Thursday, March 20, 2008
Gerry Must Go
So sez Squinter, 20 years on, Gerry must face the truth:
“Adams has been the West Belfast MP for 20 years.
If a week is a long time in politics, then 20 years is the Upper Paleolithic Age. It is in that same 20-year period that the slow, steady decline into chaos in certain parts of West Belfast began, and it was on his watch that it has gathered pace to become the runaway train that it is today.
...there are many people and many agencies to blame for the state of the lower Falls ... But while Adams can and does point the finger at some or even all of the above, Squinter has to say that he has never heard Adams accepting any responsibility for the fact that large parts of his constituency are no-go areas ...
Who’s to blame for the failure to press home the Harry Holland momentum? Gerry Adams is to blame, that’s who.
Gerry Adams is the MP, has been for 20 years. He’s supposed to know how to marshal and direct; he’s supposed to give us the ideas and the leadership; he’s supposed to make things better. When he asks for and gets our votes he accepts a host of very onerous responsibilities, and the most basic of those responsibilities is to make his constituency a good place for decent people to live and for parents to bring up their families. In that he has failed terribly.”
“It wasn’t as if Adams didn’t have the clout and the contacts. A former aide of Tony Blair has been making frankly embarrassing revelations in a new book about how close Adams and Blair were. Adams was the Oprah Winfrey of Irish-America. And what did we get? InBev gone and Visteon going. A huge investment conference that holds its nose as it swishes past West Belfast ferrying ministers and Invest NI suits to Hillsborough and Cultra. Adams might have got away with pointing to the lack of investment in his constituency in 1983 and saying: “Nothing to do with me, mate.” 20 years on and you’d buy a house in Ross Street quicker than you’d buy that.
20 years. Two decades. Four parliamentary terms. Four US Presidents. Two Popes. 11 Secretaries of State. Five UN Secretary-Generals. Five Taoisigh. Five Prime Ministers. In Ross Street the wind of change blows in empty Budweiser boxes and despair; it blows out good people and hope.”
Rusty Nail @ 11:41 AM
DO
</i>As I pointed out the Shankill is the most deprived area in Northern Ireland. Fact. </i>
Not in the report
you referred to.Getting voted in as an MLA or MP in West Belfast is the political equivalent of a free-lunch. All you have to do it seems is turn up and make some pro-Republican noises and you’re a shoe-in for the seat - afterwards you can sit on your backside wondering what to do with your fat pay-cheque, courtesy of HM Government in London, for the next 4 years until re-election time comes round without a worry in the world.
Replace ‘Republican’ with ‘Unionist’ and the difference is? Well, one difference is that they don’t appear to spend most of their time doing constituency work for one particular constituent anyway. And whilst you can pull SF MPs for a few things, pocketing MP/MLA wagees is not one of them.
If I happened to be a successful businessman why would I want to invest in an area run by ex-cons? Especially if I was a British businessman and those ex-cons happened to be ex-IRA?
Didn’t stop Tescos now, did it? And if our economic future depends on British businessmen investing here, you might as well switch off the lights now.
In general they’re a fairly useless shower too but at least they bother to represent their electorate in the Houses of Parliament.
Yes, because that makes so much difference. St Andrews etc are just sideshows to the real meet of PM’s question time.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:24 PManonymous
Gerry & the Shinners shouldn’t be held to a higher standard for community crime / societal ills (and in this case a murder) than any other party representing an inner city constituency.
West Belfast is not just any inner city constituency. Even in Belfast itself it sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of its problems. Since Gerry and co successfully made large parts of West Belfast a no-go area for police for 35 years then is it any surprise when Gerry welcomes them back with begrudgingly, semi-open arms that it has little or no effect on curbing the crime-rate? The police are not just going to flood back into an area which only a few years previously would have been akin to a WWI soldier ambling out onto no-man’s land during the battle of the Somme. The policing experience in West Belfast for the most part of the past 40 years has been one of duck, cover and drive back to the fortified base in the fortified meat-wagon as quickly as possible before you get lynched. The presence of a ‘bobby on the beat’ so to speak is a fairly new phenomenon.
