Wednesday, May 14, 2008
Has IFA made a hash of its re-organisation?
This looks like a proverbial can of worms. The Irish News reports that a complex points system “scored on various criteria, including facilities, underage structures, financial planning, coaching aptitude and success on the field” has seen Donegal Celtic excluded from a reduced IFA Premier League next year, despite them effectively finishing five places ahead of Bangor, who gained promotion from the Intermediate league. Understandably, the manager is livid:
“We’d 610 points last year and we’ve 543 points this year, so somebody has got their sums wrong,” slammed Bonner. “Every obstacle that has been put in front of us we’ve jumped it. Now, I’ll have to stand in front of 380 members and tell them we got to the semi-finals of the Irish Cup and that we finished in 11th place, but we’re no longer in senior football because there is a team [Bangor] in ahead of us who have not competed at senior level for 12 years.” [Emphasis added]
Hmmm… It looks like the IFA may have some explaining to do… Bonner adds to the intrigue when he reveals there is a dispute between the IFA and the Sports Council over £800,000 supposedly ear marked for ground improvements at Celtic.
Adds: It should be noted that fifth-placed Portadown also lose the place in the top flight for not filling in their forms in time. Bureaucracy gone mad!!
Mick Fealty @ 02:50 PM
DC should have joined the league of Ireland in the first instance. I think themselves and Newry City should join Derry in the southern league. The IFA are nothing but a bunch of sectarian bigots! They haven’t done themselves any favours in this instance . Now we see why the nationalist 45-50% of the north support the Republic of Ireland and why players like Darron Gibson decided to play for the Republic. Yis can take ur “wee” team and stick it!!
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:12 PMBriso, I’m only guessing. I’m sure Mick will confirm or correct that for himself in due course.
Quagmire, keep dreaming those sectarian dreams.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:14 PMSMcGiff
I’d love to see the LoI have the vision to offer Portadown a place. It’d be a fascinating debate if they did!
Beano
“Awk p**s off Billy. That exact MOPE was predicted weeks ago....etc”
Classy as always Beano.
“It’s right up there with the accusation that people abbreviate the club’s name because they can’t bare uttering the dreaded C word.”
Actually, I hadn’t thought of that, but there might be something in it. It does seem strange that people wouldn’t simply refer to them as “Celtic”, doesn’t it?
“I suppose Portadown were shown no leniency because “local soccer’s powers-that-be” just don’t want the likes of Portadown about the place either?”
It’s probably just that if Portadown are in, someone else is out. And “someone else” would have their lawyers on the case pretty quickly.
“DC would need the IFA’s permission to play in a foreign league.”
Not if they resigned from the IFA they wouldn’t.
“I doubt the IFA would want to undermine their new league by setting up the LoI as a viable alternative.”
It wouldn’t be any of the IFA’s business if DC resigned from the IFA - and given how they’ve been treated, who would blame them if they did so?
But sure Beano, you just keep howling at the moon, and when in doubt, call a fenian a MOPE.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:15 PMLets have some sympathy for Larne.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:25 PMThanks Billy, you’ve just proved my point about people who want to see bigotry and/or sectarianism where there is none.
The first place I heard the club referred to as DC was by locals in the Suffolk Road area, all (Glasgow) Celtic fans. So don’t even TRY that bullshit.
And classy as always? Your original MOPE was paranoid and delusional and didn’t deserve anything more. What’s the point in providing a rational response to someone who’s made up their mind to believe the worst regardless of the facts?
DC’s “resigning” from the IFA means nothing. As the governing body of football in NI DC would need permission from the IFA and FIFA, as Derry City did.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:28 PMSlug
That should be the club’s motto! (Or indeed the town’s.....)
Incidentally, check out Larne FC’s Wikipedia entry, before someone changes it. (Last line.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larne_F.C.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:31 PMDonegal Celtic failed to make the grade, based on a transparent points scoring system, that they themselves accepted when announced.
If they have found a discrepancy in how their score card was marked (by independent checkers), then they should lodge a speedy appeal to the IFA.
If their “ace” is “We’re a West Belfast nationalist/republican/catholic/ Club, and therefore we have a God given right not to be treated in exactly the same way as other clubs were in this process”, I would suggest they’re a beaten docket.
When Donegal Celtic had to step up to the plate and deliver the promises, they fell short - unfortunately.
Good luck to them should they decide to join the lower reaches (3rd division?) of the Eirecom League set up.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:33 PMBeano
“Thanks Billy, you’ve just proved my point about people who want to see bigotry and/or sectarianism where there is none.”
You would have more credibility if you could point me to a single example of your ever having admitted to the existence of sectarianism within local soccer. I agree there are those who want to see sectarianism and bigotry where there is none - but there are also those who don’t want to see sectarianism and bigotry, even when it’s staring them in the face. (Or the mirror.) Frankly, yours is one of the first names that comes to mind.
