Tuesday, July 17, 2007
‘Good’ UDA “will stand with their members if they are under threat”..
It may have been the prospect of the next IMC report containing a separate chapter entitled “South East Antrim UDA”.. or a misguided attempt to convince the actual political representatives that they are dealing with criminality.. if not decommissioning.. or just the latest outworkings of an internal power struggle.. but there have been more omnious rumblings from that ‘good’ UDA - who look at Jackie McDonald for its de facto leadership. Whatever the reasoning, via Brain Rowan in the Belfast Telegraph comes news that the ‘mainstream’ UDA have “[appointed] an interim leadership, including a brigadier and brigade staff [in South East Antrim].” And there’s another [not so] veiled threat..
The “interim leadership” is a kind of rallying call, and a move by the inner council to bring as many members in south east Antrim back into the mainstream organisation. A source close to the organisation’s leadership said the wish was to achieve this without violence, but warned the inner council “will stand with their members if they are under threat”.
According to the report
A statement from the mainstream UDA leadership read:
“After months of consultation with members of south east Antrim, a decision has been made to appoint an interim leadership, including a brigadier and brigade staff.
“As a result of this decision the south east Antrim brigade have asked the council to expel the commander in charge of Carrickfergus and Larne from the organisation.
“The UDA, in support of the interim brigade staff, call on all south east Antrim members to support this new brigade as we continue the fight to stop our communities being destroyed by crime, criminality and drug dealers.”
Hmm.. Perhaps the police could just talk to “those who have influence..”
Pete Baker @ 02:41 PM
Yay! We’re getting a new improved UDA brigade!
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:17 PMlol Glensman, I don’t think they’ve any idea just how embarrasing they are. The IRA must be rolling in isles with laughter.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:25 PMAh, the dulcet rumblngs of the hoods, the sweet music of percussive chest thumping, the overture before the purge…
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:30 PMDoes anyone take these clowns seriously anymore?!
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:32 PMDev: “Does anyone take these clowns seriously anymore?! “
So long as the mug(gers) are armed, they have to at least get a modicum of respect… which is likely the main reason they’re so keen on delaying disarmament—how else can they run their extortion rackets without their arms?
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:47 PMhow pathetic
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 03:48 PMGiven that the PSNI know who each of the loyalist murderers, pimps, and drug-peddlers are, perhaps a selective form of ‘internment’ (with safeguards) would be the most expedient way of getting them off the streets. Why waste time with this scum?
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 06:00 PMYou’d laugh at these stupid wankers playing toy soldiers if it all weren’t true. It’s time the Assets Recovery Agency lit a fire under their arses.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 06:27 PMThe Dubliner: “Given that the PSNI know who each of the loyalist murderers, pimps, and drug-peddlers are, perhaps a selective form of ‘internment’ (with safeguards) would be the most expedient way of getting them off the streets. Why waste time with this scum? “
Because “internment,” or even “interment lite” gives them too much recognition.
Better they be treated like plain vanilla criminals.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 06:38 PMWhere is Loftholdingswood when you need him? Hopefully not in the Canary Islands buying up all the cheap Ciggies…
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 07:04 PM“Given that the PSNI know who each of the loyalist murderers, pimps, and drug-peddlers are, perhaps a selective form of ‘internment’ (with safeguards) would be the most expedient way of getting them off the streets. Why waste time with this scum? “
Amen to that The Dubliner - or at the very least any out on license should be returned to jail pending decommissioning.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 07:45 PMDread Cthulhu,
I have no issue with your post and sadly it is true. The only bit I would disagree with is “respect”. Its is more likely to be power and fear.I also suspect even without firearms these people would be quite effective gangsters. As you say we need them treated as criminals. Unfortunatley as we know here and in all coutries getting evidence to lock these sort of people up is difficult, not that that is an argument for internment.
Cruimh,
I agree about license but as we all know it is really difficult to prove etc.Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:10 PM“Where is Loftholdingswood when you need him? Hopefully not in the Canary Islands buying up all the cheap Ciggies…”
No holidays for me I’m afraid, can’t afford one!.
