Saturday, July 26, 2008
“Gerry Adams is a block to progress”
That’s the view of Northern Ireland First Minister, the DUP’s Peter Robinson. The quote didn’t make it to the BBC report which adds another instead - “Sinn Féin should get on with it and stop dragging their feet.” And DUP MP, and NI Finance Minister, Nigel Dodds joins the fray
Is it a crisis yet? Adds A quick reminder, from March this year - “failure to deliver [policing and justice powers] will seriously damage [the Sinn Féin leadership’s] credibility.”What really bugs Gerry Adams and why we are seeing this sort of childish behaviour from Sinn Fein is due to their frustration at not being able to get their own way over certain issues. When their spokespersons talk about demanding equality it is code for getting their own way. When they talk about lack of engagement, it is because they do not get their own way in meetings. Unfortunately for Sinn Fein, and happily for the Unionist community, the days of Unionists being pushed around or intimidated by Sinn Fein are over. The DUP position on the devolution of policing and justice powers and the provision of Irish Language legislation is perfectly clear. It does no good for Sinn Fein to keep repeating the lie that the DUP signed up to these issues at St Andrews. Sinn Fein need to stop the tantrums, stop holding ordinary people to ransom, and get down to the business of government.
Adds The UTV report carries a fuller quote from Peter Robinson.
“Gerry Adams is a block to progress.
Instead of lecturing the DUP he should stop blocking the transaction of Executive business.
The DUP will not be rolling over for him or any Republican.
Sinn Fein just doesn’t seem to get it.
Progress is made and agreements are reached when both sides are content. Adams seems to think that it is the role of everyone to move to his position.
That just will not happen”
Pete Baker @ 09:47 AM
Slow news day, huh?
A “blistering attack”. Hyping up the ‘story’ just a bit there. Seems like a party leader re-stating for the millionth time his party’s view of the state of play.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 10:07 AMIt suits both parties to have a so-called crisis.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 10:25 AMThe unstoppable force meeting the immovable object
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 10:39 AMI think SF are willing to go back to direct rule with Irish imput as atleast with them SF could talk and work out a compromise
The DUP seem to think just because they are the largest party that they have a majority
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 10:55 AMSo when the Shinners say they want an ‘Ireland of Equals’, what is it they really mean?
Can any Republican explain why it was/is OK to attack the Orange Tradition and culture, while on the other hand seeing the tricolour as your national flag?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:00 AMSurely the DUP can just “smash them”? ah remember those days?!
anyway, this is quite interesting. both parties are trying to make out that the other is holding things back, and both are trying to out muscle eachother in their reactions.
if this is what it is like now what on earth will it be like come election time when we will obviously see the DUP doing things to try to appeal to its hardcore support (which it without a doubt still needs)?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:02 AM#
So when the Shinners say they want an ‘Ireland of Equals’, what is it they really mean?
Can any Republican explain why it was/is OK to attack the Orange Tradition and culture, while on the other hand seeing the tricolour as your national flag?
Posted by Ulsters my homeland on Jul 26, 2008 @ 12:00 PMAnd vice versa.Except unionism doesnt want a fenian about the place, ie a protestant state for a protestant people.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:10 AMWith failure to move on an ILA and other matters i’d be quite happy, indeed i’d push that Sinn Fein should pull down the play parliament and negotiate directly with the two governments.
I’m happy to sit tight to 50%+1, then game over.
Time to pull the rug from under the grubby sectarian feet of Campbell et al.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:12 AM#
So when the Shinners say they want an ‘Ireland of Equals’, what is it they really mean?
Can any Republican explain why it was/is OK to attack the Orange Tradition and culture, while on the other hand seeing the tricolour as your national flag?
Posted by Ulsters my homeland on Jul 26, 2008 @ 12:00 PMHow is the transfer of Policing and Justice, the demand for an Irish Language Act and the issue that actually helps kids on the Shankill road an attack on Orange culture?