The fact that West Belfast is fairly lawless in parts is primarily down to Sinn Fein and no-one else. For 40 odd years kids would have been scared to sneeze out of turn or risk getting kneecapped by the Provos. With an absence of anything more than a skeleton police presence the IRA were the law. You also had the huge army presence. Remove the IRA and remove the army, as has thankfully been done on both counts, you remove any perceived threat to doing what you want, when you want to. There are no boundaries to limit the behaviour of thugs in the area and until Sinn Fein openly and sincerely demand the police to come and serve the community instead of treating them as a necessary evil of the peace dividend then things are not going to change a jot.
Added to this, surely when the apparent moral pillars of a community are ex-paramilitaries, be they IRA or UDA, then with the examples they’ve set is it any surprise these areas are victims of a social demise? People in West Belfast have to ask themselves what do they want? Continued lip-service to a United Ireland, equality and a socialist agenda with very substance to back it up or better housing, policing, education and jobs, which would be more attainable by voting for any party other than SF.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:38 PMInteresting article from ‘squinter’ ... is that the pitter patter of republican steel toe capped boots into the active IRA’s we are hearing?
It really is only a matter of time ...
The more these communitites are gripped by the ravages of cocaine, heroin and eventually crack (wasn’t yer man described as being totally off his head) I’m guessing the less republican activists are going to be bound by idealistic notions of an honourable peace and a grey haired quiet life.
Here is hoping that many more of them are wondering why they left it for so long !!
Fuiseog
Ps Pass the vomit bucket as the SF Crown ministers exploit yet another ex-prisioner’s untimely funneral.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:41 PMGarbaldy
You are often correct in your posts, but on this I believe you are way off the mark, to blame the provisionals for the shortcomings of the northern state is just plain wrong , they may not have helped at time but they are not to blame. You talk about the police as if the PSNI in Belfast is the same as the Dublin force. It is not, it is still a highly political police force that a large percentage of catholics have little confidence in. We are still way off the 50/50 etc or whatever the numbers are. Why should Irish people trust a police force that is commanded etc from London and has a history like the RUC/PSNI?
“Who is to blame for that? A lot of people. The criminals for being criminals, the judicial system for not imposing tough sentences,”
That sentences in the UK are soft is a complete illusion and far from the truth, indeed one of the main reason we have a higher crime rate than elsewhere in Western Europe is partially due to the fact we send more people to prison.
What some people here are demanding is a return to Dickensian days, when our [WC] children were sent to prison in great numbers. We already lock up far to many kids, now you want more. Locking children up will not solve the over all problem of criminality, otherwise there would have been no crime in Dickens day and he would have never written Oliver Twist.
People go on about bad parenting, what do you expect, todays parents in places like West Belfast spent their whole childhoods in a conflict zone. Yet despite this fact most go on to lead decent lives. People who have not, need support, advice, punishing if they do wrong, but in a constructive way, and if there is no alternative confining, but that must be a last resort.
However I say again to lock up children in a knee jerk way is criminal, and all those who have children should take a look at their own kids and think through what they are demanding, for make no mistake there are plenty of politicians out their who will lock your kids up if they can gain a vote by doing so.
I sense a hysteria developing around the issue of street crime and policing, Perhaps it is time we all slowed down and asked a few questions not least why is the hysteria developing now and who does it benefit.
I would suggest the reason Robin, who would never put the black on Gerry in a million years unless he had permission, published his piece was to stoke up hysteria and he seems to have had some success. Why, do I really need to spell it out.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:42 PMAnother Limavady Wan “We’ve had a nationalist-dominated council for several years and the crime rate is soaring. ……Buy the local paper and the only people you see out trying to do anything about it are three or four unionist councillors. “
So crime is a nationalist thing… good to see you’re painting the SDLP with the same brush.... at least your giving equitable treatment to all those criminal nationalists.
“Thanks and apologies again for getting off the topic. “
No, thank you for being so openly sectarian and no need to apologise for insulting almost half the population of NI.
Pray tell was Limavady always a peaceful, tranquil place until those criminal nationalists became the slim majority in the Borough Council? In this decade the town made the news for forcing Rev Armstrong from his home for saying un supportive things about the Orange Order. In 1997 Limavady welcomed the unwelcome Derry City Orange parades. In the early 1990’s, Limavady Councillors were surcharged after a Fair Employment Tribunal held they had not followed their own legal advice? So, when was the golden era of Dog’s Leap town?