The statement speaks for itself really. Better a verbal pre-emptive strike than a physical one surely? I hate the term ‘mainstream’ but it seems to have entered the vocabulary recently when discussing the UDA. The vast majority of all UDA members want to move this whole process forward through the Conflict Transformation Initiative (CTI). I applaud all the efforts undertaken during the lead up to the 11th and 12th of July to make it the quietest period in a very long time and put this down to both the efforts of CTI workers and community leaders and also community leaders on the respective other side. And yet we find little mention of this in the aftermath of the holiday period, just a retreading of the current internal dispute that will end shortly (without recourse to violence).
Hope everyone has had a nice holiday period.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:19 PMTurgon: “I have no issue with your post and sadly it is true. The only bit I would disagree with is “respect”. Its is more likely to be power and fear.”
Perhaps “respect” is an awkward word—I respect the UDA the same way I respect a rattlesnake or scorpion—loathsome creatures best given a wide berth whenever possible.
Turgon: “I also suspect even without firearms these people would be quite effective gangsters.”
Probably, but perhaps the advantage in armament would be what it would take to give the police the courage to do their jobs and arrest these hoods.
Turgon: “As you say we need them treated as criminals. Unfortunatley as we know here and in all coutries getting evidence to lock these sort of people up is difficult, not that that is an argument for internment.”
All that is really needed is a willingness to pressure the component parts. The Mafia in the US was nearly untouchable… right up until the US government made it a priority. Admittedly, the Mafia helped on a couple fronts—fraticidal conflicts, drug dealing and a few public follies. The UDA would appear to be slouching down the same path.
Ultimately, the PSNI / Prosecution Service need individuals with sufficient courage and will to handle the dirty work of breaking down and dismantling these organizations. The US never resorted to internment to deal with the Mafia.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:28 PMi would give my left nut for a charismatic WORKING CLASS representative for the so-called protestant/loyalist/unionist community. now that there is no IRA to fight, an established government in the north, and an agreement on the place of the six counties as part of the UK, this community needs leadership that will worry about their living conditions, crime, health system, education etc. etc… Loyalist thugs that once ‘protected’ their community, religious zealots that demonize sections of our community, and rich unionist parties that wouldn’t be caught dead in our ghettos if it weren’t for a vote, should be cast aside. The vacuum created by the absence of such leadership is what allows the UDA etc. to continue to exist. They are from the same community and were at one time, for right or wrong, accepted as a political voice. They are no longer relavent and should be dealt with as such by their community and the police.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:29 PMLHW: “Better a verbal pre-emptive strike than a physical one surely?”
Ah, the prodigial apologist returns, putting a smiling face upon a thuggish threat.
LHW: “The vast majority of all UDA members want to move this whole process forward through the Conflict Transformation Initiative (CTI).”
Still looking to belly up to the public trough, eh?
LHW: “And yet we find little mention of this in the aftermath of the holiday period, just a retreading of the current internal dispute that will end shortly (without recourse to violence). “
If that is truly your belief, why would they bother with the threat, LHW? If they haven’t the will to back their words with deeds, it’s just empty noise—better to have said nothing that a bluff they’re unwilling to fill.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:33 PMFitzy
Great comments and straight to the point, if only more Unionists(I’m assuming here) could be so open. What about yourself for the job?
>>No holidays for me I’m afraid, can’t afford one!.<<
LOL Look who missed out on the Danegeld, you’d best grab your share whilst it’s going Lofty, prudence Brown will be tightening the purse strings soon enough now that Tony has exited stage left. If it’s any consolation no holiday for me and mine this year either, the cost of buying a house big enough to fit my squad in has near bled me white.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:35 PM“I agree about license but as we all know it is really difficult to prove etc. “
Nothing needs to be proven - license can be revoked.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:37 PM“Ah, the prodigial apologist returns, putting a smiling face upon a thuggish threat.”