“The first place I heard the club referred to as DC was by locals in the Suffolk Road area, all (Glasgow) Celtic fans.”
Fair enough. As I said, it had never occurred to me before that the “DC” abbreviation was based on some refusal to utter the word “Celtic”. It does seem like jumping at shadows.
“So don’t even TRY that bullshit.”
Classy. As always.
“Your original MOPE was paranoid and delusional and didn’t deserve anything more.”
Is it just me, or has the term MOPE evolved over the last few years into a form of sectarian abuse? Certainly Beano, you use it in a viscerally sectarian fashion.
“What’s the point in providing a rational response to someone who’s made up their mind to believe the worst regardless of the facts?”
Again, you’d have more credibility if you could point me to a single example of your ever having composed a “rational response” on this site? Usually your approach to discussion is the same as I imagine it is when you’re on the terraces.
“DC’s “resigning” from the IFA means nothing. As the governing body of football in NI DC would need permission from the IFA and FIFA, as Derry City did.”
Can you point me to the FIFA or UEFA directive supporting this? I’m not saying you’re wrong - I don’t know either way - but you make the point with a tone of total certainty, so I imagine you can cite the rule in question?
Or maybe you’re just bluffing?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:44 PMThose who are playing the MOPE card: I’d hazard a guess and say you havent been to a DC match between the lot of you.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:53 PM1. Perhaps Mick interpreted the “DC” reference as meaning Derry City when the poster was actually referring to Donegal Celtic?
2. I tend to doubt that this was a sectarian decision.
3. In response to Beano, there are plenty of precedents throughout Europe of teams playing in “other” leagues. Combine this with European law regarding free movement of people goods + services and I doubt very much “DC” would need permission from the soccer authorities in Belfast. The Belfast / Good Friday Agreement could also provide an interesting legal basis to assert eligibility to participate in the southern league as shown by the recent disputes over international player eligibility. After all the FAI are Irish, DC are Irish and the FAI are indeed already a viable alternative, the fact that you have two leagues on the island makes them so.
Oh crap, out of time...Got to run.Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 04:56 PMOh dear not this again. The GFA has nothing to do with the player issue, not directly anyway. The decision FIFA have taken (or not taken) is based on the fact that a player can have an Irish passport. The GFA has no direct influence over football.
Billy, I’m sure I can find some. I’ll have a search at EverythingUlster, I’m sure I’m on record there admitting that I will also point out that I have accused unionists of MOPEry the odd time as well. It’s just hard to remain calm when it’s as blatant as some posts on this thread, including your first. As for a rational response, I thought my first post was relatively rational - obviously I posted that before I saw the bile that was to spew forth in some of the other comments.
I still wish DC a speedy return. Luckily I’m in agreement with iluvni in suspecting that none of the bigoted shite spouted on here has come from a DC supporter.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:05 PMI would like to join Beano and other actual football supporters in wishing DC a speedy return. I am sure it is very disappointing for them, for Larne, for Portadown, and for Armagh.
DC do have potential to add a lot of supporters to the local league and they have come a long way in their relatively short history. It was great to see them in the league this year and I am sorry to lose them.
If it was up to me I would prefer DC to Bangor. Perhaps the grounds aspect of the criteria is over-rated?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:13 PMDec I quoted the relevant sentences directly from the introduction. I didn’t “sanitise” anything,
You posted that single paragraph in response to the question: What is the Derry City narrative. Maybe in future you should just paste the entire link. Then you’ll not miss titbits like how Derry City re-applied to join the Irish league 13 years running, and how the Irish league rejected them 13 years running.
Aside from that, you’re dismissal of any opposing view as sectarian, MOPERY, bitterness etc is as amusing as ever.
On a more general note, i doubt even the IFA are as dumb as to cook the results intentionally to exclude DC however questions remain as to how they appear to have dropped so many eligibility points in one season. Also, no-one should be too surprised that the regular OWC brigade("sectarian? Us?") are so keen to pronounce the death knell on a club after exactly two seasons of senior football.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:15 PMInterestingly, should Donegal Celtic (stupidly) decide to take this matter to the courts (which I don’t believe they will), they will not be playing at any level within the Northern Irish framework.
Their Domestic Licence would be revoked.
Their Club Officials should be fully aware of this.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:16 PMLuckily I’m in agreement with iluvni in suspecting that none of the bigoted shite spouted on here has come from a DC supporter.