Garibaldy: no, of course you didn’t answer my questions but you did answer my suspicions.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:42 PM“ *If I happened to be a successful businessman why would I want to invest in an area run by ex-cons? Especially if I was a British businessman and those ex-cons happened to be ex-IRA? *
Didn’t stop Tescos now, did it? And if our economic future depends on British businessmen investing here, you might as well switch off the lights now. “
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/top-100-companies/article1930719.ece
...number 65 out of a 100 doesn’t seem too bad...!??!
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:52 PMPeople who have not, need support, advice, punishing if they do wrong, but in a constructive way, and if there is no alternative confining, but that must be a last resort.
Mick
Whilst I freely admit I don’t wear the “Round up the usual suspects’ cap comfortably, the problem with your last resort is that it can neatly tally with someone’s funeral.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 09:52 PMLurker (apologies if I’m repeating someone elses point as I haven’t read further yet), but I believe it to be a radical ground shift within Sinn Fein. Within it, we have the true followers of GA, and those who went along with it to give it a chance.
When a pro-Sinn Fein paper denounces GA then the guy has more than problems, the knives are out. Like Maggie and many before him, if he doesn’t go he’ll be pushed imv.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 10:04 PMMick I think you are wrong. Whip up hysteria by blackening Gerry to help get policing and justice devolved? Laying the blame at the feet of their own MP among others is hardly an endorsement of Sinn Fein as a party. I might join in Squinters solidarity with the pensioners and not go to vote either, or if viable opposition comes along vote for them.
Your suggestion would need tight engineering - and you know how it goes with the plans of mice and men......
Much too risky.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 10:23 PMAmazing how the author of this piece has so many more fans on Slugger all of a sudden. Mr. Livingstone, whether you agree with this apportioning of blame or not,at least spoke from the heart. He cares passionatley about the way that his community is being torn apart from within by violent scumbags.
As for his new-found advocates and suporters on Slugger, shame on you for your blatant opportunism and callous disregard for the victim of this crime.
The blogger on this site called Pete Baker set an all-time low in terms of how he exploited the death of Mr McGreevy by minimising the scale of the crime because of the victim’s past republican associations.The absence of any form of a censure or an apology from Mick Fealty speaks volumes about today’s Slugger-but as long as you’re up for a Blogging award next year, that’s the main thing-eh, Mick?
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 10:32 PMThe existence of an impartial police force does very little to stem the rising tides of violence experienced throughout the western (and increasingly farther flung reaches of the) world. People today have little that binds them together politically or in a community sense. I remember talking to a friend some years ago from Barnsley who remarked on the changes in the town post the pit closures. The increased use of drugs, street violence and the ease in which a once politicised people were rendered stangers to one another left him saddened and disilusioned about a community in which he was once left in high regard. Democracy is only vital when it is local and has power, whether this is granted by statute or taken appears to make little difference.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 10:58 PMMick,
Didn’t think I was blaming the Provos for the shortcomings of the state. What I was trying to do was explain in what senses the relationship of Gery Adams and his party and his constituents is different than say the Tories or Labour, or Lib Dems to theirs. It is a reflection of PSF’s success in building a wide-ranging machine that they are so influential, and that people look to them for leadership above and beyond others. There is nothing comparable to it anywhere on these islands. But it seems to me that leadership is lacking in certain areas, and there is a fairly widespread feeling that crime and anti-social behaviour is one of them.
Anonymous, what suspicions have I confirmed? Let me know and I’ll tell you if you’re confirmation is accurate or not.
Posted by on Mar 20, 2008 @ 11:18 PMGood jobs make good neighbours. No serious investment in proper jobs (peace dividend?) leads to breakdown. Community-upper-urban tactical-focused-lower-resource-action-development-committee-groups of the people, armed to the teeth with clip boards, aren’t worth a damn! The people of the Falls and Shankill need serious jobs.
In the short term how about the district plods should be able to arrest and administer pre-set painfully high bail amounts on the spot to these scummers for set offences: no pay, no release till court (with sanctions on the cops for abuse of priviledge of course).It may disproportionately effect the poorest scummers but I don’t doubt the ordinary punters would love it.Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 01:08 AMHi anonymous.