Do you not see the irony of throwing the National flag onto your bonfires? Why would you want to burn a symbol representing peace and unity between the two main traditions?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:15 AMIt will be interesting to what shape this ‘crisis’ comes in, since there already is a crisis of sorts: Executive business has already been suspended.
So what will the next phase consist of? A walk out? That’s what Trimble did four times, because his partners in government would not comply with a bilateral promise his was made by Tony Blair.
The auguries for that are not good. Trimble eventually lost his grip on power completely. Luckily for Sinn Fein there is no credible political force waiting to fill its shoes, so I guess they might get away with it without damage. And under direct rule with the Labour government so evidently in hock to the DUP, (and the Tories now aligning directly with the UUP) they would not be dealing with the ‘useful idiot’ that Tony Blair was prepared to be.
But here’s the real puzzler. The issue they are pushing on cannot conceivably be conceded without a substantial quid pro quo for the DUP and/or other parties. I think John O’Dowd in the last politics show of the season suggested that they were only playing the optics on this. It was an ambiguous enough remark, but it does seem to describe a ‘sham fight’ perfectly.
It has the feel of a blame game. But it’s not one I think Sinn Fein can win outright. At the very most it looks like a space holder until there is an end to the bilateral talks with the DUP.
In the meantime, Sinn Fein’s 1969 style ‘Sit Down’ protest inside the Executive creates the optical illusion for its activists that it is holding the DUP to ransom.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:23 AMThis is pure distraction tactics by the DUP - everybody else who matters the Engleze Govt, Irish Govt and SF agree that Police and Justice should be transferred. The DUP are out of step and Grizzly is quite right - no Stormont unless the last bit of the peace process is in place.
It is not in the DUP’s interest to agree to the transfer because this would mean ‘terrorists running the police and courts’ - it will be a measure of the pressure that they are under - that they will agree to this before 2009 and probably before the autumn.
A £10 bet to the first taker that despite DUP bluster as above Robbo throws in the towel on this one before 2009. Any takers?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:25 AMPaul
“How is the transfer of Policing and Justice, the demand for an Irish Language Act and the issue that actually helps kids on the Shankill road an attack on Orange culture?”
No-one said they were. You just made that up. Attacks on parades, halls and their members are attacks on Orange culture, yet the people who participate in attacking the Orange culture also sees the tri-colour as their national flag.
The demand for the Irish Language Act does not coencide with their policy of an ‘Ireland of Equals’
“Do you not see the irony of throwing the National flag onto your bonfires? Why would you want to burn a symbol representing peace and unity between the two main traditions?”
It’s not our flag, LOL
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:29 AMGuys,
Any chance we can talk about what is going on rather than settling the same old scores over and over again?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:32 AMDo you not see the irony of throwing the National flag onto your bonfires? Why would you want to burn a symbol representing peace and unity between the two main traditions?
Do you not grasp the point that despite what you say the flag represents, the people burning it obviously don’t agree?
When people see the self same people who tried to bomb and shoot them for forty years waving that flag, they don’t see it as a symbol of peace and unity.Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:32 AMEven the fact that you call it “the national flag”
Which nation would that be?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:33 AMSammy do you take Zimbabwean dollars?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:33 AMPaul & others
My worry about pulling the plug and JA is that it won’t be local politicians in charge of the affairs in the North; you’ll be run by fairly disinterested parties from London and Dublin.Having cried for local reps for years, we can’t go backwards. What pisses me off, and this is slightly condescending however I’ll say it.
SF and DUP have been shown the way by Blair and Bertie about how to negotiate, ie. have had their hands held etc etc.
Nursed along.
Now they are grown up; we need delivery.
If that means locking them in a room all summer; the people of the North should demand that they do so.
NO foreign holidays until we have measurable progress.And if they can’t agree, get the fuck out of politics, re-elections and yes lets have the SDLP and UUP back, because these two can agree on things.
Being moderates…Its a goddamn privelege to serve at the highest office, throwing rocks at each other does not cut the mustard anymore.
Ulster guy, your comment is a non-starter.