Me, I’m a Reds man. I’m still entitled to have an opinion on other clubs. So what’s your point?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:18 PMBilly can you explain to briso what you meant when you said: “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.” I may have misinterpreted you. If I did, you have my apologies.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:24 PM“I still wish DC a speedy return. Luckily I’m in agreement with iluvni in suspecting that none of the bigoted shite spouted on here has come from a DC supporter”
In stark contrast, the reaction of the small band of dedicated Donegal Celtic supporters who really care about their Club - whilst understandibly upset and disappointed - has been largely dignified.
They certainly have not stooped to the gutter level (base sectarianism?) of those on here who couldn’t give a flying one about Donegal Celtic FC, or the Irish League in general.
I feel genuinely sorry for the true, and dedicated, fans of Donegal Celtic FC.
I know individuals involved in their (excellent) Youth Team set up - a true credit to their Club.
With dedication and determination, it’ll maybe not be too long before they have regained their place at the top table of Northern Irish football.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:28 PMSlug
“If it was up to me I would prefer DC to Bangor. Perhaps the grounds aspect of the criteria is over-rated?”
Given that £8m in grants for investment in Irish League grounds - including £800,000 for DC - is in place, but IS BEING HELD UP BECAUSE OF THE IFA, it seems extraordinary that grounds are being given such prominence. Grounds can be fixed up, and in the case of DC, the money is actually already there. A new stand can be built a lot more quickly than the IFA’s relationship with west Belfast is likely to be rebuilt after this.
Right or wrong, we all know how this will go down among northern nationalists. It probably isn’t the case that DC’s exclusion is down to sectarianism, but the problem here is more fundamental - it’s that the IFA has zero credibility among about 45% of its potential market. Events like this simply confirm age-old assumptions among northern nationalists about the local soccer scene.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:28 PMbeano,
everything about your posts screams “uber-prod”..
must be annoying having all those pesky “cat-lics” about the place?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:30 PM“In response to Beano, there are plenty of precedents throughout Europe of teams playing in “other” leagues. Combine this with European law regarding free movement of people goods + services and I doubt very much “DC” would need permission from the soccer authorities in Belfast.”
Who are the other precedents? Vaduz from Liechenstein playing in the Swiss leagues (there isn’t a league for their country anyway.) Wrexham etc who historically played in England long before the set up of a Welsh national league? Maybe the odd club from San Marino? I can’t think of any others.
You may want to check this BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/1464585.stm when the subject of the Old Firm playing in England was raised:
“Uefa would only make such a ruling should the Old Firm be granted permission to move by the Scottish Football Association and the Scottish Premier League and then received the approval of their counterparts in England.”
Or from around the same time: >>UEFA are unhappy with the notion and a spokesman said: “It would never be allowed. Clubs are just not allowed to play in different competitions in different countries. It’s not a matter of picking this and choosing that."<< http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2001/09/14/sfnuef15.xml
More recently there was Sepp Blatter’s comments at http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/162180 ‘It is also good for the political aspects of sport that the four British Associations keep their different leagues.’
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:38 PMMick
“Billy can you explain to briso what you meant when you said: “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.””
Here’s Northern Ireland in a nutshell. Unionists set the rules so they get everything their own way. Occasionally nationalists succeed anyway, so unionists move the goalposts, to ensure this cannot be. Nationalists retreat in a huff, while unionists rationalise what they have done, and convince themselves (though no-one else), that actually sectarianism has nothing to do with it.
It’s a narrative that repeats itself over and over, from the abandonment of PR voting in the 1920s to the Flags and Emblems Act of the 1950s to the building of the motorways and the second university in the 1960s to defection of Derry City in the 1980s.
Right or wrong, this move (which might yet come to be seen as the death sentence of Donegal Celtic) will be seen as fitting in with that narrative.
In short: no matter what they do, no matter how successfully they negotiate the obstacles placed in their way, unionists will never get nationalists an even break.
Right or wrong, that’s the perception. Always has been, and it seems nothing has changed. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:40 PMShould have read:
“no matter what they do, no matter how successfully they negotiate the obstacles placed in their way, nationalists will never be given an even break by unionists.”
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:42 PMBilly
Your post reminds me of the old saying: “to the kid with a hammer, all the world seems like a nail”
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:44 PMRealist
If DC’s domestic license were to be revoked, how would that affect a potential DC link-up with the LoI?
Could the IFA revoke DC’s license (thereby preventing them from competing) but at the same time, also prevent them from seeking competition elsewhere?
Or would such a license revocation free DC from any obligation to the IFA?
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:45 PMSlug
“Your post reminds me of the old saying: “to the kid with a hammer, all the world seems like a nail.”
Which one? Admittedly there’ve been lots today, and I have indeed been like a kid with a hammer. It’s so sad that I spend my day-off hanging around Slugger.....
Posted by on May 14, 2008 @ 05:47 PM
