“a group of republican supporters recognized him, they were so enraged that that killed him”
I’m not clear from the other night’s documentary that they knew who the man was, apart from the believing him to be a soldier or spy.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:32 AMJust more of your characteristic quibbling, I Wonder.
Most probably, they didn’t know that he was, in fact, Robert Nairac, but they recognized him as one of the groups who had arranged the bombings in Monaghan and Dublin, the kidnapping and execution of IRA Captain Peter Cleary, etc.
Almost everyone who lived along the Irish border knew what these covert operations had done, and many were of a mind to settle scores with their operators if they ever came across one.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:42 AM“Your cursory look was too cursory. Billy wasn’t involved in the mobile shop murders (Mark Fulton?) or the murder of the young Catholic girl shot in her bed. The latter heinous act was committed by Trevor McKeown, brother of Clifford”
The Beeb report states:
‘The court heard the killing had been a “birthday present” for the then Loyalist Volunteer Force leader Billy Wright, who was later murdered by the INLA in the Maze Prison.’
...At that trial in June 1999, Trevor McKeown was found guilty of possessing the .22 Spanish Star pistol used to murder Ms Martin.
It was the same gun used to murder Michael McGoldrick.’
It’s clear that the McKeowns were infatuated with Wright and his LVF blood-letting, so you may have highlighted the monkeys but there was only one organ grinder who since being silenced, coupled with Fulton’s ‘suicide’ has helped to create a quieter and more peaceful setting across Co.Armagh.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:44 AMDC
It certainly is quieter and the air purer. :)Lesser known killings by Wright could include the murder of Mr Boyle (1990) 2 young boys shot in a taxi depot in Armagh (1994) and the 3 men killed near the Hyster factory (1994)
I’m not sure if there is a definitive list of his victims, but directly and indirectly I think we are talking well into double figures.
Taken along with the toll exacted by Robin Jackson (also thankfully not longer around), scores of innocent people died because of 2 men.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 09:51 AM“It would still be classed as an unlawful killing under UK law, i.e. the killing of another by “act or omission.” You can either kill by acting or by failing to act. While the legal cause of death would be the bomb. Those who had knowledge of the bomb and failed to act on that knowledge (with clear malice of forethought) would be guily by omission.”
Good point and I agree fully.
The issue concerns insight to the claims made in McClafferty’s post. How much time, how much notice, enough notice to clear the street or enought to notice not to fatally wound and raise the profile of such groups with a little street-cred and political respect.
I think it’s a bit rich driving around in a car with plastic explosives, parking it up *walking away* then phoning the services to call in the bastardly state to deal with it.
If anything it is indicative of flawed philosophy of ethnic nationalism, self centred twisted desires - and that cuts both ways.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 10:15 AM“Lesser known killings by Wright could include...”
http://republican-news.org/archive/2002/April25/25rose.html
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 12:54 PMA renegade Bond-wannabe British officer shot by a drunk volunteer. The British gave the man honours, the IRA disposed of the body, both to cover up the ineptitude displayed on both sides.
You know things have settled down when the province once envied (perversely, of course) by journalists for its wealth of “sexy” stories is having to trawl through the history books to make it through the silly season.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 01:03 PMDC wrote:
“An enigmatic character”
As enigmatic as perhaps as Maxwell Knight, who had a love for exotic animals, birds and indeed same sex relationships, a truly puzzling MI5 character; the underworld is not just a place for enigmatic people but also for subtle eccentrics who seem to provide the State with the brains in order to manipulate to out-do the terror boys at their own game.
When it comes to spooks and subterfuge the papers love to print any stories which seem only too keen to, unusually, mix a lot of fact with fiction, as it is, on occasions, more fascinating than well thought out make-believe red-top nonsense.
Posted by DC on Jun 21, 2007 @ 12:23 AM
The State went to some lengths to keep “M” enigmatic. His widow Suzi was incarcerated in a Sue Ryder Home and denied access to “M“‘s biographer. Denied freedom of movement and freedom of association.
It is of course pure coincidence that the founders of the Sue Ryder charity were MI6 officers ... Airey Neave, Harry Sporborg and Sue Ryder.
Posted by on Jun 21, 2007 @ 08:54 PM