The majority of “thinking” republicans do not seek to attack Orange Culture, instead just ask for a modicum of respect when it comes to parading in contentious areas.
Stop inventing things to get hung up about.If you’re talking about feral youths, then there as many on both sides who are ignorant. ok?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:34 AMI very much doubt that the transfer of policing and justice will take place anytime soon.
The DUP are desperately trying to hold onto their support as it is. If they then went on to transfer policing and justice it could well see the end of them for a long time.
Even the UUP do not think the time is right for policing and justice to devolved. and they are right. When the executive is already in such a mess, and stormont hasnt passed any meaningful legislation its hard to imagine how on earth they would cope with such an important thing as policing and justice.
If the DUP do though decide to rush in and transfer the powers to stormont expect a few high level resignations and the beginning of the end for the DUP
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:41 AMWell I guess K-P warfare is better than bombs and bullets.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:46 AMSteve:
I think SF are willing to go back to direct rule with Irish imput as atleast with them SF could talk and work out a compromise
For a start, SF may be willing to do this, but nobody else is. Why should life stop for everyone because SF are having a tantrum ? If SF want out, then let them out, and let the rest of us get on with running the country.
FWIW, Dublin rule is not in SF’s interests. SF are an electoral challenge (albeit not a very big one) to the parties in the RoI. Have you noticed how Dublin has been largely silent on these latest issues ? They’re happy to allow SF to hoist themselves on their own petard.
The DUP seem to think just because they are the largest party that they have a majority
Actually, that’s pretty much the way everyone sees SF. SF seem to think they have a veto. Well, they don’t. The DUP used to think they had a veto. We soon put a stop to that.
Mick:
Luckily for Sinn Fein there is no credible political force waiting to fill its shoes, so I guess they might get away with it without damage.
While it is right not to underestimate Sinn Fein’s electoral resilience, I think it might be going too far to believe that they cannot suffer from their mistakes. The Margaret Ritchie/loyalist funding issue showed that they were out of touch with their own electorate; who is to say that they’re not out of touch here as well ? By presenting the devolution of policing and justice as the ultimate solution to the anti-social and criminal problems in West Belfast and elsewhere, which is what they are doing right now, they are setting themselves up for a major fall. If they walk out of the executive they run the risk of being painted with the same intransigent label that was used to admonish Trimble. Robinson will say that all of the issues were on the table and SF walked away. I am not convinced that SF will be able to spin that into a victory.
The “Squinter” matter a few months ago showed that there were dangerous rumblings coming from the grassroots. I don’t think all is well at Connolly House.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:47 AMPaul,
“a symbol representing peace and unity between the two main traditions?”
indeed, I am that was in the thoughts of those pensioners and children slaughtered by the IRA under this “flag of peace and unity”
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:47 AMSammy,
I don’t do bets on Slugger. But I have held cheques for people and confirmed when they have made it to the designated charity. If you can get any takers on that, I’d be happy to do so again.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:47 AMTAF
You’re a sensible guy
Please can you explain to me this:Even if there was P&J;, ILA, everything in fact SF seeks, oh and lets add a tri-colour leprechaun drinks/food outlet in every town in Ulster.
Right! Breathe slowUnionists would still have the Union.
Unionists would still have the Union.
Unionists would still have the Union.Which can only be done away with by the triple lock of 1) referenda 2) ratified in Stormont 3) ratified in Westminster.
So what is the effin problem?
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:48 AMFair play to Adams. The DUP need the NI Assembly more than Sinn Fein does. Adams tactics make Robinson look weak in his desperate attempt to cling to the big job that he has waited so long on.
If the Assembly fell tomorrow, I couldn’t care less.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:51 AMCS,
I wouldn’t underestimate the damage on the party’s credibility. My point is more that there is no one yet in a position to take advantage of that damage.
Nationalist politics is a deeply uncompetitive space at the moment. As the Unionist space has been. Although that may be about to change.
Posted by on Jul 26, 2008 @ 11:52 AM
