Monday, June 02, 2008
Hartley elected Lord Mayor of Belfast
Tom Hartley of Sinn Fein has been elected the new Lord Mayor of Belfast, replacing Jim Rodgers. The new deputy mayor David Browne of the UUP abstained rather than vote for the DUP’s Diane Dodds citing “personality reasons.” He also pointed out that since Hartley received two more votes than Diane Dodds, his voting for her would not have made any difference. Mrs. Dodds has accused him of “opportunism.”
Unionist unity seems unlikely and even cooperation some way off.
Incidentally did Alliance vote for Hartley?
Turgon @ 07:06 PM
So the provos weren’t still killing people, robbing banks, smuggling et al after 2002?
The UVF don’t have the two biggest drug dealers in Ireland on their pay roll? Take the orange tinted sunglasses off, sunbeam.
Posted by on Jun 02, 2008 @ 11:01 PMGerry, I asked you a question, it is only polite to at least try to answer it.
So I’ll ask again, were PIRA an active paramilitary organisation in 2002 when Alliance still voted for one of them as mayor?
Simple yes/no will do nicely.
:)
Posted by on Jun 02, 2008 @ 11:12 PMCome on now, we’ve had an IRA leader as Deputy First Minister for over a year now—without the sky falling on our heads, I may add—and some of you can’t get over a second SF mayor? A role that is largely ceremonial and almost entirely divorced from anything related to the question of nationality?
If Alliance are carefully coordinating turns on the the merry-go-round, in their ill-conceived and naive notion of political fairness, perhaps they should consider how many old, white men they’ve helped hang the chain on each year.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 03:10 AMIt makes me laugh/despair all these posters defending uniunist and SF politicos when these assholes have constantly proven themselves to be assholes, who have both been in bed with thugs and murderers when it suited them and who try to fool a gullable electorate that they are decent guys who realy realy care about them.Get wise, they are all scoundrels, no more, no less. they will be laughing thier heads off at you whilst they sip champers in a 5 star hotel in Chicago
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 05:49 AMDick,
The IRA were observing a ceasefire recognized by the government and (subsequently) their political progress was underscored by the IMC.
This is in marked contrast to supporting people who do not have a recognized ceasefire and whose ongoing commitment to paramilitarism is reflected by the IMC. That is what I meant when I said “active”.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 06:53 AMAnyone know where it shows who/which party voted for each candidate.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:08 AMI liked the comment made above by Dianne Dodds makes a great Dianne Dodds lol
Politics isn’t really working if you have families domineering the theatre of Stormont: as an MLA and councillor would she be obliged to stand down as workload if she became Lord Mayor ...
Thank God there will be a law soon to morally tell these people that this is what the people want.Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:24 AMDon’t know Sammy but Sf, Sdlp and Alliance would make the numbers about right.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:36 AMDewi,
ta.
ps All Blacks on Sat - remember you heard it here first - we’ll ‘ave ‘em.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:51 AMDon’t know why Diane is getting on her high horse so much - the DUP and SF are so joined at the hip nowadays that we won’t notice any difference between a DUP mayor and a SF one.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:53 AMThe following had been agreed between the DUP and the Ulster Unionists.
1. Complete UUP support for Lord Mayor position.
2. Complete DUP support for Deputy Lord Mayor
3. That would have produced 25 votes
4. Rodger’s would have had the casting vote and then Diane would have had the casting vote for DLM
5. Diane Dodds would have been elected as Lord Mayor and the UUP would have taken DLM
What put the kibosh on the deal was the failure of the leader of the Ulster Unionist party to be in attendance at the meeting and the “no-vote” of David Browne which was handsomely rewarded with 14 Sinn Fein votes for Deputy.
The DUP kept their side of the deal as agreed.
The UUP can’t be trusted as far as you can throw them - but then we all knew that anyway.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 08:09 AMZoonPol
Diane Dodds is only a Councillor. She lost her West Belfast Assembly seat at the last election.
Delta Omega
“the DUP and SF are so joined at the hip nowadays that we won’t notice any difference between a DUP mayor and a SF one.”
Have you been on a different planet recently? Or else a case of extreme short term memory loss because I jsut answered you on a different blog on the issues over the last couple of days. Try not to be soooo bitter and resentful. It gives you wrinkles ;)
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 08:15 AMMr Stalin.
The IRA were observing a ceasefire recognized by the government and (subsequently) their political progress was underscored by the IMC.
Ceasefire my ass.
Were PIRA still an active paramilitary organisation in 2002? I’m asking your opinion, not Blairs or Gerrys.
Were SF/PIRA still murdering after 2002, smuggling, robbing banks, carrying out punishment beatings etc etc. ?
Simple yes/no answer will do nicely. :)
Im still waiting on Sammys (Gerrys) reply.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 08:29 AMDick Swett, stop being a ‘Dick’
You may be hurting today but it’s tough, Sinn Fein have as much right as any other party to avail of the Mayoral position, after all they are currently the 2nd largest party on the council.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 08:44 AMFunny how when I recently referred to some Unionist politicians trying to turn the clock back 40 years I was accused of resorting to stereotyping…ho hum.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 09:19 AMPaul,
Erm hurting? Me? Hmm
If you actually read the sh*te that some APNI posters have said above?
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 09:27 AMSome significances that seem to be missed:
My reading last year was that Tom Hartley was out of favour with Sf during an internal witchhunt;did he not announce subsequently his intention not to contest the next Council elections?. So being chosen by SF as their rep for Mayor signals a golden handshake/kiss and make up.