You wrote: “So crime is a nationalist thing… good to see you’re painting the SDLP with the same brush.... at least your giving equitable treatment to all those criminal nationalists.”
And then you wrote:
“No, thank you for being so openly sectarian and no need to apologise for insulting almost half the population of NI.”
I actually wrote this next bit: “If I were to vote at all it really wouldnt be along my community’s lines after the past year.”
If you read it again you’d see i wasnt being “openly sectarian.” Or if I was, it was against the people on my own side of the fence. I’m just calling the past year or so as I’ve seen it, as a catholic who lives in Limavady.
You then wrote:
“Pray tell was Limavady always a peaceful, tranquil place until those criminal nationalists became the slim majority in ((CUT)) advice? So, when was the golden era of Dog’s Leap town?”I’m not sure how any of this has anything to do with the rampant anti-social behaviour, arson and murder that the town has experienced over the past year, but if you feel that you need to bring the past thirty years into it as well, I am not going to stand in your way. You seem to have quite a history of the town. Your knowledge of what I was writing about will tell you of course that none of the above issues i was writing about have had any sectarian motive linked to them. The arson is not aimed at any one community BY any one community. The two murders in the past year were drink related, I believe. Most of the crime related to the extreme rise in anti-social behaviour does not have any sectarian motive attached to it either.
I suppose my round-about point was that at this particular time (and i think i took particular care not to attribute any of the issues to sectarian reasons) was that we are seeing very little in terms of civic leadership by those who are supposed to show it. I do believe Anne Brolly was elected into the town ie is a town councillor. She’s nowhere to be seen. Two elderly unionists, one of whom isnt even voted in to the town however are.
An apology for the sectarian remark would be appreciated. I doubt I will get it. Its much easier I am finding out by reading this site to turn everything into a sectarian rant.
anonymous, i certainly will apologise if what i wrote made you automatically think i was a dirty prod. God forbid we’d have any of those about the place…
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 01:20 AMWB suffers no more or no less than other working class parts of the UK or Ireland. The endemic sense of victimhood and entitlement its people do suffer from, means they react in a number of hysterical ways to unfortunate but unremarkable events. SF seek to blame others for feral criminal scum even when they kill their own, their erstwhile cheerleaders (like Squinter) call for the ‘hardmen’ to return, despite lacking the balls to do anything themselves, as was the case with the same cowards during the war.
The rest of us just shrug our shoulders and get on with a much better life since the utter defeat and co-option of the Provos.
In short, WB: if you’re determined to drown in your own filth as evidenced by your recent reactions...chin chin!Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 02:05 AMGerry Adams is a tourist, his speech at Harry’s vigil a bit bizarre, it was as if he had no idea of how things were,
Harry was a good friend of mine, we had that Soho jazz thing in common, we had London in common, we both missed it, that era, he was a leftie free thinker and I was a neo-con subsidy,
Harry was a kosher leftist, he wasn’t a PC fanatic. he wanted boys and girls to have separate toilets. He was tolerant, and safe on the pro-normal issues.
for example, we both thought FARC were girl abducting swine and if we were not careful, SF would possibly make homosexuality obligatory.
As for Gerry.
it was like listening to Senator McCain in Arizona talking about Michigan, one just knew the dude had been to ‘Nam, was up for it, deserved to be viewed as a hero,
but no, too valuable to expose to risk, and Detroit was simply too scary for a personal recce. Maybe, somewhere safer like Iraq, or Kabul, something doable,
Gerry Adams does not seem to know what West Belfast has turned into, it is a wild place.
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 03:15 AMlatcheeco,
Is spot on about jobs, I am all for youngsters staying on at school etc, but some kids are not academic and it is often from this group the anti social elements emerge. This group above all else need jobs training, apprenticeships, for there is absolutely know doubt the devil makes work for idle hands.
If business refuses to take up the slack the politicians must create a system of skill training similar to that which existed in england in the 1960s, when the government set up job training centers that trained thousands of welders carpenters bricklayers HVG drivers etc, whilst paying them above the rate of unemployment benefits.