This has been dealt with before. I am not an apologist because I support every policy and action that the UDA is currently undertaking. And you spelt prodigal incorrectly.
Prince,
Don’t even own a house, it’s the good old working class Housing Executive gaff for me.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:40 PMI think it would probably be a good idea to post a reminder of A C Grayling’s previously noted guide to civil argument
In debates that crucially affect the wellbeing of the world, ideas and beliefs should be open to tough challenge and hard discussion. Let someone state a view, and let the view be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, no holds barred, and no pleas of offence, hurt feelings, self-proclaimed sensitivities, “sacredness” or any other excuse allowed to stand in the way. But with a strictly governed exception, namely, an office-holder speaking ex-officio, let no individual be the target of attack, and even then neither abuse nor ad hominem attack.
There is no excuse for ill manners and insults, though of course there is an explanation: usually, the impotence and weakness of the insulter and his or her case. Insult an idea or an institution, by all means, if you have serious grounds to do so; but not individuals: that is the bottom line.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:42 PMDread Cthulhu,
This is disturbing but I agree entriely. I am sure I can attack you on something soon.Prince Eoghan,
I tried to flee to your shores but the intolerant are not welcome and so I am back planning the move to Devenish.
Actually I agree entirely with Fitzy except remember that some of the DUP and UUP are quite good at representing working class interests (not perfect but a site better than the PUP as evidenced by the PUP’s one seat). I always feel that the Prod working class are treated pretty badly by all sides especially the middle class Prods. I know I am an unlikely supporter and I do not want to be seen as condescending but I still remember being shocked and depressed by a report that many boys on the Shankill regarded the height of ambition to become a paramilitary. Sorry if that is hand wringing!Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:49 PMLHW: “This has been dealt with before. I am not an apologist because I support every policy and action that the UDA is currently undertaking. And you spelt prodigal incorrectly. “
Egads—a typo! Horrors!! Shock and dismay!!
The UDA is a collection of unreconstructed drug-dealing, money extorting sectarian hoods, full stop. All your spin and happy words does not change any of the above. Now, the allegedly “good” (read “bad") UDA has issued a threat against the “bad” (read “worse") UDA. Strangely enough, their threat is, in the main, in the form of an extortionate threat—do what we want, or risk the consequences. I guess old habits die hard for some… Your “isn’t it better that they’re verbally threatening” makes mockery of the notion that Northern Ireland is part of the civilized world—in most places, such words from band of hoods to another band of hoods would be recognized for what it was, a run-of-the-mill threat.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:55 PMTurgon: “This is disturbing but I agree entriely. I am sure I can attack you on something soon. “
Don’t rush on my account… :)
Turgon: “I know I am an unlikely supporter and I do not want to be seen as condescending but I still remember being shocked and depressed by a report that many boys on the Shankill regarded the height of ambition to become a paramilitary.”
It’s not and you’ve nothing to apologize for… Sadly, wanting to be a gangster is not unique to Northern Ireland.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 08:58 PMTurgon -
A couple of points....
the number of seats you have doesn’t = the quality of representation.the dup and uup are opportunists. they have certainly been vocal on hun v taig issues, as that’s their bread and butter for winning support… us v them.
when was the last time you saw the dup or uup AS A PARTY stand up and say - no, shout!-… our hospitals are shite, crime rates are far too high, crime is far too high because the programs and opportunities for educational and occupational advancement are shite.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 09:00 PMFitzy,
Very fair point.
I was sad that Iris Robinson who seemed to know something about health and may actually have cared (yes that is probably naive) did not get health. The one time I asked a politician about health was Paul Berry and it may not suprise you that even though he was on the health committee he seemed to have little clue (that does say more about him than the DUP in fairness). I think a thread on the number of hospitals and or trusts etc would be quite interesting.I also have concerns about schooling. I am no expert but I fear the 11+ seems to benefit the middle classes and disproportionally harms the Prod working class. I do not pretend to know the answer and I agree there is little sign our polticians do either.
Posted by on Jul 17, 2007 @ 09:08 PM