Dianne Dodd: Lost out as MLA at last election - a Mayoral role this year would up her profile and enhance her chances next time. Makes timely the call by DUP party bleaders at the weekend for greater cooperation with UU “to benefit the unionist people”.Tom Hartley is quizzed re “would he meet Royalty” but correct me if I mis-remember but when Lord mayor did Sammy Wilson not (rudely) refuse to meet the Dali Lama and Bill Clinton on behalf of the people of NI?
Also,Dewi: on what basis do you claim that Hartley is “hardly a combatant”? He is a member of SF, has been in jail and if at last he has seen the light we should be grateful?But let’s us give him a fair wind - to see someone from a working class background do a good job as Lord Mayor makes visible the changes that are taking place in NI.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 09:42 AMSammy Morse
I actually agree with all of your points about the UUP and PUP mayors,and the nonsense of being in Government with Shinners while objecting to them holding a symbolic post- but there’s one thing I think needs clarified, if you’d be so kind.Did Alliance support Qughie Smyth for lord mayor or McCoubrey for deppity? If they didn’t- as I seem to recall-why not? Surely if Maskey /Hartley are fit for office then so were the two loyalists?Or was it the size of the SF mandate that got them over the finishing line of respectability?
If they did then I stand corrected.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:14 AMJeez, you guys like a row.
It’s only the Mayor of Belfast. What power does that position hold? Not much, if any.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:22 AMAnbody know how many years it will be before there will be an outright Nationalist majority on the City Council?
Are there boundary changes in the pipeline?
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:28 AMThe fact that SF lost a seat to Alliance after the McCartney incident seems to indicate that Alliance represents people who are not entirely happy with SF’s handling of this event. But being unhappy with the role of SF does not therefore make you an enthusiastic supporter of the UVF. Consequently power sharing and rotation are the order of the day. Unionists who think they can drag Alliance into a pan-Unionist front are mistaken.
Nationalists are I think well aware that Alliance will not want to be part of a pan-Nationalist front to exclude Unionists. They don’t bother to try it on.
Were PIRA still an active paramilitary organisation in 2002? I’m asking your opinion, not Blairs or Gerrys. Were SF/PIRA still murdering after 2002, smuggling, robbing banks, carrying out punishment beatings etc etc. ?
Simple yes/no answer will do nicely.
Take legal advice on this. Never answer a leading question, of which this is a blatant example. Never answer a complex question with a yes/no answer. Do not sign a contract with an etc in it. Do not give hearsay evidence, particularly about what other people were doing. Immediately object to shackling together of different persons/entities in a communal guilt, as in:-
Was the UUP/DUP/UVF coalition still murdering people etc?
Mrs McGuire spent half her life in jail because she allowed herself to be bullied into answering yes or no when the true answer was “I don’t know.”
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:32 AMMr Hartley, 62, said he would follow the example of former Sinn Féin Lord Mayor Alex Maskey who had laid a Remembrance Day wreath at the Cenotaph.
“I will be trying to reflect the diverse political cultures here in Belfast… I will want to meet the different communities that exist in Belfast,” he told BBC News on Tuesday.
“We will have to have a discussion about meeting royalty, but where I cannot represent the citizens of Belfast, they will be represented by David Browne.
Mr Browne said: “I will be happy to take up any duties that Tom feels he is unable to attend.”
Mr Hartley is only the second Sinn Fein councillor to become Belfast mayor, following Alex Maskey’s term in 2002.
Well there you have it Mr Browne gets to kow tow to the royals and Mr Hartly gets to kow tow to the rest .Why all the fuss ?
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:35 AMDarth
I don’t believe they did, on the basis that the IRA were on a recognised ceasefire (and at that point had been pretty well-behaved), while the UVF (in Hughie’s case) was still involved in political murders, as I’m sure the UDA were at the point McCoubrey was elected.
At the time of Maskey’s election it was pretty touch and go for Alliance whether he’d be elected, but the decision was based around things like the SF mandate and the fact that the IRA campaign was largely over and Maskey’s election would help encourage them down the political road.
Oviously it caused a fair bit of pain for the party, particularly for its ‘moderate unionist’ wing. Admittedly, there were the McCartney and Quinn murders and Northern Bank robbery later, but the slaughter that continued within loyalism was much greater.
McCoubrey’s election nomination papers were being signed by someone who would go on to try and kill police; Maskey was on his way to sitting on the Policing Board.
I realise people like yourself may disagree, but - based on the situation at the time and where progress was made since - in hindsight, I’m happy Alliance made the right decision.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:40 AMpaddy reilly,
‘Mrs McGuire spent half her life in jail because she allowed herself to be bullied into answering yes or no when the true answer was “I don’t know.”
The Spanish Inquisition used the fact that people did not eat pork or disliked it as evidence that they were in fact closet ‘jews’ /judaizers’ . So the answer to the question ’ Do you like pork ’ better not be ‘I don’t know’ for that answer would have clearly marked one out as a heretic /jew etc .
When the wolf wants to eat the lamb it doesn’t much matter what the lamb answers.
Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:44 AMAnybody know how many years it will be before there will be an outright Nationalist majority on the City Council? Are there boundary changes in the pipeline?
Well obviously nobody knows: but there will always be some idiot ready to offer an opinion. In 2005 the Nationalist block got 47,589 votes or 47.7% and the Unionist block 43,198 or 43.3%, with Alliance on 6.8% or 6,808. It wouldn’t take much of a shift to give the Nationalist block an outright majority, given the rapidity with which youthful Nationalists are displacing elderly Unionists in this city. All it would take, imho, would be an election. But don’t worry, the DUP are moving heaven and earth to ensure these are delayed for as long as possible, so there is no immediate chance of:
And there, God love it, before me
The grand City Hall stood in state
With a tricolour flying above it
And two Civic Guards at the gate.Posted by on Jun 03, 2008 @ 10:45 AM