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 11:46 AMSpirit of O7
I agree it was a well written piece. But my spidey sense tells me all is not as it seems. Atown news is and has always been SF mouthpiece. Does anyone seriously think this was a piece of inspired journalism. Pennies to drop Shore Road resident...i couldnt have put it better myself. Watch SF go all out now to get tough policing. Its what they want, what we want, but sadly, needed another murder to do anything about it.
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 12:27 PMhey, if any of you guys get banned from this site by orange bigot fealty [text removed - mods].we havent gone away, you know
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 12:57 PMHas anyone read the string of bile attacking Squinter and his family on his own site?
Having been a champion for the philosphy that drives such bile for a long time, my sympathy for him is limited, but it is truly shocking in places.
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 01:59 PMUrquhart,
Its hard to escape the conclusion that he said nothing when the thought police came for others and now they are coming for him.Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 02:55 PMPah - if it’s anything like the Andytown text messages page ("Squinter really makes my week!") he’s writing most of them himself.
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 03:04 PMI like the Andytown News text message page, particularly the message this week which reads, “Ginger girls look disgusting”.
Makes you think
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 03:17 PMI actually wrote this next bit: “If I were to vote at all it really wouldnt be along my community’s lines after the past year.”
Therefore it was you who brought the “community lines” or sectarianism breakout of NI into the conversation about Limavadyyou were writing that one side is to blame for the rising crime when you wrote “We’ve had a nationalist-dominated council for several years and the crime rate is soaring.” And you specifically mentioned “the Dungiven clan” ie the Brolly’s as you posted today.
“there’s been not one visible action out of the shinners and indeed the SDLP” you also mentioned the SDLP thus disparaging almost half the elected representative of NI and more than half in Limavady.I know you claim to be nationalist as you wrote “if I were to vote at all it really wouldnt be along my community’s lines after the past year” after slagging off the nationalist representatives and praising the unionist ones so you can shove your “… you automatically think i was a dirty prod. God forbid we’d have any of those about the place… “
“…if you feel that you need to bring the past thirty years into it as well, I am not going to stand in your way. You seem to have quite a history of the town. “
I didn’t think there was a time limit to discussions on this site. I don’t think one should be restricted from including incidents over the last couple of decades when discussing changes in society. I didn’t think that you should be able to make sweeping statements about nationalist representative in co Derry and how they do nothing about crime while I’m not allow to bring past incidents about the area into the discussion to show that Limavady hasn’t exactly been the Garden of Eden prior to nationalist majority on the Borough Council which by implication you claim to be the source of all the towns woes. I’ve no history of the town… wikipedia / google shows the townsfolk don’t feed on milk n honey but my point is they never did feed on that diet!!!!“I suppose my round-about point was that at this particular time (and i think i took particular care not to attribute any of the issues to sectarian reasons) was that we are seeing very little in terms of civic leadership by those who are supposed to show it. I do believe Anne Brolly was elected into the town ie is a town councillor. She’s nowhere to be seen. Two elderly unionists, one of whom isnt even voted in to the town however are. “
Why don’t I believe you? The following is how I read what you wrote: You took time to say the crimes weren’t sectarian but the root cause is because the nationalist councillers especially A. Brolly are to blame in comparison to the old Unionist geezers.“An apology for the sectarian remark would be appreciated. I doubt I will get it. “
No you won’t. Crouched sectarian posts like yours should be disparaged which what I aimed to do… for that I don’t apologise. I’d have more respect for your comments if they came from a Unionist as they’d be seen as coming from a divided society’s viewpoint where daily life can be viewed from one side or the other and little middle ground.Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 03:18 PMaustin “The blogger on this site called Pete Baker set an all-time low in terms of how he exploited the death of Mr McGreevy by minimising the scale of the crime because of the victim’s past republican associations. “
very true Austin, how can any of the law and order advocates on this site not see the irony,… it’s beyond me. The complete lack of respect for the murder victim and minimising the scale of the crime as the dead man was an ex republican prisoner and then they also complain about republican areas (ie W Belfast) having a lack of respect for their own community areas.
Irony leads to hypocracy and hypocracy in NI is a sure fire slippery slope to bigoty
Posted by on Mar 21, 2008 @ 03:30 PM
